Upgrading my Incra 1000HD Mitre Gauge - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 12-29-2019, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Upgrading my Incra 1000HD Mitre Gauge

Hope this is the appropriate forum for this.

Living in Florida, and having a shop without A/C for 4 years, my Incra 1000HD Mitre Gauge is starting to rust. Mostly the bolts, but there is some spotting happening on the head, and the bar. The head & bar should be simple to clean & fix, the bolts not so much...

I do have an A/C now, and it's kept on dehumidify mode. BUT, I figured I had 3 options:
1> sandblast the existing rust off the bolts
2> order new bolts from Incra - but face potential rusting further on down the road
3> upgrade bolts to Stainless Steel

#1 could be an option, if I had a paint cabinet setup where I could immediately Cerakote the bolts after blasting... I don't, so that's a no-go. #3 is a pricey option, but for a Mitre Gauge that costs as much as this one does, it should come with Stainless Steel hardware from the factory IMO.

I found all the bolts needed at McMaster-Carr

I setup a new video channel for my woodworking related stuff, and
.

Why I'm worried about it now.... I just got a portable table saw for Christmas that I can use it with!
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Last edited by chaosdsm; 12-29-2019 at 08:25 PM.
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post #2 of 12 Old 12-29-2019, 08:40 PM
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Option 4. Clean the bolt heads with steel wool and keep then oiled.



Option 3 cannot be that expensive.


George
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post #3 of 12 Old 12-29-2019, 09:44 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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I hope you are correct....?

Some "portable" table saws do not have standard 3/4" wide by 3/8" deep miter slots. I hope your does!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 12 Old 12-29-2019, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
Option 4. Clean the bolt heads with steel wool and keep then oiled.



Option 3 cannot be that expensive.


George
Once rust begins, it's impossible to keep it away unless you can get all of it off, thus sandblasting. A good coat of oil can inhibit (but not stop) rust from forming, but once formed, rust can continue to grow under oil if you forget to wipe & renew regularly.

$50 with shipping. Would have been about $30 if I could have picked up small bags of the small bolts instead of boxes of 100 & picked up two 1/4x20 Hex bolts from Lowes instead of a box of 10 mil-spec bolts, but I was already getting the others from the same place....

RE: miter slot size: I know some of the older portable table saws had off-sized miter slots, but I don't know of any modern ones without a standard sized slot (at least none of the name brand ones, maybe some of the Harbor Freight class table saws???), & the Incra is adjustable for minor differences. Fits my saw just great after adjustment.
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post #5 of 12 Old 12-30-2019, 08:23 AM
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Hmmmm. Wonder why the top of my table saw(that once had some rust) does not just keep rusting??? Or those other tools I cleaned with steel wool and occasionally wipe with oil????


Usually when I want 4 or 5 bolts I do not buy in boxes of 100.


George
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post #6 of 12 Old 12-30-2019, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
Hmmmm. Wonder why the top of my table saw(that once had some rust) does not just keep rusting??? Or those other tools I cleaned with steel wool and occasionally wipe with oil????


Usually when I want 4 or 5 bolts I do not buy in boxes of 100.


George
RE: the bolts, I could have bought them per-piece online, but it would have cost more than the box of 100 after shipping, and no local stores (including 2 Fastenal locations) carry them in store. I could have ordered them delivered "free to store" through Fastenal, but last time I did that, it took almost 2 weeks for my bolts to arrive in store.

Many tools, like a table saw top, or wrenches, or sockets, screwdrivers, hammers..... are pretty easy to clean all rust off of, tiny nuts & bolts, not so easy, at least not with steel wool alone. And as long as you occasionally wipe them down, and/or keep them in an air conditioned space (especially if you live in a high humidity area), then there shouldn't be much of a problem.

I have a 40+ year old hammer that belonged to my grandfather. I cleaned it up nice & pretty about 6 years ago, and wiped it down with oil before putting it in a small plastic toolbox. Now it has more rust on it than when I cleaned it up. Yes, I should maintain my tools better, but I have a LOT of other stuff going on. At least I finally have a proper tool cabinet, & keep a rechargeable dessicant container in each drawer. Between that & the A/C hopefully most of my neglected tools should stay in decent condition.
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post #7 of 12 Old 12-31-2019, 12:38 AM
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Rust isnt a virus, it doesnt just keep growing. If you block access to the metal for water and oxygen, no new rust, even if there is rust already there.

Look at blue steel, i.e black rust. Surface is already rusted and would rust (red rust) badly very quickly were it not oiled. When oiled, no additional rust

I need cheaper hobby
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post #8 of 12 Old 12-31-2019, 02:29 AM
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If I need SS bolts, I just go to my local Ace Hardware. They have about every type of bolt ever.

In this day and age with cell phone plans just call the hardware stores in Tampa, Orlando or Daytona Beach. Also consider looking for "Space Hardware" in the Melbourne (Cape) area.

You may have to shorten some of the bolts or not use lock washers to gain the length needed. Use Loctite Red instead.

Rich
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post #9 of 12 Old 12-31-2019, 09:42 AM
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Where I live in Southern California (near NoThankyou), there are fastener stores all around. Spouse and I were driving home one evening last week through Santa Ana, and we passed three fastener stores in a half mile. I noticed and pointed it out to her. I go to a local family-owned shop near my home for stuff like that. They have a good selection of stainless steel fasteners. I needed an assortment of Torx in stainless and they had it on the shelf. Prices per item is high when you buy in low quantities, but the net total cost is relatively small compared with buying quantity 100 when you need only a few items.

I am surprised that you don't have more "open bin" fastener stores in Florida, where you don't have to buy quantity 100. Perhaps with humidity issues, it is harder or more expensive to do.
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post #10 of 12 Old 12-31-2019, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
Where I live in Southern California (near NoThankyou), there are fastener stores all around. Spouse and I were driving home one evening last week through Santa Ana, and we passed three fastener stores in a half mile. I noticed and pointed it out to her. I go to a local family-owned shop near my home for stuff like that. They have a good selection of stainless steel fasteners. I needed an assortment of Torx in stainless and they had it on the shelf. Prices per item is high when you buy in low quantities, but the net total cost is relatively small compared with buying quantity 100 when you need only a few items.

I am surprised that you don't have more "open bin" fastener stores in Florida, where you don't have to buy quantity 100. Perhaps with humidity issues, it is harder or more expensive to do.

We do in my part of Florida. And, we are in a less populated part where stores are fewer in number. Home Depot, Lowes, Ace, Fastenall, etc. are all open bin. We can also use Amazon where small quantities are sold.


George
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post #11 of 12 Old 01-01-2020, 03:06 PM
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The best upgrade to an Incra 1000 HD was ratchet bolts I put on it so I don't have to deal with the Allen screws

There is no app for experience
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post #12 of 12 Old 01-05-2020, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Rust isnt a virus, it doesnt just keep growing. If you block access to the metal for water and oxygen, no new rust, even if there is rust already there.
If that were true, all you would have to do to stop rust from spreading on your car is to knock the loose rust off, & paint over top of the remaining rust. Go ask a car paint pro specialist (not Econo or one of the other budget shops) why they bother with the time & expense of sand blasting all rust off a car before repainting.

Rust spreads on a molecular level as electrons transfer from iron molecules to the surrounding oxygen molecules, changing the makeup of the iron and turning it into rust. For the layman, this means that the free oxygen molecules already trapped by rust can transfer to other atoms of iron and create more rust, even under a protective layer of oil or paint. This used to be taught in high school chemistry class btw...


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Look at blue steel, i.e black rust. Surface is already rusted and would rust (red rust) badly very quickly were it not oiled. When oiled, no additional rust
You're thinking of cold-blued steel which offers no protection from rusting. Hot-blued steel is a man made process of artificially creating 'black rust' in a very controlled way. Black rust is the only form of rust that naturally hinders further oxidation, which is the reason it became a popular finish on firearms. It does not contain free oxygen molecules that can spread under oil. However, like all rust, it is porous which can allow oxygen to get in which is why regular oiling is recommended. Hot-bluing changes the surface molecules of steel to black rust - cold-bluing 'permanently' dyes the surface of steel to mimic the look of hot-bluing without the use of the caustic chemicals, however, because it's just a layer of dye it has no protective properties. Technically speaking: 'black rust' is formed through natural processes where blued steel is a man-made process of artificially recreating black rust (or the look of black rust in the case of cold bluing) in a very controlled manner.

Oil is a great barrier, but it is also a fluid, and with a few exceptions, remains a fluid. Over time, oil can run off leaving spots unprotected where fresh oxygen can now cause the rust to spread, even under the parts that are still protected by a layer of oil. I have a huge steel work table (3ft x 6ft) that was once my step dad's. He used to oil it about every 4 months to keep rust away. 6 months after he died (probably 8-10 months after the last oiling), there were spots of rust on the table top where the oil had flowed from the high spots to the low spots leaving the high spots exposed to oxygen & moisture, but even on the low spots that still had oil, there were trails of rust.

Take a look at part of a 22 rifle. The bolt was removed, cleaned, and protected with Break Free CLP after every time it was taken out & shot. However, the last time was about 2 years ago. The blued action(or receiver as some call it) and barrel of the rifle have never been oiled since I bought the rifle back in 2008. This is kept inside an air conditioned house so the humidity is MUCH lower than out in my wood shop. Despite having a protective layer of CLP on the bolt, and despite the action & barrel having never been oiled, there's more rust on the bolt, than on the action or barrel.



As you can see, the bolt clearly has a thin layer of rust over almost the entire exposed surface where the CLP has run off over the last 2 years, but there's only a couple flakes of rust on the blued steel which again has never been oiled. Where hot-blued steel WILL rapidly rust is if you leave the oils from your hands, or it gets rained on and you don't wipe it down, or leave it out in a very humid environment, but will still rust slower than bare steel in same environment. Cold process blued steel on the other hand will rust very easily because it's only mimicking the look of hot blued steel.

Here, you can see where runoff has occured on the blued steel part of the bolt. The top part appears matte / dull where the CLP has completely runoff after 2 years, then you have the shiny area below where CLP is still there, but no rust anywhere on the blued part of the bolt.


Here is an enhanced version that more clearly shows the line between oiled surface & where the oil has run off.


One could almost paraphrase Dr. Ian Malcom that like "life" (or a virus) "rust, uh, finds a way" Especially when I don't have time to oil everything down regularly.

Anyway, time to strip down the rifle, clean it up, & give Frog Lube a try.
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