Bread board ends - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 Old 08-08-2015, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
View joedain's Photo Album My Photos
Bread board ends

I was wondering if it is or is not a good practice to attach a bread board end with dowels.

The wood is pine that is about 70 years old and about 2.5 inches thick. I want to put about 3/4 inch dowels to hold the breadboard end on.

Is this an OK idea, and how far into the actual table and end should they go?
joedain is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to joedain For This Useful Post:
Chrisayrescarpentry (08-12-2015)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 08-08-2015, 05:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,061
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
You can use dowels to attach the breadboard end but you should elongate the hole through the tenon. Otherwise with shrinkage the top may split.
Steve Neul is online now  
post #3 of 11 Old 08-08-2015, 07:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,043
View Masterjer's Photo Album My Photos
Steve, I think the OP is thinking of using dowels in the traditional doweling sense of spanning across a butt joint between the table top and the breadboard ends.

To the OP, Steve was assuming the you would be cutting a lengthy mortise in the end and a tenon on the table top to fit into the mortise. The usual way of using dowels in this sense is to then drill a hole from the top of the breadboard end, down through the tenon and then use a dowel to pin the mortise and tenon joint together.

The thing to be careful of is that since wood moves primarily across the grain, you will need a joint that allows the table top to move seasonally without constricting it with the breadboard end.
Masterjer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 Old 08-09-2015, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
View joedain's Photo Album My Photos
Dowel Join

I was thinking of something like this image in the link below.

http://www.dowelmax.com/images/refer...tem4-large.jpg

Would that joint be OK?

Do you think the wood would expand/contract that much since its so old?
joedain is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 08-09-2015, 01:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,061
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedain View Post
I was thinking of something like this image in the link below.

http://www.dowelmax.com/images/refer...tem4-large.jpg

Would that joint be OK?

Do you think the wood would expand/contract that much since its so old?
No, you can't do that. I assumed you meant using the dowels to pin the tenons in a mortice and tennon joint. It doesn't matter how old the wood is, it will expand and contract with the changing weather.

When you put a piece of wood across the end of another with the grain running in a perpendicular direction it doesn't allow the main part of the panel to shrink. By doweling like you have shown when the top shrinks it will crack in multiple places. Even with a mortise and tenon joint you only glue the middle and let the rest float.

The breadboard should be made like this illustration.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Steve Neul; 08-09-2015 at 01:09 PM.
Steve Neul is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve Neul For This Useful Post:
MEP1 (08-21-2015)
post #6 of 11 Old 08-09-2015, 01:30 PM
Wood-a-holic
 
wericha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: North Texas
Posts: 517
View wericha's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedain View Post
I was thinking of something like this image in the link below.

http://www.dowelmax.com/images/refer...tem4-large.jpg

Would that joint be OK?

Do you think the wood would expand/contract that much since its so old?
Wood that old has "stabilized" to some degree, but is still subject to expansion and contraction. Temperature and humidity changes are the culprit, not the age of the wood.

The tools don't make the craftsman......a true statement often overused by individuals who haven't a clue about quality tools or true craftsmanship.
wericha is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 08-10-2015, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
View joedain's Photo Album My Photos
Ends

Thanks for the tips. I have read lots about it, but I dont have the tools to make a correct tenon like you have shown.

I will have to figure something else out.

Thanks,

Joe
joedain is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 08-11-2015, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
View joedain's Photo Album My Photos
Needed or not needed

Do you guys think that bread board ends would be needed in my case?

Im just thinking about the age of the wood.
joedain is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 08-11-2015, 12:23 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,061
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedain View Post
Do you guys think that bread board ends would be needed in my case?

Im just thinking about the age of the wood.
Usually a breadboard end is more decorative than functional. In the event the wood in the table would cup warp the breadboard end would help prevent it. If you mount the top with sufficient table top clips that should be sufficient. http://www.rockler.com/table-top-fasteners You just run a dado in the table skirt or cut slots with a biscuit cutter to insert the clips.
Steve Neul is online now  
post #10 of 11 Old 08-18-2015, 12:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 2,993
View TimPa's Photo Album My Photos
bread board ends are a cross grain situation. any changes in climate will manifest in the bread board ends not aligning with the table edge. wood that old is more stable, however it can still move.

not a fan. imho.
TimPa is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 08-21-2015, 08:07 AM
Carpenter & Joiner
 
Develin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 254
View Develin's Photo Album My Photos
I use the same method as steve showed in the illustration. While it is decorative the breadboard end can also serve to pin laminated table tops together increasing the the life of the table. Unless it is for a breadboard or chopping board I would drawbore the m&t.

wiltshirebuildingmaintenance.co.uk
Develin is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome