deciding on DC is hard... - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 11-01-2019, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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deciding on DC is hard...

Ok, so here is my life story, back in the late 70s and early 80s, I was a cabinet maker, small shop with 2 employees and we did ok. Of course back then Dust Collection was for wussies and my lungs gave out, I had to sell the shop and find something else to do for a living. I now only woodwork occasionally for house projects and if I don't use my DC, my asthma acts up pretty quickly. My DC is a very old Delta 50-181, a barrel thing with a canvas bag on the outlet. It collects a lot of dust and throws out a lot via the canvas bag, I actually don't use it most of the time especially because the 30+ year flex tube is barely flexible making it a pain to use.

Ok, my shop is both large and small, its 24x42, quite nice size for a single hobby shop. But I restore cars for a hobby, so there are 2 lifts in the shop taking up floor space. I have metal lathe, a mill, a TIG and a MIG and oxy/acet welders taking up space. I reload for my gun hobby so there is a dedicated space for reloading and storing powder/primers away from sparks when grinding/welding/etc. For wood, I have a 8" jointer/12 Planer combo, disc and belt sander, 10" table saw, band saw and a router table. Because I use my shop for various hobbies, my tools are all on wheels except for the metal lathe and mill, when doing car work like right now I move my wood tools up against the wall. I move the wood tools back into the middle when doing wood projects. I know this has a been a long read so far, I felt you needed to know to help me plan my DC. My next car has a wood frame underneath a flimsy alloy skin, so tons of woodworking over the next year and I want a DC.


I kind of fell in love with the Laguna PFlux in 1.5HP since its 110v and I thought I would wheel it around to my tools and use it, but it requires 30amp 110v so that makes it less moveable in my mind as I will have to wire a plug for it somewhere. I have 5 220V 50amp and 5 more 220V 30amp drops already in the shop so I can move my welders or table saw anywhere I want but all my 110V's are 20amp. So I am looking at the 2hp or 3hp Pflux. and NO permanent piping in the shop, just a long flex hose. I know you lose suction that way, but i will only hook up one tool at a time. My wife is kind of pushing for a permanent installation like a ClearVue CV1800, still with no piping just a long flex hose. I don't want to give up floor space to a non-moveable item but its a thought, with a CV1800 I would likely plumb one pipe out to the middle of the shop and then one flex line drop to the tools and move from one tool to the other.


Since our original budget was "lets stay under a $1,000" we are obviously way over that and I am looking at much cheaper alternatives, I even considered using the DC I have and removing the bag and Mickey Mousing a filter on it or exhausting it to the outside.



I have 2 concerns, one is noise, I chose the PFlex over the CFlex because of the noise reduction. I am worried about the CV1800 noise, if its too noisy I bet I would just turn it off and not use it, yes I wear hearing protection at all times but because of my hobbies I have hearing loss and I try to keep shop noise to absolute minimum to keep what hearing I have. Second is, if I really get into woodworking again (which I would love to do) I need really good dust collection due to damaged lungs and I am concerned that moving one hose from one machine to the other will get old rather quickly. I really don't see how to run permanent pipes in my shop due to the fact that I move my machines around based on the project, my table saw maybe at this end of the shop this week and the other end next month.

A lot to read, I know, but I am looking for suggestions that I may not have thought of. All the welding and lead work (yes, I use old school lead) is done and I am in the final body prep stage of my current car, so shop is filled with Bondo dust but final color coat will be on before Thanksgiving and car done by Xmas holiday, so I want to have my DC in the next few weeks to get ready for next car.

I just play with wood in order to make sawdust, I make the very best sawdust.

Last edited by mikeyr; 11-01-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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post #2 of 9 Old 11-01-2019, 05:20 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Great range of hobbies!

Man after my own heart, with restorations, metal working and welding, reloading, woodworking etc! So, you will have many operations that need a suction hose close at hand for the best "at source" collection.

That means either a mobile unit on easy to roll casters or several overhead drops at strategic points on the shop with a fixed in place unit. In my woodworking shop I decided that an overhead sytem wouldn't work, so I just got 2 mobile Jet 1100's and a AFS 1000 for overhead air filtration. I keep the flex hose input length to under 6 ft and that goes directly into the 7" inlets on the 1 1/2HP 120 V Jets.
They do have cannister filters which are far better than the bags.

A little theory here. A dust collector is a high volume air pump. It pushes the dusty air through the cannister filters, so what ever doesn't get trapped by the filter, gets airborne. That's why you need the overhead air filter in addition. A cyclone ahead of the cannister will capture most of the dust, so the filter will last longer in between cleanings AND have less dust to collect and filter. These are mobile cyclone units:

This 2 HP is right at the $1000.00 price, and a 3 HP is slightly more:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...ollector/G0861
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...ollector/G0862


Definitely worth the extra $$ for the 3HP model.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 11-01-2019 at 05:27 PM.
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post #3 of 9 Old 11-03-2019, 10:55 PM
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I went with the Grizzly 860 at 1.5 hp. It is easy to move and needs 20 amps solid but should be easy to move about.

landed mine - less the PVC and hoses at $850
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post #4 of 9 Old 11-04-2019, 12:50 PM
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In my view there are two aspects to consider:

1) Keeping the air clean.

With limited use and machines, I think if you added a canister filter to old DC you have that would be adequate.

I would also suggest a couple air filtration units.

A well ventilated shop is also a plus. If you're climate allows, a large 4' exhaust fan can really be helpful getting rid of airborne particles.

2) Personal protection. For close up work like sanding I good quality full face respirator is required. With your respiratory issues, I would not rely on a dust mask, but get a good quality respirator.
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post #5 of 9 Old 11-04-2019, 06:24 PM
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I'd be really, really surprised if the DC you were looking at that needed 30amp 110 service could be run off a 15amp 220 circuit, 110 service past 20 amps is so uncommon I can't see how it's make sense. You might wanna shoot Laguna an email before you rule that one out

I need cheaper hobby
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post #6 of 9 Old 11-05-2019, 09:28 AM
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If you love the Laguna, get it. Now I will tell you why. If you have extra 220 volt 50 amp outlets you can use for the DC while using which ever tool you use, you will not have a problem. All you need to do is either change the plug on the end of the cord or make an adapter. I am assuming you are a extremely competent man given your hobbies and experiences listed. If you go the make an adapter route, you will need a cord end “plug” a short piece of 10awg “romex” NMSC (non metallic sheathed cable) and a cord receptacle that the DC collector will plug into. Now on the 220v cord cap you will attach the neutral and ground as normal, providing they are 4-wire receptacles and then attach the line “hot” wire to just one of the two hot wire terminals. The end the DC collector plugs into is standard green screw to bare wire, white wire to silver screw, black wire to the brass colored screw.

Now for the safety trolls that are going to say you cannot and should not plug something rated for 30 amps into a 50 amp circuit, anything you will say will prove invalid because there may be just 1, just 1 single person reading this that will be the exception. Go through your house and unplug everything because everything you have plugged in is rated for far less power then a 120 volt ac circuit at 15 or even 20 amps.

Now for the actual NEC obeying, disregard everything I said above and block me. 😂
Now I will add more than likely your 220 volt 50 amp plugs are 3 wire circuits. And I will go into just a little detail here.
In order for the adapter stated above to work you need a 4 wire circuit. However by “bonding the neutral and ground wires to the ground screw in the 220 volt cord cap, you will not have any problems.
Neutral and ground should already be “bonded” or connected together in the first means of disconnect for your home.
Now for the potential safety hazard, by bonding the ground and neutral at the outlet, if the dust collector is ever left plugged in and running and someone happens to be working on the electrical system in your home and breaks the ground/neutral bond on that specific circuit or in the panel removes the bonding strap, they can then potentially be placed “in-circuit” under a load. Which is potentially deadly.
Now for those who actually think they care, a little about me. I was an Electrician and Firefighter/EMT for many decades.
My Electrical background is in residential, commercial, and industrial, service, repair, and upgrades. I was a IBEW brother out of Louisville Ky.
Anyway, if this is confusing to you and you want more detail, just send me a private message and I would be glad to help.
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post #7 of 9 Old 11-05-2019, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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OP here...so I called Laguna and their website is correct, the 110V unit requires a 30amp breaker. It is less than 20amp running but will blow the breaker at startup if its not 30.


I am absolutely positive you can run a 30amp device on a 50amp circuit, the 50amp breaker exists to protect the wire in the wall and prevent a fire, it is not there to protect a device. I would run new wire rather than convert a 220 plug to 110.



If I go Laguna I will go with their 220V Pflux, either 2 or 3hp and solve the 110v issue. My wife is leaning towards either Oneida or Clearvue as a permanent installation, I am not sure i want to give up the floorspace, she thinks a perm install and one ducting coming out 10ft or so from the wall towards the center of the room and a single flex line coming down and just hook up each tool as i use it. The Oneida V-system with muffler is interesting, I also found a used Oneida that i have not seen yet but will go look at. It would need new filters at the minimum.



I am beginning to think a cheap JET or Grizzly single stage and replace the bag with a filter is good enough.

I just play with wood in order to make sawdust, I make the very best sawdust.
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post #8 of 9 Old 11-05-2019, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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OP here again....I hate giving up the floor space but going with Oneida V-System 3000. I want quiet and this should be quiet, the current model has a silencer that knocks off a few DB's. I will plumb one 8-10ft. pipe out near the middle of the shop and drop down with long flex hose to my table saw, i will move the hose from one tool to the other for now and when I reset my shop next year (after current car is done) I will plumb it properly, just hate giving up the floor space.


I chose this because the performance is similar to CV1800 and its much quieter, i also am alone in the shop so I only run one tool at a time, technically this is way overkill so a CV1800 would have been even more over the top and price is about the same by the time you throw in the plumbing. And reviews are great for both items. I keep reading about poor separation in the smaller cyclone, yes i also read that Laguna at least has fixed the issue and I assume others as well, but the floor space is about the same and the only difference is that one is on wheels. In my shop being on wheels is almost a requirement but this big a footprint may not always get to move around without moving other stuff, so fixed on the wall it is.

Wife is happy, I way over analyzed this for weeks, not something i normally do, she was tired of hearing about it.

I just play with wood in order to make sawdust, I make the very best sawdust.
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post #9 of 9 Old 11-11-2019, 02:59 AM
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If you haven't read this thread, I would suggest that you do.



https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f24/...lector-194601/


There is a lot of good information in the thread, as well as the other threads that are listed in it.


Eric

Ain't technology grand........when it works.
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