Book Matched Wood Separating at Seam - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By JohnGi
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 Old 12-02-2019, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1
View dpierce988's Photo Album My Photos
Book Matched Wood Separating at Seam

Good Evening everyone,

I am new to the forum and consider myself a novice in wood working skills. I have made a few coffee tables using live edge slabs and have created some and sold some. Recently, my wife and I had someone book match two live edge slabs of maple together for a dining room table top. We planned on sanding, finishing, and building the legs for the table. I have basic tools and some space for most of my wood work but since we were going to be working with some hefty pieces of wood, we decided to have someone else do the book matching. The wood has been air dried for some time before the two live edge pieces were joined. We picked up the table top about 2 weeks ago and went on a vacation. We got back today and I noticed that entire seam of the book match has separated. There are two boards on the bottom that are screwed in that are keeping the pieces together. We were told that it was joined with high performance wood glue. I am at a loss of what to do now. There is some significant separation at the seam and it goes at the way through to the under side of the slabs. At first, I was thinking about cleaning out the separated glue and epoxying the entire seam (which I have done with smaller cracks in the past) but I feel like we would be using a ton of epoxy. Does it make sense to separate the pieces and rejoin the two slabs? I have never used butterflies, domino's, or biscuit joining. Re-gluing or epoxying is about as comfortable as I am at this point.

Name:  27584.jpeg
Views: 25
Size:  57.6 KB

Name:  27585.jpeg
Views: 26
Size:  52.0 KB

Last edited by difalkner; 12-03-2019 at 12:06 AM. Reason: show photos
dpierce988 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 12-02-2019, 10:09 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 26
View JohnGi's Photo Album My Photos
The wood dried and shrank. Wood dries more quickly out the ends since the cell structure of a tree is basically intended to transmit water lengthwise. The centers of the two planks were not as dry as the ends, and the glued up assembly separated at the center as they shrank. If the glue line is stronger than the wood, and most good glue lines are, the wood itself will crack. You could fill the crack; but if the wood is not done drying, it will just crack some more.

It is striking looking wood. It needs to dry before you can do anything with it. The old rule of thumb for air drying is 1 year per inch of thickness. It is a good place to start for most woods in most climates. Someone with a moisture meter might be able to tell you more accurately.
JLG likes this.
JohnGi is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 12-02-2019, 10:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 668
View Terry Q's Photo Album My Photos
What do the two boards “that are screwed” on look like? Send a picture.

If the two boards are running perpendicular to the slabs, then that is why it cracked.
Terry Q is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 12-02-2019, 10:27 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,951
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
The joint needs to be redone

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpierce988 View Post
Good Evening everyone,

I am new to the forum and consider myself a novice in wood working skills. I have made a few coffee tables using live edge slabs and have created some and sold some. Recently, my wife and I had someone book match two live edge slabs of maple together for a dining room table top. We planned on sanding, finishing, and building the legs for the table. I have basic tools and some space for most of my wood work but since we were going to be working with some hefty pieces of wood, we decided to have someone else do the book matching. The wood has been air dried for some time before the two live edge pieces were joined. We picked up the table top about 2 weeks ago and went on a vacation. We got back today and I noticed that entire seam of the book match has separated. There are two boards on the bottom that are screwed in that are keeping the pieces together. We were told that it was joined with high performance wood glue. I am at a loss of what to do now. There is some significant separation at the seam and it goes at the way through to the under side of the slabs. At first, I was thinking about cleaning out the separated glue and epoxying the entire seam (which I have done with smaller cracks in the past) but I feel like we would be using a ton of epoxy. Does it make sense to separate the pieces and rejoin the two slabs? I have never used butterflies, domino's, or biscuit joining. Re-gluing or epoxying is about as comfortable as I am at this point.



What I would do is run a circular saw down the seam using a straight edge to guide it. This will make certain that both edges are parallel to one another and on a large slab project, that is critical. The two boards that are screwed up into the bottom are an issue. They may/will prevent the wood from expanding or contracting, UNLESS the screw holes are elongated, a common practice for large glued up slabs. Leave them on until the seam is cleaned up. Them remove them and attach them correctly.

Once the seam is cleaned up you can reglue the slabs with Titebond 2 or 3, but make certain the slabs are flush across on top. Some cauls will keep them properly aligned. https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011...great-glue-ups

This is getting a little beyond "novice" skill levels, but not impossible. We are here to offer advice when needed. You may need to purchase clamps, ratchet straps or cauls. Your other choice is to get the "someone" you paid to do this, to do it over correctly.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-02-2019 at 10:32 PM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 12-03-2019, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 445
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
the wood definitely needs more drying time, you can see by the way the glue is zigzagged in the gap that it never cured. imo the clamping method was incorrect too, the glue line is quite wide, possibly not jointed correctly. i am a big fan of biscuit jointers for this type of seam
leave the boards screwed on the back during the drying process, it may keep the boards flat. remove them and reposition them 1/4" away from the old screw holes
_Ogre is online now  
post #6 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 07:11 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 11,856
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
the wood definitely needs more drying time, you can see by the way the glue is zigzagged in the gap that it never cured. imo the clamping method was incorrect too, the glue line is quite wide, possibly not jointed correctly. i am a big fan of biscuit jointers for this type of seam
leave the boards screwed on the back during the drying process, it may keep the boards flat. remove them and reposition them 1/4" away from the old screw holes

I am not seeing the things that you say that you see. Would you please give a more detailed description.


Biscuits are good for helping with alignment. But in general they are not considered to be helpful for strength, unless otherwise the joint is not strong.


George
GeorgeC is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 09:02 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,951
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
The back boards are an issue .....

As I stated above the boards that are screwed onto the back may have kept each slab in place while they both shrank in from the edges, including the seam. This is why we want the slabs to be as dry as possible before a glue up and to not secure anything on the bottom side that will prevent movement.


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 03:16 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 445
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
I am not seeing the things that you say that you see. Would you please give a more detailed description.
that's not torn wood in the joint, i believe it is glue, very thick glue
almost looks like liquid nails
_Ogre is online now  
post #9 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 11,856
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
that's not torn wood in the joint, i believe it is glue, very thick glue
almost looks like liquid nails

After more careful look, I think you are correct. If so, something other than wood stress caused that seam to go apart. Unless the outside of the wood was held motionless and the wood shrank.



George
GeorgeC is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 04:13 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,951
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
That was my theory .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
As I stated above the boards that are screwed onto the back may have kept each slab in place while they both shrank in from the edges, including the seam. This is why we want the slabs to be as dry as possible before a glue up and to not secure anything on the bottom side that will prevent movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
After more careful look, I think you are correct. If so, something other than wood stress caused that seam to go apart. Unless the outside of the wood was held motionless and the wood shrank.
George

The wood was glued with" high performance wood glue" .... what ever that is? Liquid Nails? Gorilla Glue? Titebond? We need to have the OP contact the builder to find out what was used.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome