Sled for Jointing on Table Saw - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Sled for Jointing on Table Saw

I did not do a search for this, so there might be a lot of discussion already.

I dont own a jointer but will need to joint the edges of my Hickory in the future. What are your guys' thoughts on this sled I see being built for use with your table-saw? The one where you have toggled hold down clamps to secure the piece to a sled.

I will have to joint 2" thick boards by 8' long. Thinking about routing an extra long miter slot on my out feed table to accommodate the travel of the sled.

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post #2 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorSeeker View Post
I did not do a search for this, so there might be a lot of discussion already.

I dont own a jointer but will need to joint the edges of my Hickory in the future. What are your guys' thoughts on this sled I see being built for use with your table-saw? The one where you have toggled hold down clamps to secure the piece to a sled.

I will have to joint 2" thick boards by 8' long. Thinking about routing an extra long miter slot on my out feed table to accommodate the travel of the sled.
The sleds I have seen use the saw fence, not the miter slots.

That is a thick board to use this method on, I would have suggested a router, but 2" is too thick for that method too.

I've made and used a fence based sled in the past, mine aren't that elegant, I just devise hold downs that I screw in place instead of toggle clamps. Mainly because I was doing in on the fly for a reason, and didn't have any toggle clamps to use at the time.
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post #3 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Here is an example of one if that helps.

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post #4 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 01:55 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Huh?

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Attachment 372401


Here is an example of one if that helps.



You have answered your own question. Yes, that's a good one, but too many toggle clamps, 3 is plenty.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #5 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 02:51 PM
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Attachment 372401


Here is an example of one if that helps.
That doesn't use the miter slot...
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 06:46 PM
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Wow! That's a long guide. You will be very close to maximum cut. I would use a sharp/clean full thickness (1/8") rip blade. You might want to wax your table just prior to the cut, so it slides easily. And consider feather boards to help keep it registered to the fence while cutting.

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post #7 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Will do on waxing the top of saw and the rip blade. I think this will work as long as I work all the bugs out first. I know itís not the preferred method but I have to use whatís available.
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post #8 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 10:09 PM
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using the miter gauge slot

If you make a sled that uses the miter gauge slot, the guide bar needs to be 8 ft long X 3/8" thick X 3/4" wide. I bought such a bar several years ago with the same intent. I never used it because it would require a similar slot in my outfeed table, and that's not gonna happen. The "straight line rip jig" by woodnthings, is what I made and you can find it with a google search. It works against the Unifence I have on my table saws., just keep it in constant contact and it will rip a straight edge.




The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-27-2019, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
If you make a sled that uses the miter gauge slot, the guide bar needs to be 8 ft long X 3/8" thick X 3/4" wide. I bought such a bar several years ago with the same intent. I never used it because it would require a similar slot in my outfeed table, and that's not gonna happen. The "straight line rip jig" by woodnthings, is what I made and you can find it with a google search. It works against the Unifence I have on my table saws., just keep it in constant contact and it will rip a straight edge.




One of your older posts is what I came across that got me reading about this tip. I love the idea. Thanks for the information!
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post #10 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 12:26 PM
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I admit, I have been lazy. I use a bunch of double stick tape and whatever straight board is laying around. It is usually a 3/4 inch board, which I don't like. I use two push blocks to press the sandwich down hard when I make the cut, and I normally stand to the side as I guide the cut using the table and fence.

Not stated above, but should be obvious: I arrange the boards to minimize the unsupported area of the jointed board. The cuts either start or end inside the blade's kerf with no waste at that point. As a general principle, this is not the time to remove a "bad" part of the board by extending the overhang. Better to square the board, remove the jig, flip the board, and make a straight, parallel cut on the other side to joint it. Now you can cut off the excess on the original side.

I like @woodnthings' design with the thin hardboard bottom much better than the one built by @OutdoorSeeker with its much thicker base. The less "open air" under the jointed board, the better.

Here is a really goofy idea that I might try when I build @woodnthings' jig: Leave a dovetail sticking out at each end. Rip some additional wide -ish sacrificial hardboard strips, but leave the ends with a matching dovetail to lock them in place on the jig. The sacrificial hardboard strips would provide support for the jointed board, and reduce or eliminate tearout. (Hmmm. Nice idea, but not enough payback to be worth the effort. Perhaps it stimulates ideas from others. Any takers?)

Last edited by Tool Agnostic; 02-28-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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post #11 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Not stated above, but should be obvious: I arrange the boards to minimize the unsupported area of the jointed board. The cuts either start or end inside the blade's kerf with no waste at that point. As a general principle, this is not the time to remove a "bad" part of the board by extending the overhang. Better to square the board, remove the jig, flip the board, and make a straight, parallel cut on the other side to joint it. Now you can cut off the excess on the original side.
I have not built one of these yet. Just researching the idea. The pic I posted was just one I took from google to show the basic idea.

I do like your thoughts on not ripping the side of the board to lose the bad spot. That would leave too much overhang, I agree.
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 01:27 PM
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Question Not sure what you mean .....

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I have not built one of these yet. Just researching the idea. The pic I posted was just one I took from google to show the basic idea.

I do like your thoughts on not ripping the side of the board to lose the bad spot. That would leave too much overhang, I agree.




In this photo all the boards have been straight lined on their left edge and stacked. The one in the saw is showing that the small off cut falls to the table harmlessly, no danger. The thin hardboard was chose to minimize the drop. Go for it!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 02:00 PM
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I prefer the carrier to be wide enough that the edge of it is against the blade, basically a zero clearance cut-off, this also helps to prevent the blade from grabbing the cut off as it drops down.

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post #14 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 05:19 PM
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In case it wasn't clear, what I was trying to say was that I like the short drop of the hardboard vs. the long drop of the 3/4 inch board. The less air below the jointed board, the better.

That said, I am still taping the jointed board to whatever is handy, usually a 3/4 inch board. :-(
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 06:06 PM
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not a good idea .....

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In case it wasn't clear, what I was trying to say was that I like the short drop of the hardboard vs. the long drop of the 3/4 inch board. The less air below the jointed board, the better.

That said, I am still taping the jointed board to whatever is handy, usually a 3/4 inch board. :-(

When your tape lets go and the board twists , it will kickback at you and that will hurt. Take the hour or so and make the jig and be safe. Order the toggles online, since I don't think H-F carries them any longer .... I donno?
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 07:34 PM
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Rail Saw

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorSeeker View Post
I did not do a search for this, so there might be a lot of discussion already.

I dont own a jointer but will need to joint the edges of my Hickory in the future. What are your guys' thoughts on this sled I see being built for use with your table-saw? The one where you have toggled hold down clamps to secure the piece to a sled.

I will have to joint 2" thick boards by 8' long. Thinking about routing an extra long miter slot on my out feed table to accommodate the travel of the sled.
My 2Ę...

We have to "edge rip" huge plank on a regular basis...Even with a commercial table saw in the shop, a "track saw" (commercial or "DIY") we have found to be a better option in our experience...Following the "old school" concept of: "tool through materials" when heavier than you can pick up and hold comfortably with one hand...

Tosa Tomo Designs
Confucius (551 BCE): "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand..." "...Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance..." Socrates:ďI cannot teach anybody anything. I can only help them think..."
Stephen Covey:"Seek to understand, before seeking to be understood..."

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post #17 of 21 Old 02-28-2019, 09:12 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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"rail saws" .....

An honest to God rail or beam saw with a 8 ft length capacity would cost 10K +
https://originalsaw.com/beamsaws/



There are a few cheaper alternatives
like this in a 100" version:
https://www.sawtrax.com/product/panel-saw-kit/


And various versions of track saws:
https://www.rockler.com/triton-tts14...-cut-track-saw


Finally, a 2 axis vertical panel saw which can rip/run horizontally would work like this one I built:








A simple jig like the one I posted cost about $50.00, so that's what I use.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-28-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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post #18 of 21 Old 03-01-2019, 08:32 AM
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Woodnthings, That is one sweet track saw!

Gary
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-01-2019, 08:59 AM
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Actually, it's panel saw!

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Woodnthings, That is one sweet track saw!

It would show up in a search as a vertical panel saw rather than a "track" saw which rides on tracks which sit on the bench top and is portable. Mine may have to be disassembled to move it out of the shop when that becomes necessary. It took about 3 months to design, build and test, but I used commonly available parts and bearings including the entire rotating motor and carriage from a radial arm saw. This allowed me to rotate the saw blade in 90 degree increments for crosscutting or ripping. There was no welding involved in this build on purpose, in order to keep it simple to make. There was a lot of metal sawing and drilling, however. I can weld fairly well, just chose not to for this project.
here's a link for the hold down toggles:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...downs&_sacat=0
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Last edited by woodnthings; 03-01-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-01-2019, 10:42 AM
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When your tape lets go and the board twists , it will kickback at you and that will hurt. Take the hour or so and make the jig and be safe. Order the toggles online, since I don't think H-F carries them any longer .... I donno? :vs_cool
I know, and I am acutely aware of it. Here is what I do to mitigate the risk:

* I use many pieces of tape. Most people would consider it excessive, but I like the assurance.
* Each piece of tape spans the full width of the board to be jointed. They are not merely short stubs near the edge.
* The wood is well supported throughout the cut.
* When making the cut, I press down firmly with two push blocks. I do understand that pressing down hard makes it more difficult to slide the boards through the cut, but I have not had a problem with that.
* I stand to the side when guiding the cut. My jobsite saw allows me to this safely and easily. It might not be possible or safe with a wider saw table.
* I hate to say this, but if there is a kickback, the board will be ejected into a cinder block wall.

The honest truth is you are absolutely right. I should build the sled (and several other sleds). My problem is it takes willpower to avoid "I need it now, so I will do one more jointing the old way." That's especially true when Spouse is waiting for projects to complete, ready to hang. I have several projects in progress now, and the weather has not cooperated.

Someday I would like to have a simple jig that uses a hand plane to joint the boards. It would avoid the table saw altogether. A true long bed jointer would be nice (I shared one with a roommate a long time ago), but I don't have the space for it right now, so I get by with other solutions. I bought a planer first, and have never regretted that choice.

P.S. Skilled woodworkers can clamp a board, manually run a hand plane along the edge, and get a perfectly straight, 90 degree jointed edge when they're done. Furthermore, they do it without removing a lot of wood.

I keep practicing on scrap, but the skill eludes me. I will keep practicing until I am gone. Someday perhaps. In the meantime, I think a hand plane jointer jig is the future solution. My manual hand plane problems are:

* I can square up portions of the edge, but a perfect square edge end-to-end is a challenge.
* Even if the edge is square, it must also be straight from end-to-end. That is a challenge, too!
* Finally: There is no board left when I manage to achieve that perfect edge. :-(

Practice, practice, practice.
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Last edited by Tool Agnostic; 03-01-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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