Anyone have advice on how to "drive" this nut into a block of maple? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have advice on how to "drive" this nut into a block of maple?

Hello all. My latest shop project has been building a bench dog vise for my existing workbench. The wood i used is hard maple. Im using a 9" press screw that I got off of Leevalley.com, item #13F1701. The problem is, when i go to "drive" the nut into the 1" hole of my block, the wood just doesn't bear the pressure. You can see a picture of the nut and my two attempts thus far in the pictures i've attached. The nut is clearly bigger than the 1" hole that the description says is necessary. I've already gone through these two blocks, and I don't have a lot of my 3-layer maple block left. In both attempts, I simply tried hitting the nut in wth a hammer. Any advice on how I can drive this nut into my block of wood without it breaking?


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post #2 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 02:50 PM
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What ever it takes you have to make the hole match the nut. This may take some special tools to fine tune the hole. The hole needs to be mortised so the nut nearly drops into the hole and glue it in with epoxy. I would probably end up finishing out the hole with wood carving chisels. It would also help if the grain of the wood ran perpendicular to the nut.
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Does this mean I should just get a larger diameter bit? The nut has a diameter of one inch, but it has these two raised extrusions on opposite sides that are made to somehow keep it wedged in the block.


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post #4 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 03:16 PM
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Measure the nut from top to bottom and see if it's the same. If so get a bit that size. Then you will need to cut a groove down the middle with a dremel tool or keyhole saw. If the nut is smaller at the end shown you might get a paddle bit and grind it to match.
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post #5 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, so the dremel tool. What is the specific name of the bit that I should use to perform this operation?


~Geoffrey
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 03:42 PM
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Maybe lightly groove the side of the hole where the ribs on the nut are then epoxy it. Was the block clamped when you tried driving the nut?

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post #7 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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No, it is three layers of maple glued together


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post #8 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 04:36 PM
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I've got an idea. Take a compass and mark the 1" circle out, now take a small drill bit and drill down on each side of that circle, this will make the grooves for those wings on the nut. After drilling the small holes/grooves now you can drill the 1" hole. Then just cover the thing in epoxy and push it in.

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post #9 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone.


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post #10 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 07:16 PM
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I think I have a better ideal than using a dremel tool to make the groove to prevent the nut from rotating. Use a drill press and drill two little holes first.
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post #11 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 07:37 PM
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Thank you for drawing my idea.

~Mark

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post #12 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 07:53 PM
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Steve's right, if the grain ran the other way you'd have a lot better chance.
The way you're orientating it, it's bound to split, maybe even later, when you tighten the vise.
Glue it up the other way, alternating grain direction like plywood.

Last edited by bzguy; 01-11-2016 at 07:59 PM.
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post #13 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwelveFoot View Post
Thank you for drawing my idea.
Sorry, I didn't see your post. We just had the same idea.
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 09:42 PM
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I sort of figured that, I was only partly sarcastic when I said thanks.

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post #15 of 18 Old 01-14-2016, 03:22 PM
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I don't know why people always have to do things the hard way. That "nut" is OBVIOUSLY intended to be fit into a clearance hole that is LARGER than the nut. Drill, chisel, sand, whatever to make the hole a "drop in" fit. I would drill two small diameter holes for those two keys first. Then drill the central hole and use chisels or sanding drum to make it an easy insertion. BUT IT IS NOT A PRESS FIT.

And those two slots are OBVIOUSLY intended to have two round head screws inserted in them to hold the "nut" in place. I would use washers too. I would definitely do that. You can add epoxy in addition to that if you wish.
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-14-2016, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
I don't know why people always have to do things the hard way. That "nut" is OBVIOUSLY intended to be fit into a clearance hole that is LARGER than the nut. Drill, chisel, sand, whatever to make the hole a "drop in" fit. I would drill two small diameter holes for those two keys first. Then drill the central hole and use chisels or sanding drum to make it an easy insertion. BUT IT IS NOT A PRESS FIT.

And those two slots are OBVIOUSLY intended to have two round head screws inserted in them to hold the "nut" in place. I would use washers too. I would definitely do that. You can add epoxy in addition to that if you wish.
You know, that tirade would make sense if the instructions included didn't say to drill an undersized hole and press the nut in, as the OP mentioned they did. Being that the company that wrote the instructions also made the kit, I'd suspect they know what they're talking about.

To the topic at hand, space, I'd suggest finding a way to press the buy into the recommended sized hole, rather than hammering it. A clamp, vise or what have you should force the nut I to the hole without imparting any lateral force that would cause the wood to split. If you have a slightly softer wood, ash say, I'd try that as well, as it would deform and accept the nut a little easier

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post #17 of 18 Old 01-14-2016, 10:21 PM
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I apologize if my post sounded like a tirade. It is just frustrating to see people working against the materials they have.

As for the instructions telling him to use a force fit, I guess I did not read that. Well, upon rereading the thread, it is just not there so I could not read it. Nowhere does the OP say that the instructions say to press it in. Apparently they do say to drill a 1" hole. But that part is a casting and I can see an irregular surface. It is not a precision fit and without a trip to a metal lathe, it will not be. That probably means that they are going to vary from batch to batch and even from individual casting to the next individual casting.

If the instructions say to force it into a 1" hole, then they are not good instructions. Frankly, this is a poor, poor design. That is demonstrated by his two blocks of split maple. I wonder what wood the instructions specify. Or do they bother to specify any particular kind?

I will say it again, that kind of part is OBVIOUSLY not intended for a precision fit. It is not intended for a force fit. PERIOD. If you insist on doing it that way, then break out the digital calipers and take a number of measurements of the OD. Take them at different places along the cylindrical part and at different angles. You will find that it is tapered and it is NOT round to any great degree. You are trying to force a non round, tapered part into a 1" cylindrical hole. Is it any wonder that the wood is splitting?

If you are going to insist on a force fit, I would suggest switching to a softer wood, like pine and soak it in water for 24 to 48 hours before trying to drive it in. But it will probably just split again when the pine dries out.

The guy (or gal) who designed the pattern for the casting apparently knew how the part should have been used. It should be inserted into a larger hole with clearance all around and held in place with some wood screws. That's why there are two tabs with slots for those screws. And, as I said, add epoxy if you want to. I probably would.

The person who wrote the instructions had his mind on "Miller Time", not on a quality product.

I hope this does not qualify as another tirade.



Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
You know, that tirade would make sense if the instructions included didn't say to drill an undersized hole and press the nut in, as the OP mentioned they did. Being that the company that wrote the instructions also made the kit, I'd suspect they know what they're talking about.

To the topic at hand, space, I'd suggest finding a way to press the buy into the recommended sized hole, rather than hammering it. A clamp, vise or what have you should force the nut I to the hole without imparting any lateral force that would cause the wood to split. If you have a slightly softer wood, ash say, I'd try that as well, as it would deform and accept the nut a little easier
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-15-2016, 02:03 PM
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Are we sure the nut has to be recessed? Perhaps the 1" hole is meant only to accommodate the screw, and the nut should be turned around and attached with screws. It does seem unlikely that the instructions would have you drill an undersized hole. As we're seeing, wood does not gracefully take press fits.

Edit: Whoops, I see from the item that the screw is intended to be recessed. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...38,43845,31138

Last edited by MJJ; 01-15-2016 at 02:09 PM.
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