Multiple Dust Collectors? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 9Likes
  • 1 Post By Techsniffer
  • 1 Post By MT Stringer
  • 2 Post By woodnthings
  • 1 Post By Wil_Bloodworth
  • 1 Post By Wil_Bloodworth
  • 1 Post By woodnthings
  • 1 Post By Catpower
  • 1 Post By Larry Schweitzer
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old 05-16-2017, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
Question Multiple Dust Collectors?

I've been doing a lot of research for my new shop. I almost purchased a Clear Vue system the other night but I figured the entire system (ducting and all) would end up being around $2500-ish.

Right now, I only have a JET XACTA table saw [still in the box on the pallet], a Bosch GCM12SD compound miter saw [still in the box], a Bosch 1617EVSPK router [still in the box], and a Shop Fox W1668 drill press [yes, still in the box]. To me, the only two of those that will get used the most are the TS and the CMS (at least initially).

I ran across Grizzly's G1163P (1 HP Light Duty Dust Collector). https://www.grizzly.com/products/G11...ce=grizzly.com. And their G1029Z2P 2HP 6" machine. They are $180 and $325 respectively. Total with shipping comes to around $655 which is considerably less than $2500!



That said, I figured why not just get the small $180 DC and build it into my outfeed table and connect it directly to the TS. The other DC could be built into the miter station and service everything else. That would eliminate probably about 90% of the tubing and reduce noise as well.

Is my thinking totally flawed here? What are the downsides to doing it this way?

Thank you!

- Wil

Great Success REQUIRES Great Effort
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 05-16-2017, 05:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Techsniffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 144
View Techsniffer's Photo Album My Photos
I've been researching DC solutions for a few months now in prep for when I finally get a good table saw. I've looked at dozens of DC's from the $50 shop vacs to the $4000 ones. And to be honest I keep coming back to the Harbor Freight DC for @$200. I have watched countless videos on customization, modification, different accessories etc and I can't really find anything that gives better bang for the buck. I dont think I've seen one video on YouTube where people actually trash the HF DC, most praise it for being one of the few gems you can buy at HF (along with their F clamps, which are pretty great I have several)

Average for the mid/higher end DC's seems to be @ $2000 give or take $500. Yet the HF DC is $200 and with a few hundred for mods (cyclone, better air filter, custom mounting etc) I will still be at or below $600 for roughly the same performance, aside from the higher HP models, which from everything I've read aren't really useful unless you have a large shop or running multiple tools at the same time.

With the mods you usually get better filtration both on dust/chip collection as well as air filtration than almost any 'stock' DC that's 5 times the price. If I could find better quality solutions at more reasonable prices then I might change my opinion, but spending less than $1000 for a DC, chip separator, better air filter, hoses, piping, connectors, sweeps etc that will rival or beat out a $2000 base DC it kind of seems like a no-brainer to me.

As far as building it into a outfeed table & miter station I think that would be hard, you still need air intake which would still be a point for noise escape which wouldn't really help you in that aspect, not to mention having to crawl in/under something to empty the bag would be a literal and figurative pain in the arse. I would think of a permanent mounting area, or at the very least a home-made mobile DC cart.
Johnnie_dr likes this.

To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.

~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Last edited by Techsniffer; 05-16-2017 at 05:43 PM.
Techsniffer is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 05-16-2017, 07:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Catpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Frognot Texas
Posts: 2,248
View Catpower's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil_Bloodworth View Post
I've been doing a lot of research for my new shop. I almost purchased a Clear Vue system the other night but I figured the entire system (ducting and all) would end up being around $2500-ish.

Right now, I only have a JET XACTA table saw [still in the box on the pallet], a Bosch GCM12SD compound miter saw [still in the box], a Bosch 1617EVSPK router [still in the box], and a Shop Fox W1668 drill press [yes, still in the box]. To me, the only two of those that will get used the most are the TS and the CMS (at least initially).

I ran across Grizzly's G1163P (1 HP Light Duty Dust Collector). https://www.grizzly.com/products/G11...ce=grizzly.com. And their G1029Z2P 2HP 6" machine. They are $180 and $325 respectively. Total with shipping comes to around $655 which is considerably less than $2500!



That said, I figured why not just get the small $180 DC and build it into my outfeed table and connect it directly to the TS. The other DC could be built into the miter station and service everything else. That would eliminate probably about 90% of the tubing and reduce noise as well.

Is my thinking totally flawed here? What are the downsides to doing it this way?

Thank you!

- Wil
I have the 2 hp machine not with the proper ducting quite yet but it has been a good one it will almost keep up with my 20 inch planer, if properly piped it would do it fine but 20 feet of 4 inch flex with a 30 gallon trash can "cyclone" in the middle really screws the SP But I will say that $30 cyclone Grizzly sells really surprised me how much longer the machine runs without having to clean the filter

BTW if you decide to duct your whole shop you would save quite a bit of money by going to Plano to Locke supply if you wanted sheet metal duct or their plumbing dept has PVC sewer pipe

I was reading in one of the wood working mags a couple months ago and they had estimated prices for duct and fittings and was at least 5 times the price you could get it from Locke
Catpower is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 05-16-2017, 07:34 PM
Senior Member
 
MT Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Channelview, Tx
Posts: 2,644
View MT Stringer's Photo Album My Photos
I have my tools in a one car garage. The CMS is on one side and the table saw is on the other. I have a Shop Vac w/Dust Deputy plumbed to the CMS. Also, a port is available to hook up a hose for the ROS, router, etc.

A Harbor Freight 2hp DC is plumbed to the table saw with an additional 4 inch port to hook up a hose to the drum sander, band saw or joiner.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20130410_123149.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	121.1 KB
ID:	295626  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-11-24 11.44.48.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	88.4 KB
ID:	295634  

Attached Images
   
Wil_Bloodworth likes this.
MT Stringer is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 05-16-2017, 09:46 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 26,348
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
You could have many small DC units

One "theory" is to have several small 1 HP DC units around the shop, each hooked to it's own machine. I don't know if anyone a has tried it yet....

In my case I have 2 Jet 1100 DCs with minimum flex hose lengths that I swap between several machines. I have inovated a "quick connect" coupling that allows me to swap hoses in less than 10 seconds. I have the normal machines, table saws, a jointer, a planer or two, and drum sanders. It works better for me than having overhead piping and all the associated blast gates and drops.

The main issue is performance with the smaller DCs. Look at it this way. A DC is a air blower as much as it is an air sucker. It will only suck efficiently IF it is not restricted on the outlet end by a filter that is clogged or doesn't have enough surface area. It will also have reduced efficiency if there are too many sharp bends and the flex hose lengths are excessive. So you have to make the best of both worlds. Bag filters are just not as efficient as pleated fin filters... not as much surface area for a comparable size.

Different machines generate different size particles .... fine dust from sanders, medium dust from table and band saws and larger chips and shavings from jointers and planers. A planer will fill a small drum or bag with shavings in a short time under continuous use. A table saw will take much longer to fill the drum or bag. The drum sander will clog the bag in just a few minutes, rendering it useless because the air can't escape.

A cyclone may separate out the fine dust from the chips BUT if the drum is too small it will fill rapidly. I am not a fan of cyclones for the small shop because of that and the greater expense. They may be fine for a shop vac to keep the filter clean, but they also take up almost an equal amount of floor space as the shop vac. I am also not a fan for that reason. I clean my filters weekly and have extras to replace the dirty ones if I'm in the middle of a job. I do have 4 shop vacs that remain attached to the router tables, bandsaws, and RAS and one for clean ups. I bought them on sale for around $60.00 or so.:smile3:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 05-16-2017 at 10:32 PM. Reason: tyypos?
woodnthings is online now  
post #6 of 17 Old 05-17-2017, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
Awesome. Thank you for the info on the Plano store. That's not too far from my house.
Catpower likes this.
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 05-17-2017, 11:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 321
View Brian(J)'s Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil_Bloodworth View Post
I've been doing a lot of research for my new shop. I almost purchased a Clear Vue system the other night but I figured the entire system (ducting and all) would end up being around $2500-ish.
Total with shipping comes to around $655 which is considerably less than $2500!

That said, I figured why not just get the small $180 DC and build it into my outfeed table and connect it directly to the TS.

- Wil
Newton's First Law of Affordable Shops: Check Craigslist. In the Seattle area at this moment there are about 10 nice looking DC's from $150 to $300, and another 10 at higher prices. I paid $200 for a Delta 50-760.
Brian(J) is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 05-17-2017, 11:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Catpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Frognot Texas
Posts: 2,248
View Catpower's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil_Bloodworth View Post
Awesome. Thank you for the info on the Plano store. That's not too far from my house.

They are at the corner of Park and Avenue K, just east of Central
Catpower is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 05-25-2017, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
After all research was done, I ended up just going with a single dust collection system (the JET DC-1100VX-CK). Now gonna have to run down to Locke supply to figure out what piping to use. Thank you again @Catpower for the referral.

ALL of the machines are still in their original boxes so it's going to be an extremely busy June!
Catpower likes this.

Great Success REQUIRES Great Effort
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 05-25-2017, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
In my case I have 2 Jet 1100 DCs...

...I do have 4 shop vacs that remain attached to the router tables...
2 large DCs and 4 shop vacs. Wow! No ceiling-mounted air filtration?!

Great Success REQUIRES Great Effort
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 05-25-2017, 07:50 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 26,348
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Nope, for several reasons....

First off, I have sloped ceilings which would make it difficult to install them except right down the center where there is a steel I beam.
I did not want to do that.

Secondly, the Jets were reasonable around $500 to $600 on sale with the remotes. By using them on more than one machine with "quick disconnects" it only take a few seconds to swap out the hoses.

The 4 shop vacs have their own machines .... one on 2 bandsaws, one on a 12" RAS, one switches between 2 router tables and the 4th is for shop clean ups and hooked to the ROS. They were also on sale for around $60.00 or so.

It works for me in my space, and that's all that matters. You should understand the difference in air velocity and air volume between a shop vac and a full size DC. Shop vacs have a high velocity air stream with low CFM flow. The DCs have lower velocity air stream but high CFMs flow. Shop vac are great for fine dust off the machines small dust ports like the RAS, or bandsaw and the DCs atre best for the planer, jointers and drum sanders where large volumes of chips and fine dust are created. A shop vac hooked to a thickness planer will fill up in a short time if operated continuously.
Wil_Bloodworth likes this.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
post #12 of 17 Old 05-26-2017, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
@woodnthings Oh, I wasn't giving you a hard time. I was just saying that was awesome.

@Catpower: Did you go with PVC or metal piping?

Great Success REQUIRES Great Effort
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 05-26-2017, 12:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Catpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Frognot Texas
Posts: 2,248
View Catpower's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil_Bloodworth View Post
@woodnthings Oh, I wasn't giving you a hard time. I was just saying that was awesome.

@Catpower: Did you go with PVC or metal piping?
Haven't done either yet, but we are going to do something shortly, the grand kids owe me for getting them a go cart They can be the rafter monkeys LOL

Will probably use snap lock metal and install a barometric damper that would open in case I forgot to open a blast gate. A good DC might have enough oomph to collapse snap lock pipe. If you do decide to got metal, when you are at Locke pick up a bucket of duct sealant, it is kind of messy but does a much better job of sealing the ducts, and it would probably reinforce the duct somewhat
Wil_Bloodworth likes this.
Catpower is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 05-26-2017, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catpower View Post
Haven't done either yet, but we are going to do something shortly, the grand kids owe me for getting them a go cart They can be the rafter monkeys LOL

Will probably use snap lock metal and install a barometric damper that would open in case I forgot to open a blast gate. A good DC might have enough oomph to collapse snap lock pipe. If you do decide to got metal, when you are at Locke pick up a bucket of duct sealant, it is kind of messy but does a much better job of sealing the ducts, and it would probably reinforce the duct somewhat
I'm thinking about going the PVC route but it will all come down to cost. I think the metal snap lock tubing feels a bit "light" and the DC might collapse it if I forget to open up the appropriate gates as you mentioned... which I'm certain I will forget.

Great Success REQUIRES Great Effort
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 05-26-2017, 06:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Catpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Frognot Texas
Posts: 2,248
View Catpower's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil_Bloodworth View Post
I'm thinking about going the PVC route but it will all come down to cost. I think the metal snap lock tubing feels a bit "light" and the DC might collapse it if I forget to open up the appropriate gates as you mentioned... which I'm certain I will forget.

When you go to Locke ask them if they have any draw bands, they will probably look at you like you are speaking Greek, (the counter help isn't the brightest bulb in the bx) but they are bands that go around the pipe to connect the pipe to a fitting with out crimping the pipe, kind of a butt to butt joint. I am about positive they would stop the pipe from collapsing because they would force it to stay round

The thing that will kill the PVC is the fittings.up to 4 inch are reasonable 6 inch gets kind of insane, but you live in Frisco, so you have to be rich LOL
Catpower is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 05-26-2017, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Frisco, Texas
Posts: 102
View Wil_Bloodworth's Photo Album My Photos
Ha. Yes, I live in Frisco but am far from rich. I can always go into Locke and buy one piece of PVC at a time. Maybe they have layaway.
Wil_Bloodworth is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 05-27-2017, 12:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 442
View Larry Schweitzer's Photo Album My Photos
Watch out using the snap lock furnace duct. It is made for positive pressure not negative. I've seen it collapsed with a small dust collector.
There were some good suggestions about not using too much flex duct, it has a high internal resistance to flow. The more filter area you have the better. There is a lot of differences in the air flow on different filter materials. You can have custom bags made relatively cheaply by several companies that specialize in it. Have a big one made and hang it out of the way. Next problem is the stated air moving on many cheap collectors. It is often stated as "free air" meaning no resistance. Good collectors will state it in terms of static pressure.
Wil_Bloodworth likes this.
Larry Schweitzer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Larry Schweitzer For This Useful Post:
Wil_Bloodworth (06-05-2017)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dust Deputy and Multiple Tools mkushin General Woodworking Discussion 5 04-04-2019 03:02 AM
Designing A Automatic Dust Collection System Bellarosecabinets Dust Collection 13 02-18-2017 02:06 AM
Tips for Dust Collection in a Home Wood Shop WoodworkingTalk Featured Topics 0 08-11-2016 12:25 PM
Portable Dust Collection Cart with Noise Reduction & Dust Separator using Shop Vac pbriggs8 Dust Collection 3 04-10-2016 12:22 AM
size of dc for a2o'x24 shop gmcooter Dust Collection 6 01-07-2016 05:29 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome