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post #41 of 83 Old 06-24-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domer View Post
I have always been reluctant to buy major pieces of equipment from people at shows.

I bought mine from Woodcraft in KC and was treated great. I did not have to pay for the saw until it arrived.

You have to look at the small purchase from the manufacturers perspective. Although the part only cost $10, it does cost them to pick pack and ship the order. UPS or FexEx has minimum charges which they have to pay as well.

When you went to your local company, they were able to help you for considerably less. You had a choice of getting the part earlier and paying more or getting it later and paying less.

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I would like to add my 2 cent's to the cost of the $10 part. The people that work their are getting paid ? so why charge the customer to pick and pack they are paid already. so the company is making double money or your are paying the company person salary ?? Most company's can ship with usps with free box's but pay a flat rate. Their are a min price on shipping and weight on shipper's other than the usps. I know not all part's will fit in the flate rate box's. But a small part like a beiring for a band saw size dia 1 1/2" in size can ship in a bubble package for less than a dollar. But the big company will charge a rate of $7 or $8 for the same. Me i tell them to keep the item. I will go some where else. They may some day stand their and wonder where the busisness went. I know the above can change but that is just my 2 cent's sorry to hijack
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post #42 of 83 Old 06-24-2012, 11:26 AM
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I own a saw stop for my stair company. I've used two other unisaws before the saw stop. I can't say I am displeased in any way with it. I was surprised at how well written the instruction/user manuals were written and their phone support was exceptional too.

As far as the saw itself it is just as accurate and powerful as the unisaws but has the additional safety feature. A previous poster mentioned that you needed to buy a lot of other parts that it didn't come with. This wasn't my experience at all. I picked which model and size I wanted and it came with exactly what was needed. They do have optional accessories like a mobile base but that's the same with all manufacturers.

Lastly, I was unaware of the politics regarding Mr. Glass but honestly that would influence me little to none. I got a great product and receive great service from the company. Why should it matter if he is trying to his technology mandated whether it is for safety reasons or monetary.

Check out some of my custom stairs
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post #43 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 12:55 AM
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Those saws will suffer major damage from crashing the blade to a halt like that.
New motor, belts, and arbor is on the short list, there could be much more damage to repair.
It would not be safe to re-use the arbor, it would be bent anyway, same with the motor shaft.

After a crash, any machine is just not the same.
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post #44 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 11:10 AM
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Although I agree with the unit in principle, there is one glaring problem with the saw stop. Complacency. I work in a school wood shop. If a student gets used to the saw stop, and is therefore not as careful as they could be, they could then be exposed to another saw at home or in another shop without the device and could then have a severe accident. This is something that no one considers. This scares me!
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post #45 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
Those saws will suffer major damage from crashing the blade to a halt like that.
New motor, belts, and arbor is on the short list, there could be much more damage to repair.
It would not be safe to re-use the arbor, it would be bent anyway, same with the motor shaft.

After a crash, any machine is just not the same.

Even if that is true (which I don't believe historical data supports), I'm pretty sure the cost of buying a completely new saw after tripping the brake is still cheaper than the medical costs of typical tablesaw accidents.....AND you get to keep your fingers!
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post #46 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradabernethy View Post
Although I agree with the unit in principle, there is one glaring problem with the saw stop. Complacency. I work in a school wood shop. If a student gets used to the saw stop, and is therefore not as careful as they could be, they could then be exposed to another saw at home or in another shop without the device and could then have a severe accident. This is something that no one considers. This scares me!
Complacency is a problem no matter what you do. Almost every aircraft crash involving human error comes back to complacency, and I can't think of a better deterrent to that than the thought of falling out of the sky (but it still happens). I'm pretty sure a lot of the table saw accidents that happen are also because of complacency, no matter the brand of saw used or its features.

If increasing the danger helps prevent future complacency, then why use blade guards?

Now, if you're talking about people being intentionally reckless because they believe the saw will not hurt them....well, there's no helping people like that.
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post #47 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
Those saws will suffer major damage from crashing the blade to a halt like that.
New motor, belts, and arbor is on the short list, there could be much more damage to repair.
It would not be safe to re-use the arbor, it would be bent anyway, same with the motor shaft.

After a crash, any machine is just not the same.
What proof would you have for that statement? Any normal saw yes I could see it but this saw is designed so absorb those forces which is the exact reason the technology can not be retrofitted to other saws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradabernethy View Post
Although I agree with the unit in principle, there is one glaring problem with the saw stop. Complacency. I work in a school wood shop. If a student gets used to the saw stop, and is therefore not as careful as they could be, they could then be exposed to another saw at home or in another shop without the device and could then have a severe accident. This is something that no one considers. This scares me!
Have you ever used a Saw Stop? If so would you feel comfortable putting your finger in that blade while it was spinning?

I own a Saw Stop and I can tell you there is no way in hell it makes you feel over confident. You still have respect for what that blade could do. Anyone that don't is an idiot and shouldn't be using equipment at all.
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post #48 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 03:19 PM
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In a demonstration, where the "guy" stuck his finger near the blade "stopping the saw". The entire top was covered with plexiglass about a foot up from the table.
Many things can happen when crashing a machine to a sudden stop, such as the blade shattering, and or the very small arbor snapping off- launching the blade out. I noticed they use a larger bearing at the flange side of the arbor, giving extra thickness there.

When the shoe crashes the blade, the forces built up in the motor drive assembly, causes that assembly to drop below the table, via cutch, shear pin, or other
The forces involved are just to great to absorb completly in a short distance.

The blade would be very tight on the arbor after crashing, I would think taking the small 5/8" threads way past the elastic limit, thus it would not be wise to reuse even if not bent.

Just some observations on what is not being said, regarding the so called "high technology" of crashing a machine to a sudden stop.
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post #49 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 03:54 PM
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So what you're saying is it can't, because you don't see how it can, and Sawstop is saying it can, because they designed and tested it to do that.

Sawstop isn't a new product, it's been out awhile. I'd think that if it were proving to be a disposable saw, we'd be hearing more about that by now.

Just because something is "not being said" doesn't mean there actually is something to say.
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post #50 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
In a demonstration, where the "guy" stuck his finger near the blade "stopping the saw". The entire top was covered with plexiglass about a foot up from the table.
Many things can happen when crashing a machine to a sudden stop, such as the blade shattering, and or the very small arbor snapping off- launching the blade out. I noticed they use a larger bearing at the flange side of the arbor, giving extra thickness there.

When the shoe crashes the blade, the forces built up in the motor drive assembly, causes that assembly to drop below the table, via cutch, shear pin, or other
The forces involved are just to great to absorb completly in a short distance.

The blade would be very tight on the arbor after crashing, I would think taking the small 5/8" threads way past the elastic limit, thus it would not be wise to reuse even if not bent.

Just some observations on what is not being said, regarding the so called "high technology" of crashing a machine to a sudden stop.
Why don't you just say no I have no proof, I'm just guessing.

My brother in law works at a place that has military contracts. The have a few of the saws and have set there's off several times each usually for a staple or something in the wood. They use full kerf blades and have a safety official determine if they re-use the blade. Personally I wouldn't but If you ever looked under the table at the guts of a SawStop you might actually think differently. It's not designed like a regular saw.
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post #51 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 04:20 PM
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Dont be so testy, I just am curious about this system.
I happen to be an expert by default on machine tools, use, buy-sell and repair.
I state by default, because I am the old guy now, the others have passed away.

I have seen many crashed machines of low horse power like these saws, always severe damage is the result.
I use the term crash, because that is what happens on these saws.

I have looked at these saws at Woodcraft in Spokane Wa, the expert there could not answer any of my questions.

Last edited by Benny Blanco; 06-29-2012 at 04:23 PM.
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post #52 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
Dont be so testy, I just am curious about this system.
I happen to be an expert by default on machine tools, use, buy-sell and repair.
I state by default, because I am the old guy now, the others have passed away.
Well if by testy you mean calling someone out from making statements that they evidently have no proof of, then NO.

How can you be curious about something and an expert at the same time. Your previous statements about the SawStop and how it will fall apart was stated as a fact as if you were right. They were also stated as if you were an expert. Now your just interested in these saws and how they work.

As for being an expert. You definitely can't be an expert by default because the other experts passed away. Your either an expert or not an expert. Judging from some of your post I'm going to lean more towards not, especially on the Saw Stop technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post

I have seen many crashed machines of low horse power like these saws, always severe damage is the result.
I use the term crash, because that is what happens on these saws.
Really you have seen many crashed saws like this. Yet, No reports about any crashed Saw Stops have hit the media or web. Interesting that you have the only ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
I have looked at these saws at Woodcraft in Spokane Wa, the expert there could not answer any of my questions.
As for the expert at woodcraft they are generally called salesmen around here. They only know what it takes to sell a saw. I'm not sure about Woodcraft but I guess it's the same.

If you have questions call SawStop technical support and ask questions other then that buy one, use it, take it apart what ever you like then when you have something that is a fact come back and show us.

My whole problem with your post is it lacks facts and is condemning a product that you obviously have no idea what your talking about.

Last edited by rrbrown; 06-29-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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post #53 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 06:23 PM
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You seem to think I am condemning this product only when I ask questions about "what happens" afterward.

There is nothing different about a table saw suddenly being stopped, vrs any other piece of equipment.

My whole problem with your post is, dont ask any questions, buy the F%*#ing thing and shut up!

Just because you bought one, certainly doesnt have any bearing on me buying one.
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post #54 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
Those saws will suffer major damage from crashing the blade to a halt like that.
New motor, belts, and arbor is on the short list, there could be much more damage to repair.
It would not be safe to re-use the arbor, it would be bent anyway, same with the motor shaft.

After a crash, any machine is just not the same.
This was the first post you made on the subject that started it all. If that is not condemning and sounding if it was coming from a known source of fact or an expert which you later claim you were then i don't know what is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Blanco View Post
You seem to think I am condemning this product only when I ask questions about "what happens" afterward.

There is nothing different about a table saw suddenly being stopped, vrs any other piece of equipment.

My whole problem with your post is, dont ask any questions, buy the F%*#ing thing and shut up!

Just because you bought one, certainly doesnt have any bearing on me buying one.
I suggest you go back and read all our post again.

I stated it's not like a normal saw it is built differently and that's why it can't be retrofitted.

I asked what proof you had. You still provide none

I also stated call there tech support and ask questions or buy one use it, take it apart or what ever.

As for your last post again nothing factual about it. So either check your attitude and provide some proof or call there tech support like I said earlier.

This horse is dead and the fat lady was singing as Elvis left the building. Translation if needed, this argument is over.
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post #55 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 09:41 PM
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you both have valid points

Yes any time a motor is just down abruptly some damage can "possibly" occur. Engine lathes that are stopped and reversed don't seem to have any issues. I remember reading that the motor and arbor is specifically designed for the shock of an abrupt stop, that's part of the additional expense. I could be wrong about that, I donno?

I happen to have a 19" Grizzly bandsaw with the motor brake, on the 3 HP motor. I does slam down abruptly when the off button is pushed. I have no longevity history of that feature, so I can't speak on that issue except some engineer thought it was a worthy idea. I like that safety feature since a large bandsaw ill spool down for several minutes after being turned off. It does take a second or 2 compared to the Saw Stop which takes only a milli-second or so, if I remember correctly.

I don't see the point of this part of the discussion, harm to the motor etc. because it can't yet be verified and will take some market feedback to determine if indeed it is an issue.....
So I would not make a big deal of it. JMO. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-29-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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post #56 of 83 Old 06-29-2012, 09:41 PM
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Man there is a lot of theory out there on this saw.

I have one and have had it for about three years now, set the break twice once at full throttle, the saw cuts as true as the day it was bought. It is violent but if you look at the actual saw itself it is designed to "stop". I do agree till you test drive one before or after comments like above are silliness now matter the experience on other saws.

As far as complacency, I as well as RR have had encounters with a spinning saw blade. I assure you every time I hear the banshee scream of the saw blade come to life I fear it. I don't care it the blade comes to a complete stop, and makes ice cream, my butt uses every precaution.

You want to talk complacency, take a guy whom has been using a saw no matter the manufacturer and never had an accident. Give him 20 years of accident free life and I'll show you complacency.

The sad fact of the matter and RR will agree, I know him from Adam but we share a common bond, is most buy a sawstop after an incident. All of the sudden it makes sense. There are those that have had a accident and those that will.

I guarantee you one thing as I have many times in the past, sit there in the ER with a hand in the shop towel and the feature and it's cost ARE VERY CHEAP.
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post #57 of 83 Old 07-05-2012, 04:01 PM
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This is a good invention. However, I do not agree with it being mandatory. Let the people decide what they want to do with their fingers.
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post #58 of 83 Old 07-06-2012, 11:40 AM
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Have you ever used a Saw Stop? If so would you feel comfortable putting your finger in that blade while it was spinning?

I own a Saw Stop and I can tell you there is no way in hell it makes you feel over confident. You still have respect for what that blade could do. Anyone that don't is an idiot and shouldn't be using equipment at all.[/QUOTE]

No, I have not. I have seen the stop in action though used with a hot dog. I would feel very afraid having one in a school shop environment because students take chances that they shouldn't. My fear is they would intentionally stick their fingers in the blade to stop it..or as I said before, become complacent and simply forget common safety rules. That is my problem. As a shop teacher, it is a justified concern.
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post #59 of 83 Old 07-06-2012, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE:
My fear is they would intentionally stick their fingers in the blade to stop it..or as I said before, become complacent and simply forget common safety rules. That is my problem. As a shop teacher, it is a justified concern.
My .02 cents:
Complacency was my very first concern way back when they came out also. I have a different take as a former "Shop" Instructor at the college level where the kids are a bit older than high school and may have more respect.

I would still have one in the shop if I were in charge of requisitions since in many ways they are very well designed, heavy duty, and well made besides the safety aspect.

There would be strict warnings about "intentional" use of the
safety feature and serious consequences including dismissal from school, payment for the blade and cartridge, and hours of shop cleaning as a punishment for horseplay. I think it could be managed in that manner. I also taught about 20 female sophomores in a Design class as well and we only lost the tip of one fingernail on the disc sander...that's it.
The bandsaw was used primarily since some of the projects had a bunch of curved surfaces. That machine is also scary with the blade guard full up and a novice pushing a chunk of wood through..... It would also be a good candidate for the "flesh sensing" technology in my opinion.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-06-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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post #60 of 83 Old 07-06-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
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QUOTE:
My fear is they would intentionally stick their fingers in the blade to stop it..or as I said before, become complacent and simply forget common safety rules. That is my problem. As a shop teacher, it is a justified concern.
My .02 cents:
Complacency was my very first concern way back when they came out also.

To the first point, Sawstop is designed to prevent accidents, it will not stop stupidity.

Complacency creates accidents in anything we do. None of us get into a vehicle and buckle up and feel better that we wont die today. We understand there is still a risk in driving a vehicle, the seat belt is simply there to keep us a bit more safe.
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