Advice needed on mitered joints - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 25 Old 06-20-2011, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by joasis View Post
So what specifically is wrong with using with pocket screws?
I never said it was wrong to use them. My preference is to use other methods. I've posted my thoughts before:

I was going to list the threads that posed problems, but they are easily searched. First off I don't like the holes left when using them, even if they are plugged. My clients look at their work while under construction, and to them it looks like cheap KD type RTA cabinetry.

Screws get pulled out, tear out edges, or not holding. They don't pull in a straight line, and alignment can get off. I don't like the setup, and using a jig. I can do my fabrication joints in the time or less than it takes using pocket screws. IMO, the use of them cannot compare to the predictability of traditional joinery.

Before there were pocket screws the same type of technique (in principle) was used and still used only when needed called "toe nailing" or "toe screwing". In toe nailing, the finish nail size to be used is altered by cutting off the head and using the nail for drilling a pilot hole for partial depth (to keep the wood from splitting). Then the appropriate finish nail gets inserted and seated with a nail set...a very small hole is left.

For toe screwing, a trim screw with a square drive is used. They are the diameter of about a 8d finishing nail and the head was approximately 3/32". In both cases, the parts get clamped, drilled and fastened...something like pocket screws but much smaller. Ordinarily some of the places where pocket screws would be used, just glue and clamps are more than adequate.

Advanced techniques might take you to blind nailing or blind screwing, which IMO, are still better than using pocket screws.


I've got my likes, dislikes, and opinions. I've also read responses that say they have used thousands of pocket screws with no problems. That's great, to each his own.








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post #22 of 25 Old 06-20-2011, 05:25 PM
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Absolutely, to each their own.

My grandfather was a master craftsman, a cabinetmaker of the finest sort...and he would agree with you. I enjoy being outside the traditional "box" and do not use "old school" as a standard for anything....of course, being a general contractor specializing in ICF and steel home construction, one would guess where I am on the issues.

By the same token, all the old school craftsmanship we use in balloon framed homes in America...the standard of construction, shows by how well it lasts.....compared to the Mediterranean, or Europe. And...how would anyone like to make cabinets the old school way used in Europe.....several hundred years ago?

Yeah, I like pocket screws and the Kreg Jig....biscuits....my dovetail jigs.....and doing it by hand would be old school and a chore, as well as a waste of my time...may be great for others, not for me.

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post #23 of 25 Old 06-20-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by joasis View Post
So what specifically is wrong with using with pocket screws?
Pocket screws have their place but they ain't fine woodworking.

Or put another way......

Why would you take the time and trouble to build something that looks like it came from Ikea, Walmart, etc?

Use the right tool for the job.

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post #24 of 25 Old 06-20-2011, 06:33 PM
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I just looked into this to see how c-man blasted pocket screws again. I have to admit he was quite reserved this time.
Restore doesn't mean adding your own flare or adding anything else for that matter that wasn't present when it was new.
Take it apart and put it back together or remake the broken piece(s) and put it back together like it was when it was new. Unless it's your table and family won't be upset for you adding to it.
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post #25 of 25 Old 06-20-2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrich View Post
Pocket screws have their place but they ain't fine woodworking.

Or put another way......

Why would you take the time and trouble to build something that looks like it came from Ikea, Walmart, etc?
Because production methods use pocket screws means they have no place in "fine woodworking"? BS. I have a novel idea....any tool used in any knock down furniture manufacturing, or by hobbyists, should be banished from fine woodworking....like carbide tipped saws, carbide router bits.....or spiral head planers and jointers.

I have made some pretty decent looking furniture and a few grandfather clocks.....probably not in the quality to compare to the really fine items by the true craftsmen...but so what?

If you build a nice piece that you display in your home...do you often turn it over or around to show off your joinery skills?

Maybe....you can point out the book of rules on fine joinery that specifically states what methods craftsmen can use when creating "fine woodworking" projects.

This reminds me of the "old school" types who complain about ICF homes and steel construction....and the defense is that it defies "tradition"....well...only if the tradition is stagnant.

I have some projects to build for Christmas this year....hope I have the time...but anyway, I will make a determined effort to use every innovative means and method I can to a:) build it to last, and b:) build it in a expeditious manner. In other words....pocket screws, biscuit joints, and the labor of love.......might not be as good as the "fine craftsmen" would do....but I bet the recipients of the gifts will not give a damn.

Ladwig Construction
Hennessey, Oklahoma

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