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post #1 of 16 Old 10-30-2019, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Question DC for old Craftsman TS or The Cabinet Saw Cabinet

So recently I got an old Craftsman 113.19063. I haven't gotten a chance to use it because we got evacuated during all these dumb fires in Cali. Anyway, I am going to build an ~4x6 table/stand/cabinet/outfeed table that it sits on/in and that I can store tools etc in. I have a small single car garage that I have a corner of, otherwise I would keep the mobile stand it was on and just build a separate outfeed table.

Anyway, I built this model on sketchup and am wondering if there is a better way to collect the dust. I WANT to have a fan and filter system, but I don't want to take up a ton of space with it. I was thinking of using the tall narrow cubby (the yellow one) to house a 14x24 furnace filter and a small squirrel cage fan I have. The red areas are where the saw and dust will live and the tile looking texture is the table saw top. The top area of the red part is going to be where the TS motor is. The other option is a drawer under the motor that just collects stuff and gets dumped every day or two...(like THAT will happen LOL)

The white border on the bottom is hiding the 2x4 grid that everything will be sitting on. I will use Home Depot red 5" double lock castors so I can move the whole assembly over the 1" step going from our driveway into the garage (I move the saw outside to work).

Search sketchup for #cabinet_saw_cabinet to find the model. Below is another post with screenshots of the model for those of you who don't have sketchup.

Thanks, you can comment a design idea or mod the sketchup file and link to it. I plan to have an over the blade DC system too, but I want to see if this works well before I do that.
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post #2 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 03:43 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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Dust collection is not that simple ......

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...nerscorner.cfm

Read as much of this info as you can absorb.
It is detailed and tedious, BUT you will know way more about collection methods, systems, dust and particle size and how to best keep a dist free shop area.



I'll tell you what I do. I use 3 different dust collection systems:
(1) Jet 1100 1 1/2 HP dust collector with 4" flex hose kept to a minimum
to collect dust and chips at the large machines.


(2) Jet 3 speed AFS 1000 overhead dust filtration unit to collect floating airborne dust in the shop air.


(3) Several Rigid 16 gal shop vacs attached to the small dust ports on router tables, miter saws, radial arm saws and all ROS hand held sanders.


You need all 3 types to really do the best job of dust collection. Here's why. Fine dust particles will float in the air and settle on horizontal surfaces IF they are not immediately collected right at their source. A high velocity shop vac is the best device to collect "at source" generated dust. It needs to be within 2" of the source to do the best job. Grab a handful of dust and slowly let it fall in front of your shop vac hose at various distances and you'll see what I mean.



An older table saw is a very difficult unit to collect dust because of the open space inside the cabinet and lack of a shroud that encloses the blade. Once the dust is spun off the blade it may shoot out the top of the table, but most will end up inside the cabinet, falling down from it's own weight before it gets sucked into and 4" dust collection hose at the base of the cabinet. That's just how it works.


Once the fine dust get airborne, you need to move a lot of air through an overhead filtration device to "scrub" it out. The AFS 1000 has two internal filters for this reason.



Different approaches are used depending on the shop location and whether you can exhaust dust to the outside OR you have to filter it well enough to recycle the air back inside the shop area. Those final filters are vital in determining the particle size that gets pushed back into the air you are breathing. Bags are the least effective, and cannisters are the best because they have so much more surface area and a finer filter media.



You need to understand that a dust collector is really a high volume air pump, not a suction device. It creates suction by displacing the air it takes in and pumps it through a filter, under pressure. The better and larger the filter, the cleaner the air that passes through it and the cleaner the air you end up breathing.




The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #3 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
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I understand that, but as I said in the original post, I don't have the money or space for a real DC. All I have, is about 2 cubic feet for a filter or two and a motor.

It is good to know that a shop vac will only work 2" away, clearly NOT the tool for the cabinet of the saw.

I do have a 20" box fan with a fine furnace filter I could put in the shop, but I may blow a breaker with the TS, its DC, the shop vac shroud, and the fan....plus the 2 refrigerators and lights in the garage...

Do you think it may be better to just have a drawer underneath the TS to catch the dust, and a shroud over the blade to get its dust? Less power draw and probably just as effective as anything I can afford...
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post #4 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 04:17 AM Thread Starter
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I don't mean to sound snobbish, I understand what you are saying and that it IS the best way, but I can't afford it.
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post #5 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 04:44 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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Dust collection on a budget ....

Start with a Rigid shop vac to collect the dust from the table saw. Use a box fan with a furnace filter to clean the air. That's as cheap as you can go until the real system is affordable. Wear a dust mask when working with the table saw and leave the air filter running as long as possible.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #6 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Start with a Rigid shop vac to collect the dust from the table saw. Use a box fan with a furnace filter to clean the air. That's as cheap as you can go until the real system is affordable. Wear a dust mask when working with the table saw and leave the air filter running as long as possible. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.png[/IMG]
Sounds good. I have the Ridgid vac (shop vac is easier to type LOL). I'll build a shroud and then bring my filter fan out there.

I almost always wear a respirator because the dust gets me almost immediately. Paper masks don't fit well for some reason... (it might be because they don't cost $40 and look like something from a horror movie... LOL)
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post #7 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 02:40 PM
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Cheapest system for a Craftsman contractor style saw is a bag that fits under it that catches the sawdust, which are actually quite efficient, then it is a matter of collecting the dust from on top of the table with a guard with a hose connected to a shop vac.

Contractor style saws were not designed to work with dust collectors so any solution will involve blocking any escape routes as efficiently as possible which is hard with the motor hanging out the back.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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http://woodworkerglossary.com
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 03:19 PM
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similar to the bag frankc mentioned, my bucket works pretty well to collect 80% of the sawdust
mainly a bucket sized ring screwed under and a U shaped flange to hang the bucket flange
i used a couple of magnets to fasten a rear cover that traps another 15%, it comes off when the blade is tilted
was going to add a vacuum port for the shop vac to catch the fine dust, but was happy with the bucket
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post #9 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 03:31 PM
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my floor is very rough and sloped to the manure trough, which made it hard for the rear table extension
a couple of brackets on the saw with some rectangular tubing and leftover melamine board
table extension and tubing comes off in a few seconds if needed
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-31-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
my floor is very rough and sloped to the manure trough, which made it hard for the rear table extension <img src="http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/WoodworkingTalk_2016/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
a couple of brackets on the saw with some rectangular tubing and leftover melamine board
table extension and tubing comes off in a few seconds if needed
Could you send photos? That is the same with my shop. The driveway is a 1 inch drop from the garage floor. That is why I can't have the outfeed separate from the saw.
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-01-2019, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
Cheapest system for a Craftsman contractor style saw is a bag that fits under it that catches the sawdust, which are actually quite efficient, then it is a matter of collecting the dust from on top of the table with a guard with a hose connected to a shop vac.

Contractor style saws were not designed to work with dust collectors so any solution will involve blocking any escape routes as efficiently as possible which is hard with the motor hanging out the back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
similar to the bag frankc mentioned, my bucket works pretty well to collect 80% of the sawdust
mainly a bucket sized ring screwed under and a U shaped flange to hang the bucket flange
i used a couple of magnets to fasten a rear cover that traps another 15%, it comes off when the blade is tilted
was going to add a vacuum port for the shop vac to catch the fine dust, but was happy with the bucket
I really think that the best way is the over arm thing and filter fan. Then I will put a drawer under the dust chute (the saw is a cabinet style with a dust chute built in) and empty it every now and then.
For the dust collection in the saw outfeed cabinet, I am not going for the absolute cheapest way, just a space saving, cost efficient way. I cant afford much, but this cabinet will be used for years, so I want it done right the first time.

Last edited by Nicholas Royer; 11-01-2019 at 01:37 AM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 11-01-2019, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Royer View Post
Could you send photos? That is the same with my shop. The driveway is a 1 inch drop from the garage floor. That is why I can't have the outfeed separate from the saw.
can you see the pics in the reply i posted? that's pretty much it
the tubing is .75"x1.5", brackets are 3/4 plywood, the rest is scrap i had laying around
i have a post next to my saw, so i need to turn it depending on what i'm cutting
with un-level floor i had to have the outfeed table attached

notice my mobile base? it's an $7 harbor fright furniture mover, cut in half
push down both sides and it rolls around, a little wobbly but it works
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Last edited by _Ogre; 11-01-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-02-2019, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Ogre: I see them now. I didn't notice the attachments before (the photos dont pop up for me unless I click on the attachments).
I have the same mobile base on my sharpening grinder station!

I am thinking about a system like that now. I'll still have my big table that rolls out, but I think I will put my saw on one end, 90 degrees from my original design. (Instead of the whole table being an outfeed, just 5 or so inches will be.) That will allow me to make small cuts without moving the saw out of the garage, and when I need the full capacity, i won't have to clear off the top... I'll probably use a fold down table hinge to hold a small outfeed table that just swings up into place when I need it....

Any ideas? I'll try to get a diagram or something to better illustrate my NEW idea...
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post #14 of 16 Old 11-03-2019, 06:42 AM
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Bill Pentz's site has a lot of information, but as ive mentioned before here i cant say im a fan of his presentation. The way that Mr. Pents presents it, any dust collection system that doesnt capture and filter 99.9% of dust is a useless waste of time and will lead to a slow death from cancer. My belief is that most of what is said on that site is, while extremely well researched and documented, is also extreme overkill. You dont 'need' a big old 5hp dust collector with a hyper-efficient 8 foot tall cyclone separator that can suck the siding off your neighbors house and spit out air that would be at home in an IBM clean room, not if your goal is just to suck up sawdust from a table saw. All you really need is a shop-vac attached to the port of the saw.

Personally, i like a simpler system, more closely related to the one woodnthings posted; dust collection at the tool via a shop-vac or dust collector, a furnace filter duct taped to a box fan for ambient filtration, and a respirator. Attaching a vacuum to the tool collects most of the dust at its source and helps keep the shop clean, the fan collects most of the airborne fine dust, and the respirator is responsible for keeping you healthy and protected

As far as your original question goes, of how to handle dust collection on your saw, honestly id ditch the squirrel blower you were thinking of and just use a shop-vac. Faster-moving, higher pressure air streams seem to work better on things like table saws, for me, and portable saws are designed to have blade shrouds that work with vacuums anyways. Now, if you were to fully enclose the saw base and add a larger collection port, a larger air mover might work better, but at that point it would honestly be a better option to invest in one of the cheap Harbor Freight dust collectors.

Keep it simple. If youll forgive me for saying so, it sounds like youre pretty new to the woodworking game. Wanting to build a giant, all-in-one work station is admirable, but honestly youll have a much better idea of what you want to have and what needs to be done if you use the tools first, then get fancy with them. This is coming from someone who built a nice 4'x8' outfeed table for my first saw when i got it, only to absolutely hate it because it took up too much shop space and was never clear for outfeed purposes
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post #15 of 16 Old 11-03-2019, 07:22 AM
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Lots of good points ^

What he says ^. The final "filter" is your respirator. If you wear one faithfully, that will protect you from the very fine dust that gets airborne regardless of all other collection methods. And running a box fan with a furnace filter hung from the ceiling 24/7 will do great things as well. I recently got a couple of dust stoppers from Home Depot to catch the dust ahead of my shop vacs, about $40.00 each. Preventing the dust from clogging up the shop vac filter will also do great things.



Get some How To ideas here:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ce+filter+dust



It won't do you any good to catch all that dust if when you clean off the filter you let it all back into the shop air. Take them outside to clean them off.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-04-2019, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Bill Pentz's site has a lot of information, but as ive mentioned before here i cant say im a fan of his presentation. The way that Mr. Pents presents it, any dust collection system that doesnt capture and filter 99.9% of dust is a useless waste of time and will lead to a slow death from cancer. My belief is that most of what is said on that site is, while extremely well researched and documented, is also extreme overkill. You dont 'need' a big old 5hp dust collector with a hyper-efficient 8 foot tall cyclone separator that can suck the siding off your neighbors house and spit out air that would be at home in an IBM clean room, not if your goal is just to suck up sawdust from a table saw. All you really need is a shop-vac attached to the port of the saw.

Personally, i like a simpler system, more closely related to the one woodnthings posted; dust collection at the tool via a shop-vac or dust collector, a furnace filter duct taped to a box fan for ambient filtration, and a respirator. Attaching a vacuum to the tool collects most of the dust at its source and helps keep the shop clean, the fan collects most of the airborne fine dust, and the respirator is responsible for keeping you healthy and protected

As far as your original question goes, of how to handle dust collection on your saw, honestly id ditch the squirrel blower you were thinking of and just use a shop-vac. Faster-moving, higher pressure air streams seem to work better on things like table saws, for me, and portable saws are designed to have blade shrouds that work with vacuums anyways. Now, if you were to fully enclose the saw base and add a larger collection port, a larger air mover might work better, but at that point it would honestly be a better option to invest in one of the cheap Harbor Freight dust collectors.

Keep it simple. If youll forgive me for saying so, it sounds like youre pretty new to the woodworking game. Wanting to build a giant, all-in-one work station is admirable, but honestly youll have a much better idea of what you want to have and what needs to be done if you use the tools first, then get fancy with them. This is coming from someone who built a nice 4'x8' outfeed table for my first saw when i got it, only to absolutely hate it because it took up too much shop space and was never clear for outfeed purposes
I'm not super new. I've been woodworking for 10 years and playing with tools since I was 3 (20 years ago).
I AM new to cabinet saws and DC. I just wanted opinions on whether a method would work or not.
I have an all in one station for my old saw, I just want one for the new one. I started this thread to get ideas for how to get DC without having a huge collector that pulls siding off houses...
I'm not offended, don't worry!
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