Professional Chef, Novice Woodworker Just Doing Research - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-03-2020, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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Professional Chef, Novice Woodworker Just Doing Research

Hi all!

Just a career chef here in NC who does professional sharpening on the side looking to get into some small projects at home and maybe at the community shop at one of the local universities.

My first goal is to make a kezuriki box used to shave fresh bonito flakes from a solid piece of katsuobushi. Think a planer blade mounted in the lid of a long cedar box with a small drawer to catch the flakes. Instead of spending $250 on a nice one, I figured why not buy a high carbon manual planer blade and make one in my spare time? I think it could be a fun and relatively simple project for a beginner.

It's great to be here and I'm looking forward to some education!

P.S. I'm also looking to see if anyone has the green 120 grit sharpening/grinding wheel they'd like to sell me. It's made specially (and now discontinued) by Highland Woodworking for the Makita 9820-2 made for sharpening everything from planer blades, chisels, and even kitchen knives.

The green wheels almost never come up on eBay and no one sells them new anymore. Was really hoping to find someone who had one in good shape and was willing to part with theirs.

Heck, if you're willing to part with the machine itself (a well taken care of Makita 9820-2) for a good price, I'd be thrilled. Thanks!
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-03-2020, 10:20 PM
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welcome aboard, Andy.
I am thinking the photo is just an example of one you want to make ?
I betcha that Chef Masaharu Morimoto has one !!
I am addicted to just about any kind of smoked fish - but have never
tried the fermented types. (I guess it is an acquired taste).
looking forward to seeing some of your projects.

.

there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.

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post #3 of 16 Old 08-03-2020, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Hi John! Thanks for the welcome.

You've actually probably had bonito flakes before but just didn't know it! It's what's used to steep/season many Japanese broths (like dashi stock used for miso soup) and sauces. If you've had Japanese food that was pleasantly smokey and very umami, it's probably due to bonito flakes. They also sell them pre-shaved, but freshly shaved is always superior - like fresh shaved parmesan as opposed to the powdered bits.

They're also used as a topping for foods like savory Japanese pancakes (Okonomiyaki) and savory octopus fritters/donut holes (takoyaki, one of my personal favorites).
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 08:58 AM
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Andy - my wife is Chinese and I have spent some time in China.
so there is really no telling what I have eaten without knowing what it was.

looking forward to seeing your shaved fish box - it will be the first for this forum.
as for the sharpening stone, I have the Woodtek version and it "appears" to have
the same type wheels.
I have the 400 & 1000 grit wheels. I broke one years ago and it may have been
the lower grit. but I just don't remember.
so you may find the green one by looking at other (cloned) brands.
good luck in your quest !!

oh - since these machines turn at a very low speed, you could consider making a
wheel out of a 3/4" plastic cutting board and glue Wet-or-Dry paper to it of any
grit you like. you can hollow out the center hole with a hand-held router.
(just thinking out loud here)

Professional Chef, Novice Woodworker Just Doing Research-s-l640.jpg

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post #5 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 09:18 AM
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Hi Andy, and welcome to WoodworkingTalk!

I use the dried bonito flakes to make udon soup at home. Yum! Fresh bonito flakes is beyond my skill and experience. ... Wait a minute. This is a woodworking forum. :-)
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post #6 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 09:26 AM
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I know nothing about those sharpeneing systems ....

But, there are many online places that sell vitrified green grinding wheels:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gree...hrome&ie=UTF-8


https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/T...RoC9A0QAvD_BwE

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 04:02 PM
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One of our members, mmwood, is an outstanding craftsman, artist and also a professional cook.

Tony B Retired woodworker, among other things.


"Strive for excellence and settle for completion" Tony B
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 04:46 PM
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Andy -

for the shaving blade-in-a-box - is the blade oriented at 90' to the slicing motion? or at an angle?
basically, how long does the blade need to be?


machine planer blades tend to be short fat thick stubby things with a large grind angle.
the grind angle may be way too "steep" to shave the bonito "as desired"


I would look for a harden tempered metal chunk of minimal thickness that you can grind/finish/hone to a 14-15' cutting angle.
my knee jerk reaction would be to sacrifice an old manual/hand cross cut saw blade. cut and sharpened to size....
broken/fractured (round) table saw blades is another source of thin/harden/tempered metal - but the question will be getting a straight width&length from a common 10" round blade.


the Makito stones appear to be 8.5 inches in diameter. other more 'common' stones tend to 7" diameter.
most of the 'non-brand-but-maybe-compatible' don't list the interior diameter - which...is important when it comes to 'fitting' them on a Makita.
thickness is a secondary issue - many ways to compensate for a thickness other than the OEM.
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post #9 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 05:08 PM
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I guess I was thinking along the line of the Mandoline vs a block plane blade.
a slanted blade would give a less problematic cut than a 90* position (IMO).
Examples of the Dried Fish Shaver

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there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.

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post #10 of 16 Old 08-04-2020, 06:14 PM
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it's been forever since I shaved a fish . . . methinks we need input from the OP...
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post #11 of 16 Old 08-05-2020, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
oh - since these machines turn at a very low speed, you could consider making a
wheel out of a 3/4" plastic cutting board and glue Wet-or-Dry paper to it of any
grit you like. you can hollow out the center hole with a hand-held router.
(just thinking out loud here)

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
But, there are many online places that sell vitrified green grinding wheels:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCT2 View Post
the Makito stones appear to be 8.5 inches in diameter. other more 'common' stones tend to 7" diameter.
most of the 'non-brand-but-maybe-compatible' don't list the interior diameter - which...is important when it comes to 'fitting' them on a Makita.
thickness is a secondary issue - many ways to compensate for a thickness other than the OEM.
So the Makita stones are 200mm x 75mm x 25mm (outer diameter x "arbor hole" diameter, wheel thickness), which is approx. 8in x 3in x 1in. To secure the wheel to the spindle, the grinding wheel is attached to a thin steel backplate which is tightened in with a lock nut.

I was seriously considering buying a Norton grinding wheel meant for a bench grinder, getting a diamond core/hole saw drill bit that was 3in wide & boring out the center arbor hole.

To stabilize it, I'd just ask a local machine shop to cut an 8" maybe 1/8" thick steel plate and I can use a serious (marine) epoxy or something to secure the bottom disk to the grinding wheel.

My New Questions, then would be...
1) Can I use any of those wheels in a wet grind application even though they're meant for a dry bench grinder? How different is the material used in their grinding wheels compared to their whetstones?
2) What abrasive medium(s) would be best? I'm mostly interested in coarser but quality green silicon carbide, ceramic aluminum oxide, or white/"pure" aluminum oxide. I've got medium and fine grits locked down (1000 and 6000 grits in knife-sharpening terms), but I get a lot of damaged & chewed up knives so removing material is a VERY essential time saver. Time is money.
3) I understand that *technically* silicon carbide is better for softer, nonferrous alloys and less so for carbon steel/stainless steel, but what's stopping me from using them in those applications? What are the concerns with silicon carbide?
4) Does anyone have any thoughts on Norton products? Should I be looking at any other brands?
5) I would consider other grinding wheel materials like CBN, but none of the wheels out there are designed to be sharpened on the flat, profile side of the grinding wheel in a flat-sharpening application? Everything I've seen are all designed to be used in an upright position like a standard bench grinder or a Tormek/Tormek clone.

Last edited by AndyLee; 08-05-2020 at 05:12 PM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-05-2020, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
Hi Andy, and welcome to WoodworkingTalk!

I use the dried bonito flakes to make udon soup at home. Yum! Fresh bonito flakes is beyond my skill and experience. ... Wait a minute. This is a woodworking forum. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCT2 View Post
Andy -

I would look for a harden tempered metal chunk of minimal thickness that you can grind/finish/hone to a 14-15' cutting angle.
my knee jerk reaction would be to sacrifice an old manual/hand cross cut saw blade. cut and sharpened to size....
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
I guess I was thinking along the line of the Mandoline vs a block plane blade.
a slanted blade would give a less problematic cut than a 90* position (IMO).

So you all are basically right.. a kezuriki functions almost exactly like a manual hand planer. In fact, Japanese woodworking hand planers (https://blog-diyjapanesejoinery.com/...e-plane-sizes/) are basically the same as the kezuriki box setup. The blades are the same as well as their orientation/how the blade is installed/situated. It's pretty obvious that at some point, someone who was cooking looked at his craftsman buddy and was like... "hey could I get one of those upside-down and mounted in a box?"

My big gripe with a traditional Japanese kezuriki/manual planer is that the blade is fit snugly using the friction of the slot cut to house the blade. It's not secured or adjusted by a tightening a screw or anything like that.

My design thought regarding that is to pick up a new manual hand planer blade with an adjustment slot and build housing similar to a western style manual hand planer or a mandolin slicer. That way you have the adjustment options and a higher-quality blade alloy for hardness/sharpness since you don't want anything besides tissue paper thin shavings.
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-05-2020, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
One of our members, mmwood, is an outstanding craftsman, artist and also a professional cook.
Very cool. Looking forward to meeting them!
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-05-2020, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCT2 View Post
Andy -

for the shaving blade-in-a-box - is the blade oriented at 90' to the slicing motion? or at an angle?
basically, how long does the blade need to be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
I guess I was thinking along the line of the Mandoline vs a block plane blade.
a slanted blade would give a less problematic cut than a 90* position (IMO).
Again, you guys are both basically correct. You don't shave bonito at a 90deg position - more like 45deg because of 2 factors:
1) You want to go for longer bonito flake strands because it's less work/less time consuming, and sometimes nice long ribbons are more aesthetic. When we're talking fine dining applications, plating is half the game.
2) Tough intermuscular tissue can be difficult to deal with when cutting/slicing fresh tuna or hard, mummified katsuobushi. Slicing at an angle is simply easier, especially in portions of the skipjack that are close to the tail where there is an especially high concentration of these connective tissues.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-05-2020, 06:42 PM
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there are replacement blades for mandolins - see
https://www.cuisinox.com/product-pag...e-for-mandolin
the intended device itself is given as 5" wide - my OXO of similar design I measured at 4.75" wide.


remove plastic mounting 'stuff' - use threadserts and set screws to control cutting thickness and lock the blade in place....
hard maple recommended....


I would imagine shaving the harden fish will be taxing on the blade - easy of removal for cleaning and sharpening may be a high priority.
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-12-2020, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
I guess I was thinking along the line of the Mandoline vs a block plane blade.
a slanted blade would give a less problematic cut than a 90* position (IMO).
Examples of the Dried Fish Shaver

Attachment 393433

.
I had a Mandolin, and after it cut (pretty seriously) my wife, and my 2 daughters fingers, i smashed it, and threw it away!!!
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