Continuous 3/4" Dovetail required in the back of molding or trim - Page 5 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #81 of 91 Old 04-09-2014, 09:54 PM
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Just as a mental exercise, how about one pass down 3 table saws with an auto-feed attached? One with a dado set to hog out the middle. Next with the blade left tilted at dovetail angle for one side. Last pass use a right-tilt saw for the other side of the dovetail. Custom-ground blades could make a nice clean finished half-dove cut. Daisy-chain the saws in line to run trim continuously through. One person to feed it. One person to catch and stack.
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post #82 of 91 Old 04-09-2014, 10:10 PM
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But again.....utilizing saws where adjusting the cabinets to keep them inline is not the way a production operation should run....Very difficult to keep all 3 saws in line perfectly...

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #83 of 91 Old 04-09-2014, 10:21 PM
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best method yet....JMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DThinker View Post
Just as a mental exercise, how about one pass down 3 table saws with an auto-feed attached? One with a dado set to hog out the middle. Next with the blade left tilted at dovetail angle for one side. Last pass use a right-tilt saw for the other side of the dovetail. Custom-ground blades could make a nice clean finished half-dove cut. Daisy-chain the saws in line to run trim continuously through. One person to feed it. One person to catch and stack.
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Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
But again.....utilizing saws where adjusting the cabinets to keep them inline is not the way a production operation should run....Very difficult to keep all 3 saws in line perfectly...
It may be "trcky' to get the blades alighned in the vertical position of course, but once that is done it's a no brainer. This is not "Swiss jewerlry" just a freakin' dovetail for a widgit. It need not be all that precise. I have 3 saws connected across, a different animal than back end to front, but obviously not impossible. And they need not be $3,00.00 cabinet saws just good quality and continuous duty, even though the kerf is only 3/16" deep requiring very little power.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #84 of 91 Old 04-10-2014, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DThinker View Post
Just as a mental exercise, how about one pass down 3 table saws with an auto-feed attached? One with a dado set to hog out the middle. Next with the blade left tilted at dovetail angle for one side. Last pass use a right-tilt saw for the other side of the dovetail. Custom-ground blades could make a nice clean finished half-dove cut. Daisy-chain the saws in line to run trim continuously through. One person to feed it. One person to catch and stack.
Just my opinion but 3 table saws in line is like 9 feet of table, while 3 cheaper but quality routers could fit easily in an 1&1/2" thick plywood table with laminate,less than half of that space.
Gang saws are a much simpler proposition.
Since stock-feeders are also generally short, you would need one for each saw, because accuracy really would count for attachment to work properly.
Tilting dado blades 14 degrees also cuts a 14 degree angle deeper into the top of the cut, leaving a peak on each side or one in the middle.
Does this work with the attachment system which has yet to be described in any detail?
With either system you'd want to runs reasonably slow, I think one person could feed and catch also.
This is just to see if there is a market for this, if it catches on, then you could justify spending thousands on an industrial set-up?
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post #85 of 91 Old 04-10-2014, 09:29 PM
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no argument from me, however...

The router bits would overheat after a few thousand feet, maybe sooner, losing their edge. whereas the table saw blades will run much cooler and last much longer because many more teeth are involved in the cut than on a small 2 sided router bit. It's definitely cheaper to set up 3 routers on a large surface of particle board and will definitely take up less floor space than 3 table saws. It's possible a combination of routing and sawing would work most efficiently...I donno, and I'm not gonna try it either to find out.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #86 of 91 Old 04-10-2014, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
The router bits would overheat after a few thousand feet, maybe sooner, losing their edge. whereas the table saw blades will run much cooler and last much longer because many more teeth are involved in the cut than on a small 2 sided router bit. It's definitely cheaper to set up 3 routers on a large surface of particle board and will definitely take up less floor space than 3 table saws. It's possible a combination of routing and sawing would work most efficiently...I donno, and I'm not gonna try it either to find out.
You may be right, I'm thinking they have a chance since they are just removing one side each of the dovetail part of the much larger slot.
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post #87 of 91 Old 04-10-2014, 10:09 PM
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The system needs to register on one side. The bottom. Therefore one could easily set up many different profiles.

The router wouldnt make it through the first day. It would over heat in about 1 to 2 hours. Dull in 200 feet.

I've ran molding and no one does it with a router.

You can lease a molding machine and profile grinder.

BUT.

Logistics alone would put the price through the roof and you couldn't beg someone to buy it.

There are more than a hundred different profiles being sold now.

If the OP had designed a nail gun that rolled along the floor and allowed the installer stand while he worked, he'd have something.

Maybe a paint machine that would paint trim without cutting in or masking.

Nail gun that filled the hole too.

Al

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post #88 of 91 Old 04-11-2014, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DThinker View Post
Just as a mental exercise, how about one pass down 3 table saws with an auto-feed attached? One with a dado set to hog out the middle. Next with the blade left tilted at dovetail angle for one side. Last pass use a right-tilt saw for the other side of the dovetail. Custom-ground blades could make a nice clean finished half-dove cut. Daisy-chain the saws in line to run trim continuously through. One person to feed it. One person to catch and stack.
I am beginning to think that this is probably the best way to go as well. I would have to make sure everything is lined up with one fence etc.. I'm trying to start low budget as there is no way of even knowing if the patent idea will really fly or not in the market place. Will need to get some reasonably sturdy saws. I suppose I could just use separate fences on each table and have them very close together (and in close alignment) and with a separate feed on each it should feed right through, what do you think?
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post #89 of 91 Old 04-11-2014, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
But again.....utilizing saws where adjusting the cabinets to keep them inline is not the way a production operation should run....Very difficult to keep all 3 saws in line perfectly...
I agree in a large scale operation this would only be the poor boy, upfront attempt at making a continuous dovetail. Obviously a full fledged moulder would be the way to go.
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post #90 of 91 Old 04-11-2014, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzguy View Post
Just my opinion but 3 table saws in line is like 9 feet of table, while 3 cheaper but quality routers could fit easily in an 1&1/2" thick plywood table with laminate,less than half of that space.
Gang saws are a much simpler proposition.
Since stock-feeders are also generally short, you would need one for each saw, because accuracy really would count for attachment to work properly.
Tilting dado blades 14 degrees also cuts a 14 degree angle deeper into the top of the cut, leaving a peak on each side or one in the middle.
Does this work with the attachment system which has yet to be described in any detail?
With either system you'd want to runs reasonably slow, I think one person could feed and catch also.
This is just to see if there is a market for this, if it catches on, then you could justify spending thousands on an industrial set-up?
I would like to keep the bottom of the dovetail flat if possible because it then starts to limit what models and types of trim you can use the idea on. If the dovetail is flat on the bottom there is less meat taken out of the back of molding and therefore the trim will be stronger with the shallowest profile possible. Instead of three table saws in line, would it make sense to just try to line up two saws and have blades manufactured for them that have about a 3/8" thickness but then have them ground to 14 degrees and with opposite tilting blades it should be able to accomplish a true dovetail?
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post #91 of 91 Old 04-11-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simtrim View Post
I would like to keep the bottom of the dovetail flat if possible because it then starts to limit what models and types of trim you can use the idea on. If the dovetail is flat on the bottom there is less meat taken out of the back of molding and therefore the trim will be stronger with the shallowest profile possible. Instead of three table saws in line, would it make sense to just try to line up two saws and have blades manufactured for them that have about a 3/8" thickness but then have them ground to 14 degrees and with opposite tilting blades it should be able to accomplish a true dovetail?
Your original question was how to make the DT. You could set up a router with a DT bit, table and a power feed, and machine it with a single pass.





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