Thoughts on this Craftsman 10" Table Saw? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 08-03-2010, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thoughts on this Craftsman 10" Table Saw?

Has anybody used this saw? It will be going on sale for $199 this weekend and it is normally $299. Its rated "3 hp" . Here is a link to the saw http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_101...ype=L2&prdNo=2

I dont need a big fancy contractors saw because i dont do anything real big. I mainly do around the house stuff and make adirondack chairs. Also i am on a limited budget.
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post #2 of 21 Old 08-03-2010, 02:09 PM
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I seem to recall looking at that one and deciding I didn't like it, but I can't remember why. I wound up with a Ryobi BT21, which has been great so far. There's a craftsman clone of of the Ryobi BT3100 -- I think it's the 21829 -- which I would buy if I were doing it over, but it's a fair bit more expensive.

Based on the reviews, it sounds like the craftsman you pointed to is pretty much non-standard in a lot of ways, and can't easily take a dado blade, which may have been why I didn't buy it; half the reason I bought a table saw is so I could use a dado stack. (And while I've only needed it once since then, it was totally worth it!)

If you wind up buying from Home Depot, look for a Harbor Freight coupon; there's usually one in the back of Popular Mechanics. Spend $6 on the magazine, save 20% on the saw. 8-) My local Home Depot takes them without any complaints.
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post #3 of 21 Old 08-03-2010, 07:55 PM
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Not intending to insult anyone's saw, but I can't think of a worse way to spend $200 on a saw. It's too small, too light, too sloppy, too loud, too unreliable, too weak, has little resale value, and isn’t cost effective to fix or upgrade. You’ll outgrow it in short order. It’s exactly the type of saw that many of us fell prey to when we didn’t know any better...which is exactly who that saw is marketed toward.

You'd be far better off either buying a full sized used saw or saving your money until you can buy a good full size new saw. Full size cast iron saws with belt drive induction motors within your budget go on Craigslist in our area every few days, and they have every advantage over that particular Cman saw.

19-5/8” deep leaves very little operating room in front of the blade….literally just a few inches. In contrast, a standard contractor saw, hybrid, or cabinet saw is 27” deep, which leaves about a foot to maneuver in front of the blade. It weighs in at 72-1/2#...in contrast to 250-300# for a contractor saw, 300-450# for a hybrid, and 500-600# for a cabinet saw. It’s very unnerving to have a saw move or tip on you when you trying to make a cut…it’s also dangerous. Unless the need for portability is critical, there are lots of advantages in favor of a heavier machine. You'll pay $200+, it won't do a very good job, and will be worth ~ $100 next week. A used saw for the same price will do a better job, last longer, is safer to use, can be easily upgraded, fixed fairly easily if necessary, and is still worth roughly what you paid for it...more if you do some upgrades.

Last edited by knotscott; 08-03-2010 at 07:59 PM.
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post #4 of 21 Old 08-15-2010, 04:03 PM
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I have this saw and have'nt had any problems with it. Plenty of power. Have done some dados and general cross-cutting and ripping.

Most of the "serious woodworkers" would probably shun this saw but for occasional use as you mentioned it should perform just fine.
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post #5 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnew17 View Post
Has anybody used this saw? It will be going on sale for $199 this weekend and it is normally $299. Its rated "3 hp" . Here is a link to the saw http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_101...ype=L2&prdNo=2

I dont need a big fancy contractors saw because i dont do anything real big. I mainly do around the house stuff and make adirondack chairs. Also i am on a limited budget.

That max developed hp rating is seriously misleading.

I'd have to agree with Knotscott but in a slightly less offensive way. Nothing personal Knotscott but that was a little rough.
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post #6 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 08:06 AM
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That max developed hp rating is seriously misleading.

I'd have to agree with Knotscott but in a slightly less offensive way. Nothing personal Knotscott but that was a little rough.
Coming from a Marine, that's saying something! ...one of the hazards of wearing headphones in the library I guess!

Honestly though...my concern is seeing him waste his hard earned money at a time when he can't afford it. Sometimes it's more expensive to spend too little. He's posted the same question elsewhere, and got answers leaning heavily against buying it ...I was hoping my comment would help him see the forest through the trees.
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post #7 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by knotscott View Post
Coming from a Marine, that's saying something! ...one of the hazards of wearing headphones in the library I guess!

Honestly though...my concern is seeing him waste his hard earned money at a time when he can't afford it. Sometimes it's more expensive to spend too little. He's posted the same question elsewhere, and got answers leaning heavily against buying it ...I was hoping my comment would help him see the forest through the trees.
Hey Knotscott I thought it was kind of funny that you came across so strong this time, you always have nice informative comments. I guess I can let you slide this time under the circumstances.
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post #8 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by knotscott View Post
Coming from a Marine, that's saying something! ...one of the hazards of wearing headphones in the library I guess!

Honestly though...my concern is seeing him waste his hard earned money at a time when he can't afford it. Sometimes it's more expensive to spend too little. He's posted the same question elsewhere, and got answers leaning heavily against buying it ...I was hoping my comment would help him see the forest through the trees.
just looking to get as much feed back as possible.
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post #9 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bnew17 View Post
just looking to get as much feed back as possible.
You are likely to get these kind of responses on sites like these anytime you ask this kind of audience for their opinions.

Most of these users I would think are serious woodworkers or make their living doing some kind of work using power tools.

Whether they have actually used this particular saw or not , there are perceptions about certain brands. Are these perceptions accurate. Well yes , to a degree they are . But , again , you must consider the fact that these people are only trying to give you honest opinions based on experience and yes probably some perception plays into it.

If you go to a tool review site 9 times out of 10 if you look at a comparison of cordless hand drills you won't even find a Black & Decker listed in the review.

Why ? Because Black & Decker has built their clientel around the occasional week-end wood warrior like yourself and millions just like you. Are Black & Decker
hand tools inferior to the likes of Makita, Milwaukee,Porter & Cable,Dewalt and Bosch. Emphatically yes they are. Are they still viable options for the occasional user who does'nt use them 8 hours a day or depend on them almost daily. Absolutely.

A case in point is a 3/8 electric drill that I have had for over 35 years and has been obused beyond imagination but it still works . I don't use it much anymore but I got more than my moneys worth from it.

So for you and your needs and budget you can probably find one of these saws on craigslist for around 100 dollars or less. If you want to go that route make sure the fence is in good shape and there are no high pitched noises and the arbor is in good shape . Thats just another option and way you can go.

Most of the other posters have valid points about resale and hp ratings , etc, thats a whole new topic. Most companies hp ratings are skewed a bit. Especially shop vacs.

So good luck with whatever route you go. Hope this was a little helpful.
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post #10 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 03:00 PM
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For what it's worth I'm still learning and adding tools to my garage. I bought a use entry level craftsman saw on CL last week, 10", 2.5hp, small and portable... cleaned it up put a decent blade in it and it's great for what i've done so far. If your budget is low or you aren't sure what you like it might be easier to start with lower end models.

Ask a mechanic what tool he prefers... you'll hear a lot of Matco and Snap-on. Yes they are better but if you are just changing your oil and rotating tires Craftsman will do just fine.

On the other hand if you plan on being at it a while or can afford it now, might as well pay 400 now and not 200 now and 400 later like I will.

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post #11 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by against_the_grain View Post
You are likely to get these kind of responses on sites like these anytime you ask this kind of audience for their opinions.

Most of these users I would think are serious woodworkers or make their living doing some kind of work using power tools.


Whether they have actually used this particular saw or not , there are perceptions about certain brands. Are these perceptions accurate. Well yes , to a degree they are . But , again , you must consider the fact that these people are only trying to give you honest opinions based on experience and yes probably some perception plays into it.

If you go to a tool review site 9 times out of 10 if you look at a comparison of cordless hand drills you won't even find a Black & Decker listed in the review.

Why ? Because Black & Decker has built their clientel around the occasional week-end wood warrior like yourself and millions just like you. Are Black & Decker
hand tools inferior to the likes of Makita, Milwaukee,Porter & Cable,Dewalt and Bosch. Emphatically yes they are. Are they still viable options for the occasional user who does'nt use them 8 hours a day or depend on them almost daily. Absolutely.

A case in point is a 3/8 electric drill that I have had for over 35 years and has been obused beyond imagination but it still works . I don't use it much anymore but I got more than my moneys worth from it.

So for you and your needs and budget you can probably find one of these saws on craigslist for around 100 dollars or less. If you want to go that route make sure the fence is in good shape and there are no high pitched noises and the arbor is in good shape . Thats just another option and way you can go.

Most of the other posters have valid points about resale and hp ratings , etc, thats a whole new topic. Most companies hp ratings are skewed a bit. Especially shop vacs.

So good luck with whatever route you go. Hope this was a little helpful.

Ok I don't get worked up that often but you against the grain are way off base.
First off although I gave Knotscott a hard time about his kind of rough opinion I will stand by it because I agree with him. Most of the people on here including myself are not professionals. We are hobbyist with a few on the advance side and yes a few members here are professionals. That said You get better advise from someone that has been around tools and has seen where allot of people get ripped off on tools that may not be up to par.

As for knotscott he is a long time member here with a long track record of good advise especially in the table saw area. Just look at his previous post he has always been more concerned about good advise for those who ask and listen. He has often said look at used saws of better quality rather then buying a new saw that is not so good. His opinions are based on knowledge about types of saws not based on brand. Take a look at other post from him and you may understand.

My last point is this, although you have an opinion as you and everyone should on this forum. Your 2nd post was attacking not just someone with well over a 1000 post but aimed at allot of the members on here. The original poster evidently wants good advise as to not waste his money and knotscott has seen him on multiple forums asking the same question which is why his post was so direct. If you have the same saw and are happy with it then the OP has every right to hear your review. How long have you had it would also have helped in his decision.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.



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post #12 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 04:20 PM
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Now that I finished ranting and stuff I feel better.
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post #13 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 04:59 PM
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So in view of all this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnew17 View Post
just looking to get as much feed back as possible.
Did you buy the saw? Your first post was dated 8-3 ..
it's now 8-16. Just curious. bill
I also second knotscott's advice...had a little passion to go with it.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post

Ok I don't get worked up that often but you against the grain are way off base.
First off although I gave Knotscott a hard time about his kind of rough opinion I will stand by it because I agree with him. Most of the people on here including myself are not professionals. We are hobbyist with a few on the advance side and yes a few members here are professionals. That said You get better advise from someone that has been around tools and has seen where allot of people get ripped off on tools that may not be up to par.

As for knotscott he is a long time member here with a long track record of good advise especially in the table saw area. Just look at his previous post he has always been more concerned about good advise for those who ask and listen. He has often said look at used saws of better quality rather then buying a new saw that is not so good. His opinions are based on knowledge about types of saws not based on brand. Take a look at other post from him and you may understand.

My last point is this, although you have an opinion as you and everyone should on this forum. Your 2nd post was attacking not just someone with well over a 1000 post but aimed at allot of the members on here. The original poster evidently wants good advise as to not waste his money and knotscott has seen him on multiple forums asking the same question which is why his post was so direct. If you have the same saw and are happy with it then the OP has every right to hear your review. How long have you had it would also have helped in his decision.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


First off , I think you should go back and read my posts again. I never once , if i am correct said that most on here were professionals . If I did , I think I clarified that in my other post . Serious woodworkers/ same as hobbists , and people who use their tools for a living.

Second off, I gave my advice to the op who wanted to know if anyone used this saw . I would bet most have'nt . Thats just my opinion. Does'nt really matter . Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You certainly are as well as me.

Thirdly. Does post count really matter ? Well apparently it does to you but I digress .

Fourthly, not sure how you intrepreted my opinion as attacking anyone . I stand by what I said. If the shoe fits , well life goes on.


Lastly, I think you are reading more into what I said. I basically was in agreement with what both of you said. But again, there is a negative perception amongs hobbists and professionals regarding brands like Craftsman and Black n Decker.
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post #15 of 21 Old 08-16-2010, 11:08 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by against_the_grain View Post
First off , I think you should go back and read my posts again. I never once , if i am correct said that most on here were professionals . If I did , I think I clarified that in my other post . Serious woodworkers/ same as hobbists , and people who use their tools for a living.

Second off, I gave my advice to the op who wanted to know if anyone used this saw . I would bet most have'nt . Thats just my opinion. Does'nt really matter . Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You certainly are as well as me.

Thirdly. Does post count really matter ? Well apparently it does to you but I digress .

Fourthly, not sure how you intrepreted my opinion as attacking anyone . I stand by what I said. If the shoe fits , well life goes on.


Lastly, I think you are reading more into what I said. I basically was in agreement with what both of you said. But again, there is a negative perception amongs hobbists and professionals regarding brands like Craftsman and Black n Decker.


OK against the grain your post implies that we as a whole or at least most of us will give you advise against Craftsman, Back & Decker etc because of brand since we are more serious woodworkers or professionals. This is incorrect and based on a wrong assumption that we look down on brands of tools geared for occasional use.

Yes amount of post comes into play when you can go back and see how people have responded to other similar questions. Knotscott has always suggested belt driven induction motors on table saws because of the better value. He has also consistently suggested used saw with induction motors over new direct drive motors although if the only choices are job site or portable saws he can give advise on the better models. Actually if you go back and check any number of post on this subject most members on here recommend older craftsman table saws especially the contractor saws for there value. older Craftsman Radial Arm Saws are also recomended on a regular basis. You also refered to your old 3/8" drill, key word is old you probably won't find a new one of the same quality. We are also always saying that you can not shop by brand because some things or good and some or bad all made by the same manufacture no matter who they are.

Against the grain post count also comes into play when you join a forum that is and always has been geared at helping others out and the first thing you say is

"You are likely to get these kind of responses on sites like these anytime you ask this kind of audience for their opinions."

Look at that statement of yours again and tell me it dont sound attacking to members on this forum that you have just joined and evidently know nothing about.

See I don't think I was wrong in judging your post, hell we greet all newbie members with when they post their intro. Unfortunately you didn't post an intro nor did you say hi you made the above statement which I personally found attacking.

See I don't know how you can say you basically agreed with what we were saying. You said we thought we were right because of a wrong perception that we had about tools geared for occasional use. The problem was with that particular type brand and model of saw.

I'll tell you what go back and read some threads about anything on here and you will see we are a nice group of woodworkers looking to help each other out. If you like what you read post a intro and I'll be one of the first members to welcome you to our forum. I just think you got the wrong idea about this forum and the members on here.



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post #16 of 21 Old 08-17-2010, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnew17 View Post
Has anybody used this saw? It will be going on sale for $199 this weekend and it is normally $299. Its rated "3 hp" . Here is a link to the saw http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_101...ype=L2&prdNo=2

I dont need a big fancy contractors saw because i dont do anything real big. I mainly do around the house stuff and make adirondack chairs. Also i am on a limited budget.
Hey bnew17 sorry your thread went crazy. So whatever saw you end up with let us know.
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post #17 of 21 Old 08-17-2010, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by knotscott View Post
Not intending to insult anyone's saw, but I can't think of a worse way to spend $200 on a saw. It's too small, too light, too sloppy, too loud, too unreliable, too weak, has little resale value, and isnít cost effective to fix or upgrade. Youíll outgrow it in short order. Itís exactly the type of saw that many of us fell prey to when we didnít know any better...which is exactly who that saw is marketed toward.

You'd be far better off either buying a full sized used saw or saving your money until you can buy a good full size new saw. Full size cast iron saws with belt drive induction motors within your budget go on Craigslist in our area every few days, and they have every advantage over that particular Cman saw.

19-5/8Ē deep leaves very little operating room in front of the bladeÖ.literally just a few inches. In contrast, a standard contractor saw, hybrid, or cabinet saw is 27Ē deep, which leaves about a foot to maneuver in front of the blade. It weighs in at 72-1/2#...in contrast to 250-300# for a contractor saw, 300-450# for a hybrid, and 500-600# for a cabinet saw. Itís very unnerving to have a saw move or tip on you when you trying to make a cutÖitís also dangerous. Unless the need for portability is critical, there are lots of advantages in favor of a heavier machine. You'll pay $200+, it won't do a very good job, and will be worth ~ $100 next week. A used saw for the same price will do a better job, last longer, is safer to use, can be easily upgraded, fixed fairly easily if necessary, and is still worth roughly what you paid for it...more if you do some upgrades.
Do not beat around the bush. If you do not like something come right out and say it.

How much time do you have using this saw?

George
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post #18 of 21 Old 08-17-2010, 08:05 AM
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On Sears site as posted above

This alone would be a "deal breaker" for me. Under negative reviews:

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_101...ype=L2&prdNo=2

Our most helpful negative review
Don't deviate from industry standard March 26, 2009

I bought this table saw for around the house use and to do some wood working. It has plenty of power for my needs, is fairly light weight and does an all around okay job. Where it fails it fails miserably. Most notably in the groves for the miter gauge. Industry standard (and what you'll find in the Dewalt and Bosch table saw that Sears sells also) is that the groves are simple rectangles that are 3/4" wide by 3/8 deep. This table saw (and all others by craftsman except for the really high end) are 5/8" x 3/8" and have the addition of 4 of the most annoying little flanges that jut into the groove forcing any guide rail to be 'T' shaped. Apparently, and as far as I can tell, the addition of the flanges is so your miter gauge doesn't fall out in the event that gravity starts working backwards some day. Other than that unlikely event there is NO REASON WHAT SO EVER for these flanges to exist. The miter gauge that they provide is totally worthless with a full 1/16"+ play while in the groove. So precise and accurate cutting is very very difficult on this saw without ........


This subject has been on this forum many times from owners who became frustrated with the miter slots. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 08-17-2010 at 09:00 AM.
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post #19 of 21 Old 08-17-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
...How much time do you have using this saw?

George
Which version? There are many iterations of this same basic saw that are available under many model numbers and more than the CMAN logo (FWIW, the CMAN name plate isn't an issue for me). I've used a couple of these, have torn one apart, and I'm familiar enough with them that I have a tough time suggesting that anyone buy a new one...especially a young guy who's got a lifetime of possible use ahead of him. Function obstacles aside, if this is the only table saw you've ever known, it could be really easy to get discouraged about wwing from one of these.

If small is the way the OP decides to go, IMHO he'd be better off with one of the better jobsite saws.

P.S. It never was my intention to ruffle anyone's tail feathers, and I apologize to the OP and anyone I irked if my phrasing didn't hit the right mark.

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post #20 of 21 Old 01-28-2011, 12:04 PM
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If you wind up buying from Home Depot, look for a Harbor Freight coupon; there's usually one in the back of Popular Mechanics. Spend $6 on the magazine, save 20% on the saw. 8-) My local Home Depot takes them without any complaints.[/QUOTE]

Home Depot will accept Harbor Freight 20% off coupon, I never heard of that? Will they really? thanks, Douglas
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