ShopVac Dust Collection Question - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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ShopVac Dust Collection Question

I have a relatively small basement shop. If I wanted to have just a shopvac as my central dust collector system that can be connected to ducting to various drop points around the shop, what specs should I value more than others?

Right now I have a mobile 5hp Ridgid with a dust deputy pre-stage, which works fine, but Iím not sure if it is powerful enough to function as a central collector.

I read that the peak HP doesnít matter as much as, say, amperage.

Any thoughts/philosophy on this?


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post #2 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 10:46 AM
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I have no room for a central system, and like you a shop vac and Dust Deputy serves as my only dust collection. Both the vac and cyclone are on wheels and can be attached to whatever tool I'm using at the time.

I don't think a shop vac moves enough volume to be effective as a central collector. They're fine for point-of-use though. Except for a planer or jointer where the volume of chips will overwhelm it. Still, better than nothing.

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post #3 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 10:52 AM
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I don't know your budget but, ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyPlaneWW View Post
I have a relatively small basement shop. If I wanted to have just a shopvac as my central dust collector system that can be connected to ducting to various drop points around the shop, what specs should I value more than others?

Right now I have a mobile 5hp Ridgid with a dust deputy pre-stage, which works fine, but Iím not sure if it is powerful enough to function as a central collector.

I read that the peak HP doesnít matter as much as, say, amperage.

Any thoughts/philosophy on this?


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When shop vacs go on sale at the Home Depot or Lowes, buy as many as you can afford, at least 2. That way you can connect them directly to the machine or the tool in use at the time. Long runs of ribbed hose diminish the efficiency of the vac. You could hard pipe it with 2" PVC and that will work better, with short lengths of flexible hose at the machine.


Shop vacs move the air at high velocities, where stationary dust collectors more more air at lower velocities. You should have both in a well equipped shop. I use several shop vacs, one on the dust port of the bandsaw, the RAS, and the blade guard over the table saw.
There's a separate one for the floor and for hand held sanders, and the router table fences. I have 4 of them all around the shop, they were about $50.00 each on sale. Rigid is the most quiet one I've found and the best bang for the buck!



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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 11:20 AM
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I also use a ShopVac for dust/chip collection. My last one was an industrial 12 gal. unit that pulled 195 cfm. It worked very well with CleanStream filters. It died last year and I replaced it with a 16 gal. ShopVac that pulls 165 cfm. Works OK, but not as well as the more powerful one that preceded it. I have two filters so that I can wash one out and let it dry while using the other one.

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post #5 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 12:21 PM
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Do you believe a shop vac is more effective that a dust collector for the over the blade table saw port? I run about 650cfm in my central dust collector and use a 2 1/2Ē short hose run for the over the blade collector with a 4Ē port to the cabinet. Never tried the shop vac on the blade. System works well but may be room for improvement.

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post #6 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red5hft View Post
Do you believe a shop vac is more effective that a dust collector for the over the blade table saw port? I run about 650cfm in my central dust collector and use a 2 1/2Ē short hose run for the over the blade collector with a 4Ē port to the cabinet. Never tried the shop vac on the blade. System works well but may be room for improvement.

Obviously a dust collector is better than a ShopVac, but some of us have budgets, or shops that are too small to accommodate a dust collector system. My table saw is completely enclosed (except for the tilt quadrant on the front) and the blade guard has baffles inside to force the saw dust down into the throat opening. The 2/12" vac port on the back of the locker bracket collects nearly everything the saw produces. The rest falls into the hopper shaped belly pan that has a separate vac port for clean out.

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post #7 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 10:08 PM
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Thanks. I was just wondering if the higher velocity air generated by the shop vac would be more efficient in the small port of the above the blade collector. I donít really understand the relationship between velocity and volume and how this affects efficiency. I installed my central duct collection using 4Ē piping as the intake port of the collector was approx 4Ē and most of my tools have 4Ē ports, including the cabinet portion of my table saw. I wonder if I should have gone with 6Ē but not sure I would have had the space.

Oh well, always something to tinker with.

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post #8 of 18 Old 12-23-2018, 11:46 PM
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I keep a shop vac, a dust separator, and accessories on a rolling cart. I am very pleased with it. I plug it into my power tools as I use them, and it makes floor cleanup easy. See:

https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/w...2/#post1886385
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post #9 of 18 Old 12-24-2018, 03:41 AM
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Obviously, it depends on the "dust" ....?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Frye View Post
Obviously a dust collector is better than a ShopVac, but some of us have budgets, or shops that are too small to accommodate a dust collector system. My table saw is completely enclosed (except for the tilt quadrant on the front) and the blade guard has baffles inside to force the saw dust down into the throat opening. The 2/12" vac port on the back of the locker bracket collects nearly everything the saw produces. The rest falls into the hopper shaped belly pan that has a separate vac port for clean out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red5hft View Post
Thanks. I was just wondering if the higher velocity air generated by the shop vac would be more efficient in the small port of the above the blade collector. I don’t really understand the relationship between velocity and volume and how this affects efficiency. I installed my central duct collection using 4” piping as the intake port of the collector was approx 4” and most of my tools have 4” ports, including the cabinet portion of my table saw. I wonder if I should have gone with 6” but not sure I would have had the space.

Oh well, always something to tinker with.
On a table saw, a blade shroud under the table is the best. Older contractor saws with just an open cabinet are the worst. Why? Because the air stream is more focused on the area where the dust is generated. Once the dust start to fall to the bottom, only gravity will work to catch it. Dust has to remain in the air stream to get collected, in my experience. You need a great volume of moving air to collect it, way more than home shop dust collectors can make, also in my experience. My 1 1/2 HP jet 1100's get quite a bit of it, but the corners of the cabinet just don't get evacuated on my contractor saws. My Bosch 4100 has the blade shroud with a 2 1/2" rear port and that works really well.

I find that a drum sander or planer that throws a lot of fine dust or even larger chips is best collected by the stationary DC units. A shop vac just can't keep up, and as long as the dust stays suspended in the air stream a DC, works best. Once it starts to fall out from gravity, it's a lost cause. The closer you can confine the collection point to the generation point, the better its works, no matter which you use, a DC or a shop vac.

For example, on my older Powermatic 12" saw, Model 68, there was no blade shroud. I fabricated up some flat sheet metal and a soldered a 4" port as close to the blade as I could and what an improvement! Also, the open cabinet of the hybrid Craftsman has only a slanted shelf near the bottom port and there's just not enough volume of moving air to catch the dust. I don't know the exact CFMs on the Jet 1100's but it ain't enough for this application. Oh, it's better than none at all, but it's not great.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #10 of 18 Old 12-24-2018, 02:25 PM
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I have the SV/DD setup. It pulls very little sawdust off the BS, TS, DP, lathe to amount to anything. I just let gravity take over and use the 25 foot hose to clean the shop equipment and floor every few days. I am cramped for space, too. I have a place outside the shop that would be OK for a DC system and run the piping through a MSB wall and over the ceiling to the power tools.

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post #11 of 18 Old 01-10-2019, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyPlaneWW View Post
I have a relatively small basement shop. If I wanted to have just a shopvac as my central dust collector system that can be connected to ducting to various drop points around the shop, what specs should I value more than others?

Right now I have a mobile 5hp Ridgid with a dust deputy pre-stage, which works fine, but Iím not sure if it is powerful enough to function as a central collector.

I read that the peak HP doesnít matter as much as, say, amperage.

Any thoughts/philosophy on this?


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Rusty,


HP or amps really don't matter, it's CFM that counts. For example, say you own a shop vac. with a crappy motor that draws 20 amps, but only puts out 3/4 HP, but also was a poorly designed fan impeller and the CFM is squat (~50 cfm?) vs. a second shop vac that has a super efficient 3/4 motor @ 10 amps plus great fan designed and outputs 200 CFM. The amps or HP of the crappy shop vac would seem to make it the choice, but the air flow of the 2nd one is 4 times the poorly built one. I doubt if a real pair of shop vac's would be this far apart, but you get the drift, I hope. In general, the more power produced and amps drawn do represent more CFM, but always look for CFM ratings.



Most portable shop vac's are not able to move enough air to replace a real central system. But a one man shop can get by with a great shop vac and short hoses to one piece of equipment if that's all you can afford or have space for. All IMHO.

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Last edited by OldDon; 01-10-2019 at 10:01 AM.
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-10-2019, 08:39 PM
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Agree with Old Don,

An impeller inside a cowl will move a certain amount air depending on the RPM it is rotating, if a 3/4 HP or a 5 HP motor is spinning it at the same RPM there is no difference in performance. The HP required, or the amps drawn will depend on the size and design of the unit. This goes for both shop vacs and dust collectors, the only thing we have to be concerned about is the CFM's.

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post #13 of 18 Old 03-01-2019, 10:34 PM
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I have a small garage shop. No room and dragging th vaccum hose to every tool is maddening.

I have a shopvac brand 60L, 6.5peak HP vac. I also just bought the dustopper....

I saw this youtube video where they used 2" PVC and ran PVC pipe arounf the sides of the walls with a few drops for vacuum stations outfitted with blastgates.

In a video, everything looks good.

So far the Dustopper work very well.

I just don't have the room for a real dust collection unit with a 4" hose ( wouldnt this be great!).

Anyone have a similar setup or have any good ideas?
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post #14 of 18 Old 03-02-2019, 10:26 AM
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vdot, I'm working on doing the same type of system. I'm moving my equipment around trying to find the most efficient use of space and then I'm plumbing my shop vac and Dust Deputy to the major pieces. I too am sick of dragging hoses and adapters with me.



My biggest problem is my old Craftsman table saw doesn't have a blade shield with hose attachment and just relies on gravity to drop wood dust towards my semi-homemade hose pick up. Dust exits the saw out the back and is flung around inside the saw too. A friend of mine has a similar saw and is working on a shield design with hose attachment and hopefully we both can reduce the amount of dust flung about by the saw blade.



I'm about a year behind in progress because of other problems.

Craftsman 113.29992 Table saw, Craftsman 10" band saw, H. F. 10" drill press, MicroLux 7"x16" lathe, Dewalt 734 planer & Craftsman 6 1/8" jointer
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-03-2019, 08:02 AM
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One additional comment:

If you design your system with runs of pipe, be sure you include a way to clean them out from time to time. Sawdust will settle in them, even with the best of dust collectors, let alone a shop vac. With time, temperature, and humidity changes, the sawdust can accumulate and harden inside the pipes like arteriosclerosis.
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post #16 of 18 Old 03-05-2019, 09:03 AM
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I am using the dust stopper. All the different hoses and fittings dont play well with each other. I wanted solid pipe from vacuum to dustopper . Nothing really fits. Making fittings is a crap shoot. Corrigated pipe they say creates friction... i am just going to press on.
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post #17 of 18 Old 03-05-2019, 10:33 AM
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bought a fein shop vac w/dust deputy 7 years ago. bought the fein because it was the quietest in its class when i bought it. this was mostly to catch from sanders and general cleanup. I sprung for the bag filter and hepa filter. I have not changed the filters once since buying it brand new.


highly recommend a good bag filter system... pay for itself 10 times over. AND your suction does not decrease when the filter clogs, because it doesn't!
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post #18 of 18 Old 03-05-2019, 08:57 PM
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I have watched about a hundred youtube videos on dust collection. I think I settled on 2" PVC with 3-4 drops in an "L" in my garage.

The stupid part about dust collection is all the parts do not fit across the spectrum on the internet.

SHOP VAC hoses are different from many other hoses out there along with their fittings and diameters. The shopvac hoses are just convoluted hoses. The higher quality smoother inside hoses are spiral wired.

I need at least 3.5ft of hose to connect to my shop vac from the dustsopper and additional fittings require propriety purchases and The fittings are stupid. ( no I am)

I went to WOODCRAFT. The box of 2.5" hoses fit their blastgates and their fittings REALLY well. The 20" box of woodcraft 2.5" hoses might be worth the crapshoot involved in buying parts that may not fit on EBAY or AMAZON.

I wanted my dustcollection in one spot. So I removed the handle, wheels, accessory rack, top handle and saw off the nub and made a holder for the dustopper. I bought 2 extra sets of wheels so the SHOPVAC will be mobil even though I intend to attach it to a stationary dust collect ion system for my garage........

At this point I am really only in to this project about $8 for a 10 foot section of PVC.....I could just Buy all the fitting from WOODCRAFT and get on with my life.
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