Drying green pine - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 Old 12-31-2019, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 46
View Dylan JC Buffum's Photo Album My Photos
Drying green pine

I've never dried green wood before. I've never worked green wood before either, except a few scraps here and there. Usually I buy kiln dried wood.

My sister-in-law's family finally broke ground on their house a couple of weeks ago. They are using the pines (probably Eastern White Pine?) they cut down as timbers, so the logs were all milled on site. I inherited a pile of scraps, some quite sizable, all 100% green. They range in thickness from 1" to 4", and in width from 1" to 12".

They're currently stacked out of the rain, in the back of my shop. I've got them separated with sticks to air dry. The shop is not climate controlled. This is North Carolina, so temps range from low 30's in the winter, to high 90's in the summer. Humidity is always generally high.

So, how long before this wood is conceivably usable? I was thinking of making simple 3- or 4-legged stools. Turn some spindles, and put a seat on top. Wedge the ends of the spindles for joinery. Something like this: https://www.rockler.com/turn-shop-st...-spindles-seat

If I cut the boards into rough pieces for these stools, will they (a) dry more quickly, (b) warp and check less?

Last edited by Dylan JC Buffum; 12-31-2019 at 10:09 AM.
Dylan JC Buffum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 12-31-2019, 11:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 779
View Terry Q's Photo Album My Photos
You can build those stools out of green wood, no need to wait the 1 to 3 years for the wood to dry.
Terry Q is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 01-02-2020, 11:12 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 14
View High_Water's Photo Album My Photos
I've always heard that pine is "easy to dry," the reason for that (I think) being the moisture content of green heartwood for certain species is relatively low. Of course the counter to that is the MC of the sapwood is relatively high. I always let my stuff dry for a long time, but that's only because it takes me forever to get around to doing anything. I would think if you're using heartwood it would be safe to use fairly soon, but if sapwood it might take a while, and I don't know if you can tell the difference by looking at it. Depending on how many stools you're making you may be able to store some material indoors for faster drying to a lower MC than what you will achieve in a shop. As for cutting boards to rough dimensions first I would guess - yes to drying faster, probably no to more checking, and probably no to more warping if you get them stacked and weighted down pretty good. In my experience the warping gets worse the farther you are from the pith and doesn't necessarily relate to how it stacks and dries, again the converse to that is you always see checking at the pith. Might be worth investing in a moisture meter, cheaper ones run 30-40 bucks and are worth the money for occasional use in my opinion. I'm still new to milling and drying and I've probably spent more time reading about it than actually doing it so take this for what its worth.

(some handy info https://www.researchgate.net/publica...erties_of_Wood)

Nathan
High_Water is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 Old 01-11-2020, 01:48 PM
bikeshooter
 
bikeshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 503
View bikeshooter's Photo Album My Photos
I have used Darrens plan for several years with pretty good results. From what I understand pine requires a high temp to set the pitch - as I remember it's about 140 degrees or more. That's higher than I can get without using an additional heat source so If I need pine I just go to Lowes.

Wood will air dry to different levels in different locations of the country. For me in North Florida that is around 13% M/C at a rate of 4/4 (1 inch) per year. I found a spot in Arizona where the same dimension will dry to 3% also in 1 year.

I've also found that letting your logs air dry for a while will reduce warping, checking etc after milling. A least a year out of direct sun.

I suggest you search the posts by this member. He's been at it for quite a while but hasn't been here lately.
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/memb...see-tim-17187/

Good info here
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas..._Moisture.html

When running my kiln, I use this http://www.csgnetwork.com/emctablecalc.html to check on the estimated M/C of the wood inside.
When it gets to a 6% level I usually let it run another 2 weeks for it to stabilize then turn off the D/H for a few days for a slow cool down.
It only takes 90 degrees and 30% R/H inside the kiln to dry wood to 6% - eventually. I use an indoor outdoor thermometer with the outdoor sensor inside the kiln.
bikeshooter is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 01-13-2020, 07:13 PM
Junior Member
 
BTS1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 2
View BTS1987's Photo Album My Photos
I'm so happy to have found this forum tonight. I just inherited a pile of green pinewood and have no experience working with it. Thanks for all the advice.
BTS1987 is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 01-13-2020, 07:41 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,857
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeshooter View Post
I suggest you search the posts by this member. He's been at it for quite a while but hasn't been here lately.
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/memb...see-tim-17187/
.
Tim is unfortunately no longer at the site. I dunno how much I can say before the hammer swings back and nails me instead, but there was an issue with a moderator a while back abusing power, Tim spoke out and the hand of fairness punished them both.

You might still try messaging him, Tim is a great guy and THE guy to go to for any questions involving green wood, but unfortunately I wouldn't hold your breath waiting

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 01-13-2020, 07:43 PM
Moderator
 
John Smith_inFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,721
View John Smith_inFL's Photo Album My Photos
Welcome Curtiss
what part of the world are you in?
tell us about your hobbies, shop, etc.
we like to see photos of projects you make.

.

.
difalkner likes this.

I am a painter: that's what I do, I like to paint things.
John Smith_inFL is online now  
post #8 of 22 Old 01-14-2020, 08:05 AM
Member
 
LilysDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: DeKalb County, Il
Posts: 42
View LilysDad's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeshooter View Post
I have used Darrens plan for several years with pretty good results. From what I understand pine requires a high temp to set the pitch - as I remember
I have heard this before and it makes me wonder how they dried pine in colonial times.
LilysDad is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 01-14-2020, 08:16 AM
Wood machinist
 
difalkner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Louisiana
Posts: 4,083
View difalkner's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Tim is unfortunately no longer at the site. I dunno how much I can say before the hammer swings back and nails me instead, but there was an issue with a moderator a while back abusing power, Tim spoke out and the hand of fairness punished them both.

You might still try messaging him, Tim is a great guy and THE guy to go to for any questions involving green wood, but unfortunately I wouldn't hold your breath waiting
You can reach Tim at his website - TSM Farms

David

David

Curly Wood Shop on Etsy
David Falkner - Woodworking YouTube channel and Instagram
Our music at church - current videos Airline Baptist BC Facebook Live
Romans 3:23
difalkner is online now  
post #10 of 22 Old 01-14-2020, 09:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Troy Michigan USA
Posts: 1,040
View gmercer_48083's Photo Album My Photos
I think during colonial times, trees were cut in the winter when there was snow and transported on sleighs with oxen or horses to the site. where there was no snow they used a large 2 wheel cart with one end of the log slung up and dragged the log.

Gary
gmercer_48083 is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 01-14-2020, 09:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 396
View DrRobert's Photo Album My Photos
Dylan, I strongly recommend treating the wood for insects. Pine is particularly susceptible to borers.


Insecticides will not work. Use a borate termite based product. I use Bora Care.


General rule of thumb for air drying is 1 year / inch of thickness.


You can rough turn leg stock from green wood. Greatly speeds up drying time.
bikeshooter likes this.

Robert
DrRobert is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 01-14-2020, 11:53 AM
bikeshooter
 
bikeshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 503
View bikeshooter's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
Dylan, I strongly recommend treating the wood for insects. Pine is particularly susceptible to borers.


Insecticides will not work. Use a borate termite based product. I use Bora Care.


General rule of thumb for air drying is 1 year / inch of thickness.


You can rough turn leg stock from green wood. Greatly speeds up drying time.
Thanks for this - totally slipped my old mind. I used a couple of halogen lamps for a 24 hour 'bug kill' run
bikeshooter is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 01-17-2020, 08:03 AM
Member
 
LilysDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: DeKalb County, Il
Posts: 42
View LilysDad's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmercer_48083 View Post
I think during colonial times, trees were cut in the winter when there was snow and transported on sleighs with oxen or horses to the site. where there was no snow they used a large 2 wheel cart with one end of the log slung up and dragged the log.
What I asked was how they driedpine without a heated kiln.
LilysDad is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 01-17-2020, 11:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Troy Michigan USA
Posts: 1,040
View gmercer_48083's Photo Album My Photos
Stickered and air dried.

Gary
gmercer_48083 is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 01-17-2020, 12:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 779
View Terry Q's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilysDad View Post
I have heard this before and it makes me wonder how they dried pine in colonial times.


Most the time colonials built with green wood. If you bought some land somewhere and needed to clear the land, build a house, a barn, and all the other out buildings, would you cut down the trees and wait years to use them? Of course not, you cut them and built a house with green wood. You built your table and benches and bed and shelving all out of green wood too.

There is no reason you canít build with green wood, you just have to plan on the wood moving when you build it. The utilitarian stools like were shown in the original post were always made out of green wood.
Terry Q is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 01-18-2020, 07:53 AM
Member
 
LilysDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: DeKalb County, Il
Posts: 42
View LilysDad's Photo Album My Photos
So . . . everyone just sat on sticky furniture?
LilysDad is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 01-18-2020, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Troy Michigan USA
Posts: 1,040
View gmercer_48083's Photo Album My Photos
A tree in log form is basically two parts, The inner diameter is heartwood, and the outer diameter is sapwood. The sapwood was generally split or sawn away as waste. Sapwood is the living part of a tree that carries nutrients to feed the tree. The heartwood id the dead part of the tree that is ridged and usually slightly darker in color. Sapwood is just that...sappy. Sapwood also attracts bugs and woodworms because it still has nutrients for them to feed on. Many times you will find sap laden boards even if it is kiln dried, due to mass production at the saw mill.

Gary

Last edited by gmercer_48083; 01-18-2020 at 09:25 AM.
gmercer_48083 is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 01-23-2020, 11:50 AM
bikeshooter
 
bikeshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 503
View bikeshooter's Photo Album My Photos
A lot of good info here

https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f26/...cess-s-131825/

"The LORD inhabits the praises of HIS people."


r.i.p. Marco Simoncelli - 10-23-2011
bikeshooter is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 04:52 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
View DrGeorge's Photo Album My Photos
Drying Pine

Greetings, I dried about 3000Bf of pine outside using 1" stickers every 4 ft and stacked 5 ft high. I covered the piles with nylon privacy fence found on Amazon to keep the direct sunlight off and let moisture escape. After 1 year I started using it and it did not Bow or warp and was great wood the work with. Could have used it earlier my guess. Pine is an easy wood to air dry.

I did spray pesticide on and around to keep the bugs off, I used Malathion I believe.

Happy woodworking
DrGeorge
DrGeorge is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 07:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dickinson, Tx. / Somerville, TX
Posts: 3,742
View Tony B's Photo Album My Photos
Building furniture and barns out of green wood uses a slightly different technique than kiln dried wood. With green wood, they take advantage of the wood shrinking and holding tighter around mortise and tenons and notched and pegged stuff.
With air drying, the general 1" per year is used as a rough guide. From what I remember, which is not much, air drying in most of the US will only get down to about 13% MC.
There are 2 types of water/moisture in the logs. One is free water and the other is bound water. Picture the end of a board as a bunch of soda straws. The free water is the water that runs through the straw and readily dries off - comparatively speaking. The bound water is in the actual cells that make up the straw and this is the stuff that wont normally dry without a kiln. You can disregard some of this if you live in the desert.
Anyway, that is how I remember it so feel free to shoot me down.

Tony B



Retired woodworker, amongst other things, Sold full time cruising boat and now full time cruising in RV. Currently in Somerville, Tx
Tony B is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome