2HP Dust Collector - Some questions about setting up. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 05-03-2020, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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Okay. I am new to this whole woodworking and especially Dust collector thing.

Picked up a shopfox 1hp DC few days ago on Craigslist. By asking a bunch of questions here caused me to realize I needed a better one. Sold it today. Tomorrow I am picking up a used 2016, Grizzly 2 HP G0548ZP polar bear series, made in Taiwan. Comes with a 1 micron canister filter which I will be selling soon. You will see why.

Some specs:
240v , 9 amp draws.
6” inlet.
12 3/4 aluminum radial fin Impeller.
1700 cfm.

I am going to build a lean to shed behind the garage and this DC is going to live there. Exhausting outside. No filter, no bag. Hence selling the Canister filter.

Going to run 6” duct with as least as possible bents and joints into the garage on the floor level.

I am a hobbyist / diy type. Just a 3/4 of the two car garage shop. Use table saw, miter saw, circular saw, belt / disc sander and router mainly. No planer.

Only the table saw and miter saw will be permanently hooked. Other tools have to be pulled out from storage and hooked as I use them.

Now my main question is whether I should use a pre separator or not .

I almost want to not use anything and just want to run the outlet into a box/bin with some crude chip separation. No filter. This will remove all the restriction and potentially increase the cfm and suction.

My impeller is aluminum, not steel. That’s why I am wondering whether I should use a pre impeller separator. Regardless I will not be using a cyclone. It will be a home made trash can separator.

What do you guys think ?

Also any other inputs and suggestions as I go into this new learning experience would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Last edited by Rency; 05-04-2020 at 12:11 AM.
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post #2 of 26 Old 05-04-2020, 04:49 AM
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Even if your impeller was steel, you should still use a pre-separator. Running debris through and impeller will damage it over time, plus things like shavings from a planer or jointer can clog the vanes up. Had that happen from time to time with my dust collector, and the impeller housing has some impressive dents from times when stuff like a loose knot has made its way through the system. I really should have a seperator on mine too, looking through the inlet i can see that the impeller vanes are a fair bit through their lifespan
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post #3 of 26 Old 05-04-2020, 01:26 PM
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I think you should connect the machine and run it, see how it operates for your situation, then make changes appropriately.

It's pretty easy to overthink things sometimes, you don't have a significant load in the tools you mention, you may dump the bag once a year. With limited space a separator is just something else consuming space.

I don't understand the reasoning with removing the filter and venting it outside, you are putting the particulate back in the air(and making a helluva mess outside), and are likely to expose either yourself, or others to it, why not just run the filter?
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post #4 of 26 Old 05-04-2020, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Went and picked up the unit. Took all day cleaning it. The filter was not caked or anything, but the dude used the DC for fiber stuff. It had a lot of fiber dust everywhere. Cleaned up pretty well though. I have some pictures below after cleaning up.

Got all that for a a great deal. Let me just say it was not much more than the Harbor freight unit which I was considering at one point .

This one is 2017/03 model. The new ones are going right now on grizzly site for 535 plus 99 shipping and other sites have it for around 650. Even though I got the Super Deputy with my deal I may not be using it.
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Last edited by Rency; 05-04-2020 at 11:51 PM.
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post #5 of 26 Old 05-04-2020, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
I think you should connect the machine and run it, see how it operates for your situation, then make changes appropriately.

It's pretty easy to overthink things sometimes, you don't have a significant load in the tools you mention, you may dump the bag once a year. With limited space a separator is just something else consuming space.

I don't understand the reasoning with removing the filter and venting it outside, you are putting the particulate back in the air(and making a helluva mess outside), and are likely to expose either yourself, or others to it, why not just run the filter?
The unit is definitely going to be sitting outside. So if I use a form of separator pre or post impeller then the exhaust is going to be only the micro dust. That I can exhaust into a small box type of section of the shed with some sort of filtered ventilation. Nothing is going to fly all over the place. I don’t have to deal with a filter and will have less back pressure.

Though I am not hung up on not using filter or using it. I am just sharing my initial thoughts and want to hear from others. Then make a learned decision. Thanks a lot for your suggestions.
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post #6 of 26 Old 05-04-2020, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Even if your impeller was steel, you should still use a pre-separator. Running debris through and impeller will damage it over time, plus things like shavings from a planer or jointer can clog the vanes up. Had that happen from time to time with my dust collector, and the impeller housing has some impressive dents from times when stuff like a loose knot has made its way through the system. I really should have a seperator on mine too, looking through the inlet i can see that the impeller vanes are a fair bit through their lifespan
Which DC do you use ? Are you venting outside ? Do you have separator/filter post impeller?

How long have you been using your DC before you got those damages on the impeller?

Thanks
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post #7 of 26 Old 05-04-2020, 11:18 PM
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Be careful about blowing sawdust without a filter bag, it can explode and catch fire, many sawmills burn down every year because fine particle dust wasn't addressed.


https://www.woodshopnews.com/feature...s-of-wood-dust
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post #8 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Okay let me just be clear. When I said exhausting outside I am not talking about just connecting a piece of pipe to the outlet , point it outside and just shoot dust everywhere. I am talking about exhausting into a bin or box with some form of separation where heavy dust collected and the super fine ones being exhausted out, that too with some filtration or pointed down to the ground or a box or something.

I am not talking about collecting all the dust from the garage and dumbIng it all straight outside the wall through a pipe. Though I don’t have a problem with people doing that in situations where they can. If I was in an area with tons of land around my shop I would shoot everything straight outside into a bin or even without a bin.

Having the DC outside is the only way because of my space limitation. Since it is already outside I don’t see any point in trying to keep the micro dust inside the shop. In my situation I want to exhaust outside with some form of pre or post separation. I don’t want to deal with a filter. By removing filter there will be less back pressure and better suction. I cannot do a technically perfect enough dust collection to take care of all the micro dust within the shop. So exhausting outside.

Anyways I appreciate all the suggestions and cautions too. Thanks for teaching me new things.

Now I have to start working on the lean to shed/DC house. And then the ducting. Hopefully by the time I am done with those two things my electrician friend would have installed the subpanel in my garage so I can have the long awaited 220 or 240 (however you want to call it).

In the meantime let’s hear all the great ideas and suggestions from the experienced peeps.

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post #9 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 01:21 AM
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Pre-separator experience.

I have a Jet DC 1 HP, 4" hose to devices, only 1 at a time, two bags top and bottom either 1 or .5 micron.

When I'm in the shop very regularly I'll empty the pre-separator about once every 3 weeks. It is a 33 gallon galvanized trash can. I will empty the bottom bag of the DC about once a year. The trash can collects everything big and the bottom bag collects wood flour.

With an old grease can or 33 gallon trash can a pre-separator is an easy build. A piece of 3/8 plywood, 3 or 4 elbows and a couple of very short pieces of pipe. I even have a set up with mine so that a contractor's size trash bag is inside the separator. I just lift the bag out and replace it when emptying.

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post #10 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
Pre-separator experience.

I have a Jet DC 1 HP, 4" hose to devices, only 1 at a time, two bags top and bottom either 1 or .5 micron.

When I'm in the shop very regularly I'll empty the pre-separator about once every 3 weeks. It is a 33 gallon galvanized trash can. I will empty the bottom bag of the DC about once a year. The trash can collects everything big and the bottom bag collects wood flour.

With an old grease can or 33 gallon trash can a pre-separator is an easy build. A piece of 3/8 plywood, 3 or 4 elbows and a couple of very short pieces of pipe. I even have a set up with mine so that a contractor's size trash bag is inside the separator. I just lift the bag out and replace it when emptying.
Thanks for sharing about your set up. Sounds like you have a system you are happy about.
Hopefully I will become a happy dust collector too. 😊🙏
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post #11 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rency View Post
Which DC do you use ? Are you venting outside ? Do you have separator/filter post impeller?

How long have you been using your DC before you got those damages on the impeller?

Thanks
Harbor Freight 2hp, nope, nope, bout a month before the first marks started showing up. Ive had the collector for a few years now, still mostly works. Bit noisier, and again, easy to tell that the damage is going to knock a few years off the lifespan. Exhausting outside wont change the fact that sucking material through an impeller that, strictly speaking, shouldnt see material detracts from the lifespan. If youre going so far down the rabbit hole that youre talking about removing the filter to reduce back pressure and get more efficiency, then its worth considering ways to keep your collector running at its peak.

I dont give a crap about my tools, ive got no issues running them hard until they catastrophically fail, hence not stressing about the dents that raise a solid 1/4" in the housing. Once something blows a hole through the housing, ill weld it back together and hope it works still. Ditto for when i inevitably rip a vane off the impeller. If you like your tools, probably best to take better care of them then my setup provides

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post #12 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
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I don’t want to deal with a filter. By removing filter there will be less back pressure and better suction.
There is very little to deal with on the filter, I turn the handle on top a few times a year to knock the fines off of the inside, that is it.


What are you chasing here? Do you have an expectation that this will make a noticeable improvement?

The tools you mentioned using this on will have more issues at the collection point, than this will overcome IMO.

I like the idea of putting the collector out of the shop, I will do the same thing eventually.
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post #13 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 07:45 AM
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Are you sure you want a large fixed pipe at floor level? That will make for very difficult sweeping up and general cleaning, not to mention the varmint run you will create behind it.
Unless youre going to square box all that in?

Theres a reason ducting should be high and accessible.

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post #14 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rency View Post
Went and picked up the unit. Took all day cleaning it. The filter was not caked or anything, but the dude used the DC for fiber stuff. It had a lot of fiber dust everywhere. Cleaned up pretty well though. I have some pictures below after cleaning up.

Got all that for a a great deal. Let me just say it was not much more than the Harbor freight unit which I was considering at one point .

This one is 2017/03 model. The new ones are going right now on grizzly site for 535 plus 99 shipping and other sites have it for around 650. Even though I got the Super Deputy with my deal I may not be using it.
I would certainly use the dust deputy. I have a small one that I attach to my shop vac for jointing and planning. Hardly anything get through it into the vac. I made a thein separator for my 4 inch collector. It doesn't work as well but in a year very little gets into my HF 2 HP. I have the separator inside my shop and the motor, filter bag and plastic bag outside. I work out of a garage in LV so I don't have to worry much about removing heat :) If you don't want the dust deputy, contact me and maybe we can make a deal.
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post #15 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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There is very little to deal with on the filter, I turn the handle on top a few times a year to knock the fines off of the inside, that is it.
Not just the filter. The bag vs a trash can or bin collecting dust is way easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
What are you chasing here? Do you have an expectation that this will make a noticeable improvement?
Even if I cannot improve I don’t want to reduce the efficiency I could have.

I am not good with science. But simple logic tells me that if the filtering is effective in removing the micro dust it will reduce the air flow. So if I decide to do a pre separator and loose some flow I can gain it by removing the filter. Probably best scenario, the impeller and housing stays safer, no messing with a hanging bag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
The tools you mentioned using this on will have more issues at the collection point, than this will overcome IMO.
That I have to deal with regardless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
I like the idea of putting the collector out of the shop, I will do the same thing eventually
Saves space

Last edited by Rency; 05-05-2020 at 12:21 PM.
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post #16 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Exhausting outside wont change the fact that sucking material through an impeller that, strictly speaking, shouldnt see material detracts from the lifespan. If youre going so far down the rabbit hole that youre talking about removing the filter to reduce back pressure and get more efficiency, then its worth considering ways to keep your collector running at its peak.
I don’t feel like this as a rabbit hole. My dust collector has to be outside . So all my other decisions are affected by that fact. I don’t see any point in having the dust collector outside and still using filter. The increase in efficiency is an opportunity I have here.

Quote:
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I dont give a crap about my tools, ive got no issues running them hard until they catastrophically fail, hence not stressing about the dents that raise a solid 1/4" in the housing. Once something blows a hole through the housing, ill weld it back together and hope it works still. Ditto for when i inevitably rip a vane off the impeller. If you like your tools, probably best to take better care of them then my setup provides
I am thinking about some sort of pre separator. Don’t know yet. 😊

Thanks man.
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post #17 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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I would certainly use the dust deputy. I have a small one that I attach to my shop vac for jointing and planning. Hardly anything get through it into the vac. I made a thein separator for my 4 inch collector. It doesn't work as well but in a year very little gets into my HF 2 HP. I have the separator inside my shop and the motor, filter bag and plastic bag outside. I work out of a garage in LV so I don't have to worry much about removing heat 🙂 If you don't want the dust deputy, contact me and maybe we can make a deal.
I would have used the deputy. But the inlet port on this one is 5” and outlet is 6”. I don’t want 5” ducting. If it was 6” I would have used it.
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post #18 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Are you sure you want a large fixed pipe at floor level? That will make for very difficult sweeping up and general cleaning, not to mention the varmint run you will create behind it.
Unless youre going to square box all that in?

Theres a reason ducting should be high and accessible.
I don’t have a big shop or anything. This is just a 3/4 of a 2 car garage. All power tools are on one wall. The 6”main line is going to be half of the back wall length from where it enters and then one full side wall length. A L shape.

I was thinking of floor level because I already have an opening in the garage back wall at the floor level. Also from outside it looks neater if the wall has no pipe running up. You can see that wall from the street. If I do floor level I will square box the length of it on the back wall. The stuff against the wall are all on wheels so I can move them away when I need to clean there.

I am not hung up on the floor level idea though. I might end up doing mid wall or high near the ceiling or even through attic.

What do you mean by a varmint run though ? You are making me concerned here 😀

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post #19 of 26 Old 05-05-2020, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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BTW this guy that I bought the DC from has few more units in different HPs. He is going out of his business. His prices are very reasonable. You can get a great deal. In Southern California, Los Angeles area. If anyone is seriously considering getting one I can give you the contact info.
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post #20 of 26 Old 05-06-2020, 12:49 AM
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If you are using a round tube laid against the floor, you have a perfect corridor between the pipe and the wall / floor the whole length of the shop, where things from spiders to rats and snakes (or any local variants) can run around and breed in complete privacy. Sealing the wall opening will help, but will not cure the potential problem.
Then of course theres the dust and wood shavings that will settle in there and eventually become a fire hazard.
Not to mention the day that something gets sucked into the tube by accident and you have to remove EVERYTHING to get to the pipe (lol).

It might not look as pretty at high level, but it makes a whole lot of sense.

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