Hard time with air compressors - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 10-05-2016, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Hard time with air compressors

I'm running out of air. I've got an Ingersol Rand T-30 compressor with a 60 gallon tank I've had for more than 20 years. Last Monday I noticed the tank leaking. The thing was rusting through. I have it outside my shop so I decided to keep using it so I turned the pressure in the tank down as much as possible trying to make it through the job I'm currently working on but it didn't work. By Thursday is was leaking so much air I had to turn it off until I can replace the tank. I got out my portable Speedair compressor I've had since 1988 and used it until this morning when it started sounding different so I checked on it and one of the valves has gone bad and it won't air more than 80 psi. Not having a rebuild kit I decided to buy a new one. I made 11 different stores and came home empty handed. Nobody stocks the air compressors I use anymore. They are all oil-less or upright with the exception of one. Northern Tool had a Northstar compressor which was a little heavier than I wanted but think I could make it work however I had never heard of the brand and didn't know anything about it. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...y_northstar_48
The compressor I would rather have is a campbell hausfeld VT6290 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Campbell-...6290/203002182 which seems I can only order and wait a couple weeks to get it. Tractor Supply used to stock this compressor however it seems they have reduced their compressor inventory to make more room for more clothing. I finally had to stop by the jobsite I had been working and pick up my Harbor Freight smudgepot compressor to finish spraying this job. Fun fun. :frown2:
Steve Neul is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 10-06-2016, 08:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
Steve,
Years ago I had a Sears compressor (made by Campbell Hausfield I found out) develop a leak.
I was not good at draining the unit. I carried it to a shop and had it welded up. He welded a piece of metal for a patch about 6" X 12" over the hole. It was a cheap fix and lasted me several more years until I replaced the unit.
I still don't drain my compressor as often as I should.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 10-06-2016, 09:37 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 26,190
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
compressors are vital

In a woodworking shop which finishes the projects with spray equipment, a compressor is a vital piece of equipment. It's the "table saw" of spray equipment. Over the years I've acquired all different sizes of compressors from an "assembled version " I made out of new and used parts, to a 5HP 80 gallon oil-less jack hammer sounding version. I never considered putting it outside, for various reasons and especially since it would be taking in moist/humid air which would have to be filtered out. It's as noisy as anything short of a Harley with open pipes, but I just wait until it quits. There's a 2 HP H F 8 gallon unit which works pretty well in the upstairs woodshop for minor spraying operations. It's also oil-less and quite noisy, but I just keep spraying or wait until it quits.

You gotta have a backup for any machine that your livelihood depends on. You also need to drain an outside compressor of the water that accumulates each day when it's running. Lacking these, you will get put in a jam eventually. Maybe I'm weird, but I have more than one of almost all my machines... for various reasons.

I did get my 5 HP from Northern Tool about 15 years ago. It has never given me any problems. It was their own brand, not a name brand. It does have a Leeson motor however.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 10-06-2016 at 09:40 PM.
woodnthings is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 10-06-2016, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Steve,
Years ago I had a Sears compressor (made by Campbell Hausfield I found out) develop a leak.
I was not good at draining the unit. I carried it to a shop and had it welded up. He welded a piece of metal for a patch about 6" X 12" over the hole. It was a cheap fix and lasted me several more years until I replaced the unit.
I still don't drain my compressor as often as I should.
It's just a terrible risk to repair a compressor tank. For it to leak in one spot you have to assume it's rusted all over. When I was 18 I worked as a photographer for a newspaper in a small town and one of my assignments was to take pictures in a diesel garage where a compressor had been repaired and exploded and went through the roof of the building and landed in a field next to the shop. The memory stuck and the only reason I was willing to ignore the leak was my compressor was in a separate building of it's own away from where I work. When it started leaking like an air hose without the coupler I shut it down.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 10-06-2016, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
In a woodworking shop which finishes the projects with spray equipment, a compressor is a vital piece of equipment. It's the "table saw" of spray equipment. Over the years I've acquired all different sizes of compressors from an "assembled version " I made out of new and used parts, to a 5HP 80 gallon oil-less jack hammer sounding version. I never considered putting it outside, for various reasons and especially since it would be taking in moist/humid air which would have to be filtered out. It's as noisy as anything short of a Harley with open pipes, but I just wait until it quits. There's a 2 HP H F 8 gallon unit which works pretty well in the upstairs woodshop for minor spraying operations. It's also oil-less and quite noisy, but I just keep spraying or wait until it quits.

You gotta have a backup for any machine that your livelihood depends on. You also need to drain an outside compressor of the water that accumulates each day when it's running. Lacking these, you will get put in a jam eventually. Maybe I'm weird, but I have more than one of almost all my machines... for various reasons.

I did get my 5 HP from Northern Tool about 15 years ago. It has never given me any problems. It was their own brand, not a name brand. It does have a Leeson motor however.
Part of the issue with compressors is they get hot and being outdoors where it can get some air helps a little. Even if you keep one indoors it's recommend you run a pipe outdoors and put the intake filter on it outside. A certain amount of dust would get in the compressor otherwise. The compressor of mine was just old and used a lot. I'm not sure but I think I bought it in 1992. I kept it drained but still developed a leak. Normally when I used it a lot and opened the drain cock enough it leaked a little all the time.

I did have a backup, a Speedaire portable compressor however it was old too and broke down. It had been rebuilt and will be rebuilt again however I just rebuilt it three years ago so I don't think I will depend on it anymore so I plan to buy another however I can't find one. I think I can get the parts to overhaul the Speedaire faster than I can order a replacement compressor. The replacement will have to come at a later date.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 10-06-2016, 10:15 PM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,768
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
A good compressor is crucial to any shop, draining the tank is an important part of the maintenance. My compressor has intake filters, sit's right next to the blast cabinet, I have no concerns about dust. I will go outside in a shed eventually, but I would never put it outside directly in the elements.

There is a lot of pressure in a tank, too much risk, when they go it can be really ugly, I wouldn't repair one.

My backup/portable compressor is oil less, works great, is noisy, but it's small and easy to take with me when I need to.

My tank is still good, but my compressor head went out over a year ago, here is a thread I created on garagejournal that shows what I did to replace it.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=278440
shoot summ is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 10-06-2016, 10:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
In the '80's Thomas introduced the oiless compressors to the DFW market. They sold like hot cakes to both roofers and trim guys. Small bright red with about a 4 gallon tank. These little units could operate two small nailers or staplers. Roofers carried them up onto the roof sometimes because being oiless, they did not have to sit flat to run.
Anyway, they began to explode like grenades because of weak/faulty tanks.
Very dangerous for sure.
On any brand, if the auto shut off valve (pressure valve) gets stuck, they can become a bomb.
A good strong tank can stop a weak compressor when the pressure gets high.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 12:09 AM
Trying not to lose digits
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Norcal
Posts: 19
View MajorAssman's Photo Album My Photos
This is the compressor we use. It takes oil.
https://www.grainger.com/product/SPE...Mounted-35WC47

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
MajorAssman is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 01:21 AM
Senior Member
 
allpurpose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,473
View allpurpose's Photo Album My Photos
I have a bunch of Sears stuff, but their oilless is not and never will be one of them. My first compressor was a 60 gallon oilless. I was painting an almost new at the time Toyota camry and the basecoat alone cost over $200 back in 1994 I think.. Anyway, base went on beautiful and 2 coats of clear. I was putting on 3 at the time. That compressor died half way through the last coat and Sears service guy tried to pin the fault on me because I had removed the filter after it stopped and tried to tell me I had been painting without the filter. It took me about 4 hours of arguing with sears over it and eventually got my money back for the compressor. Funny thing is I paid cash for the compressor and had to wait 3 months for Sears to mail a refund check.
So I bought a Sanborn very quiet oil type compressor and never had the first problem with it. That old Sanborn was fantastic and could keep up with every cut off wheel and sander I had at the time . The Sears barely kept up with any tools.
Now I have an 8 gallon HF deal. It's not too bad, but much louder than my old Sanborn.
Anyway, I was going to suggest an extension pipe under the compressor that sticks out about a foot from the bottom and paint it some bright color to serve as a reminder to drain regularly. If you have just a small draincock under the compressor chances are it's out of sight, out of mind. An extension pipe is more visible and easier to get to.
I won't do it with the cheap HF, but if I had a 60-80 tank I definitely would think about the extension.

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?
allpurpose is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 07:55 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11
View luke duke's Photo Album My Photos
Control Devices Brass Cable Operated Drain Valve, 1/4" Male NPT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0081TJ04O/

Automatic Electronic Timed Air Tank Water Moisture Drain Valve for Compressor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XVPVHZI/

Van Air Systems 39-10507 Automatic Tank Drain for Air Compressors, 115V AC, Dual Inlet 1/2" and 1/4", Y-Strainer, Test Mode, Isolation Valve, 3/8" Hose Barb Fitting, 6' Power Cord https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S89W2KQ/
luke duke is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 08:41 AM
Senior Member
 
allpurpose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,473
View allpurpose's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke duke View Post
Control Devices Brass Cable Operated Drain Valve, 1/4" Male NPT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0081TJ04O/

Automatic Electronic Timed Air Tank Water Moisture Drain Valve for Compressor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XVPVHZI/

Van Air Systems 39-10507 Automatic Tank Drain for Air Compressors, 115V AC, Dual Inlet 1/2" and 1/4", Y-Strainer, Test Mode, Isolation Valve, 3/8" Hose Barb Fitting, 6' Power Cord https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S89W2KQ/
Now you're just taking the fun out of being forgetful and letting your expensive equipment go to hell.. if and when I get a larger compressor I guess I'll just have to be no fun anymore..

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?
allpurpose is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by allpurpose View Post
I have a bunch of Sears stuff, but their oilless is not and never will be one of them. My first compressor was a 60 gallon oilless. I was painting an almost new at the time Toyota camry and the basecoat alone cost over $200 back in 1994 I think.. Anyway, base went on beautiful and 2 coats of clear. I was putting on 3 at the time. That compressor died half way through the last coat and Sears service guy tried to pin the fault on me because I had removed the filter after it stopped and tried to tell me I had been painting without the filter. It took me about 4 hours of arguing with sears over it and eventually got my money back for the compressor. Funny thing is I paid cash for the compressor and had to wait 3 months for Sears to mail a refund check.
So I bought a Sanborn very quiet oil type compressor and never had the first problem with it. That old Sanborn was fantastic and could keep up with every cut off wheel and sander I had at the time . The Sears barely kept up with any tools.
Now I have an 8 gallon HF deal. It's not too bad, but much louder than my old Sanborn.
Anyway, I was going to suggest an extension pipe under the compressor that sticks out about a foot from the bottom and paint it some bright color to serve as a reminder to drain regularly. If you have just a small draincock under the compressor chances are it's out of sight, out of mind. An extension pipe is more visible and easier to get to.
I won't do it with the cheap HF, but if I had a 60-80 tank I definitely would think about the extension.
I had one of those HF 8 gallon compressors I used in the field. I even made kind of a garage for it in my work truck. It only lasted about six months and I couldn't find another brand of compressor the same size to fit the garage so i took an old HF smudgepot compressor I had and put the pump on that tank and have been using it for many years. It's actually all I have left for a compressor. I just have to limit how much paint spraying I do with it to keep from burning it up.

I did once have a Sears compressor that I don't think was made by Campbell Hausfeld once. I should have taken it back but I thought I was too busy to deal with it. It would get pretty hot but delivered all the air I needed for my shop. What I didn't know was it was putting oil in the air and didn't find it out until it ruined a lot of work.

Like you I put an extension pipe under my compressor so draining it would be easy however even if you drain one regularly it's no guaranty the tank won't rust out. I think what ever finish they use on the inside of a tank eventually will just fail and allow water through. I got 24 years out of that tank which I think is pretty good. At my age I think another tank

I remember working for a customer that was doing a lot of the work on his house himself and just had me do the things he couldn't. He had his own compressor and I watched him at the end of every day take an air nozzle and let all the air out of the compressor. After a week of watching him do this I got up the nerve to ask him why he let the air out every day. He said the instructions said to drain the tank daily. :smile3:
Steve Neul is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 09:33 AM
Senior Member
 
allpurpose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,473
View allpurpose's Photo Album My Photos
It also helps keep water out of the line.. I've seen a lot of expensive air tools ruined in body shops that have gas pipes running all over the place just dripping with water..that doesn't even mention the ruined paint jobs. One shop I worked in had a huge compressor, a 200 gallon or so tank up in the rafters (don't ask what idiot thought that was a good idea) and we had to climb up a 20 foot ladder several times a day to drain the water out.. I didn't work there very long.. lol

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?
allpurpose is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 10:28 AM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,768
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by allpurpose View Post
It also helps keep water out of the line.. I've seen a lot of expensive air tools ruined in body shops that have gas pipes running all over the place just dripping with water..that doesn't even mention the ruined paint jobs. One shop I worked in had a huge compressor, a 200 gallon or so tank up in the rafters (don't ask what idiot thought that was a good idea) and we had to climb up a 20 foot ladder several times a day to drain the water out.. I didn't work there very long.. lol
It's really surprising how much water gets in the lines.

I made a simple after cooler for my compressor, it's 8' of copper pipe that sits outside the belt guard, the compressor flywheel/fan pulls air across it. The temp difference from the top to the bottom of the cooler is significant. It goes to the intake on the tank, but there is a drop leg with a drain valve there. I get a LOT of water out of that drop leg, so I am getting it before it gets into the tank. There is a leg and drain on the tank. The shop is plumbed in 3/4" copper, it runs high, right next to the ceiling. There is a regulator and self draining moisture trap between the compressor and shop plumbing, and of course a drop leg before it. And there is a trap/drop leg on every drop in the shop. Probably overkill, but I don't have any water in my air at the point of use.

shoot summ is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 12:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 2,903
View TimPa's Photo Album My Photos
our t-30 had an automatic drain installed on it. since we were a licensed shop, we had to have the vessel inspected every year. I have 3 ac's now, and one needs a new tank, was leaking just like yours. i can imagine replacing my 20 gal will be a lot cheaper than replacing your 60. those t-30's run forever, and are very re-buildable. let me know if you have found a good source for replacement tanks.




seems there are broken ac's out there that need a new tank, and there are ones with bad compressors. if we could just marry them up...
TimPa is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 12:43 PM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,768
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
CH 80 gallon tank, I think it's reasonable, you would either have to fab a top plate, or just make your compressor head and motor a "sled" that sits away from the tank.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/pn...FQIxaQodu5IBxA

Another option with the top plate:

http://www.pneumaticplus.com/manches...er-80-gallons/

One more:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-80-GALLO...-/281954659372

Last edited by shoot summ; 10-07-2016 at 12:47 PM.
shoot summ is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
After a lot of digging I found out Global Industrial has an outlet in Arizona and Southern California. Because of the size of it and where I'm located I need to find one I can go pick up in the Dallas area. I did find a place in Garland TX that sells the tanks but I was hoping to find more places to compare prices. May not be necessary it seems the 60 gallon tanks run about $400.00. Because of the size of the motor and pump I think I will have to get a horizontal tank like it already has.

TimPa, the compressor of mine is a T30. I agree it's a good compressor and worth rebuilding. It's a bit more compressor than my current needs. When I bought it I was spraying paint all day every day. The thing produces 24 cfm @ 175psi.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 05:09 PM
Senior Member
 
TomCT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,251
View TomCT2's Photo Album My Photos
hopefully I don't burst anyone's bubble-air tank, but physics and chemistry apply.

the amount of water and oxygen required to create "rust" aka "corrosion" is several hundred million times smaller than the amount of water one may drain from a compressor tank.
there are other/valid reasons to drain water from the tank. but "rusting through" ain't one of them.

tanks with the compressor welded/mounted directly on the tank are - by some - considered the most dangerous. primarily because the vibration/etc from the compressor/motor accelerates the physical 'de-scaling' of corrosion layers and can precipitate 'spontaneous energetic disassembly' - aka=explosion.

for tanks, it's all about the material and thickness thereof. in time, they all explode.
TomCT2 is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCT2 View Post
hopefully I don't burst anyone's bubble-air tank, but physics and chemistry apply.

the amount of water and oxygen required to create "rust" aka "corrosion" is several hundred million times smaller than the amount of water one may drain from a compressor tank.
there are other/valid reasons to drain water from the tank. but "rusting through" ain't one of them.

tanks with the compressor welded/mounted directly on the tank are - by some - considered the most dangerous. primarily because the vibration/etc from the compressor/motor accelerates the physical 'de-scaling' of corrosion layers and can precipitate 'spontaneous energetic disassembly' - aka=explosion.

for tanks, it's all about the material and thickness thereof. in time, they all explode.
Yea, what ever the inside of the tank is coated with would have to fail before water would be an issue. My tank is about 18" in diameter and 5' long and I think the most I ever drained out of it is a gallon of water. Most of the time I had mine set to where it would drain the water as it formed and it still rusted out.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 10-07-2016, 08:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Kerrys's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: NW Washington State
Posts: 767
View Kerrys's Photo Album My Photos
Seems a bit expensive but here's your replacement tank...http://skagit.craigslist.org/tls/5814485219.html
Kerrys is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making a time tracking application in excel Part 2 Scott Marshburn Woodworking Videos 6 08-08-2016 04:40 PM
Is It Worth The Time? mdntrdr General Woodworking Discussion 6 07-17-2016 05:17 PM
Last person to post in this thread wins!!!! Boomhower Off Topic 5968 03-14-2016 10:20 AM
Water based polyurethane work time wmobrien Wood Finishing 2 11-20-2015 08:41 PM
New tool time! epicfail48 Project Showcase 14 09-08-2015 07:36 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome