Building oak front door - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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So far this is the plan...

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post #22 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post
Hey Steve I'm usually the one doing everything myself so this is my advise. There seams to be a trend on this thread that is uncommon around here. Even the hardest head or most determined person could see this if they took a step back and looked again.

Is the chase more exciting than the catch? Maybe it's just the challenge. Trial and error can be a great educator. What I'll offer in defense of my dribble is just look at some of the great woodworking done hundreds of years ago, without the plug in machinery, and carbide this and that.

Just check out some of the doors on churches in Rome that were done several hundred years ago. No Grizzly, no Rockler, no Woodcraft.

Without trying...you'll never know.






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post #23 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 01:55 PM
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Richard well said

I think the key to this whole thread which was finally posted, was that Steve is having a "Master Woodworker" help him on this and that makes a big difference. I didn't know that Norm took on outside work!
Sound like he's got things under control, and that's a wonderful thing. We'll look forward to the step by step pix. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #24 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 06:17 PM
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Steve: Tho it wasn't said outright Wood is correct on the 3 hp shaper that tiny Jet 1.5 is NOT anywhere near what you need. Nice little machine more like a router table on some steroids.
You keep saying Oak but not what type; DO NOT USE RED OAK!!!!!!!!
White Oak is the only oak I know of that can stand exterior use.
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post #25 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 07:33 PM
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Steve check this out

Here's a door my buddy Doug made with an arched top window.
Just for visually getting a picture of what the door will look like, make a mock up with card board or tape on a thin piece of ply to get the proportions right. Usually the bottom rail of a door is an inch or so wider than all the rest to give it a good visual base. I would avoid a strong horizontal rail since it breaks up the door visually into 2 parts, rather than one flowing vertical unit. My opinions are based on 40 years as an Industrial Designer for General Motors and a few years as a Design Intructor at the University of Illinois, College of Fine Art. But they are just my opinions. We always made mock-ups before going to production, whether they were appliances or clay models of vehicles. It's the only way to see the proportions and make changes. bill
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #26 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 09:23 PM
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hobbiest built exterior doors

I liked Cabinetmans comments about doors in Rome. The Pantheon has 2000 year old doors and they swing easily on their original bronze hinges. My grandfather did beautiful woodwork and did not have one power tool.

I built exterior doors for my condo our of solid Honduras mahogany. Six years and no warping but the sun has bleached the finish. Used only a router for the mortices and a radial arm saw to cut the tenons. I had the lumber yard rip the boards to width. Two years ago I did a matching inside door and added a table saw to make the raised panels. Both sets of doors are performing well with no warping.

The 100 year old building was originally a one family, then a nursing home, then 16 rental apts and now 7 condos. Along the way the original doors went missing and were replaced with aluminum. If the pictures don't show, please explain how to attach.
Joe
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post #27 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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thanks, that helps... I was drawing it to scale to see how it would look... but your saying I should do a life size model?
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post #28 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zircon View Post
I liked Cabinetmans comments about doors in Rome. The Pantheon has 2000 year old doors and they swing easily on their original bronze hinges. My grandfather did beautiful woodwork and did not have one power tool.

I built exterior doors for my condo our of solid Honduras mahogany. Six years and no warping but the sun has bleached the finish. Used only a router for the mortices and a radial arm saw to cut the tenons. I had the lumber yard rip the boards to width. Two years ago I did a matching inside door and added a table saw to make the raised panels. Both sets of doors are performing well with no warping.

The 100 year old building was originally a one family, then a nursing home, then 16 rental apts and now 7 condos. Along the way the original doors went missing and were replaced with aluminum. If the pictures don't show, please explain how to attach.
Joe
Go to the top left of the screen to "woodworking photos", go in there create an album and add photos then copy the address to your post. Welcome!
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post #29 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 09:42 PM
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Without a doubt

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thanks, that helps... I was drawing it to scale to see how it would look... but your saying I should do a life size model?
Always go full size when making your first attempt at a project if possible. You will learn a lot about the design and it's proportions.
You don't need to be fancy just some cardboard or 1/4" plywood strips ripped to the widths you intend to use. It'll cost you one sheet of ply, not so much. Cheaper is cardboard taped together or just use painters tape to mark out the verticals and horizontals.
All the post referring to ancient doors leave out the fact that they probably had 1/4" gaps at the edges to allow for swing and gave little if any thought to energy saving or air infiltration. It doesn't snow in Rome very often. Also I understand that Honduras mahogany is very difficult to get these days and expensive when you can find it. It is one of the best woods for doors BTW. White oak is preferred as was posted. There are woods available now that don't routinely come to mind at first, one of which is ipe. It is a version of Brazilian walnut as I understand it and very weatherproof. I'm not that knowledgable about various wood species these day, but shortages of certain woods have prompted the use of substitutes that can be imported reasonably. Others may be albe to help out here. bill
FYI here's a link on ipe:
http://www.ipedepot.com/

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 08-01-2009 at 09:51 PM.
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post #30 of 128 Old 08-01-2009, 09:55 PM
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Beautiful work Zircon

I think also that by using a table saw for the raised panels greatly siplifies the project and reduces the cost of cutters. I assume that you rabbetted for the panels or dadoed them in loose? bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #31 of 128 Old 08-02-2009, 09:57 AM
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Good luck with the door Steve. Hey, you never know until you try. Looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Gerry
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post #32 of 128 Old 08-03-2009, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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What is the best available wood for building exterior doors?
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post #33 of 128 Old 08-03-2009, 08:09 AM
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What is the best available wood for building exterior doors?

My favorites are Honduras Mahogany and White Oak in that order. What is "best available" depends on where you buy and your budget. For common lumber grades, SYP (Southern Yellow Pine) and clear Douglas Fir would work (Fir would likely be the least expensive). If the entry is protected from direct weather, there are other woods that could be considered.

For whatever you use, proper fabrication, finishing, installation, and maintenance will determine its life.







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post #34 of 128 Old 08-03-2009, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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We're picking up the white oak today, is there a best kind of cut lumber? Like quarter sawn? Or does it matter? Thanks!
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post #35 of 128 Old 08-03-2009, 10:44 AM
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We're picking up the white oak today, is there a best kind of cut lumber? Like quarter sawn? Or does it matter? Thanks!

If you can get quarter sawn I would prefer it for nothing else but the grain pattern. But, besides just the looks, it's stronger, and less likely to warp, check or split.






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post #36 of 128 Old 08-04-2009, 01:19 PM
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Another way to construct a door

Would be to use through "tenons" actually a laminated build up of stock of uniform thickness for the center section. The top and bottom sections could be thinner if desirable. I would make all joints extend beyond the final dimension, then cut to size when all epoxy has cured. Dowels could add detail but are not structurally required through the laps. Profiles could be milled on the top and bottom section to accept panels or dadoes. I never done this, but don't see any problems. whatever wood moves in it's length will still have to move on the horizontals(not significant) and width movement would still be minimal because of the laminations. It would look "cool" from the edge. Probably too late if you already started however. bill
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #37 of 128 Old 08-04-2009, 02:52 PM
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Would be to use through "tenons" actually a laminated build up of stock of uniform thickness for the center section. The top and bottom sections could be thinner if desirable. I would make all joints
extend beyond the final dimension, then cut to size when all epoxy has cured. Dowels could add detail but are not structurally required through the laps. Profiles could be milled on the top and bottom section to accept panels or dadoes. I never done this, but don't see any problems. whatever wood moves in it's length will still have to move on the horizontals(not significant) and width movement would still be minimal because of the laminations. It would look "cool" from the edge. Probably too late if you already started however. bill

There ya go again Bill, thinkin'. I see a few problems with that idea which entail machining for profiling and the C&S. As in a regular R&S setup, the rails would be solitary members. In assembly, with multiple lams separately, installing the panels would eliminate the ability to get clamps on the rail(s).

Hinge and hardware placement may fall on lam joints. Structurally, the door may be more rigid due to the laminations, but I would prefer not to see the seams. Whaddya think?






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post #38 of 128 Old 08-04-2009, 05:05 PM
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Whaddya think?

I think the glue up would be a nightmare! You're right about the seams showing on the interior edges, but some thin molding strips could cover them, just use mitered corners. In fact, maybe the panels could be held in place by moldings on both sides eliminating the need for dados and large cutter heads on the shaper. I wouldn't mind the door edge showing the joinery, kinda cool, like I said.
I was just tryin' to come up with a way our OP, steve didn't have shell out a lot of money on equipment, and still end up with a quality door that wouldn't warp.
Maybe someone who needs a door would try it this way and post the results. My door maker buddy, Doug, approved of the method, and has used it. He did say use epoxy however. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #39 of 128 Old 08-04-2009, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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We picked up the white oak today, $555 of wood! Now I just need to start joining, planing and ripping it up!
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post #40 of 128 Old 08-04-2009, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Would there be any reason I couldn't use this with a 3hp router to make the door?
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