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post #1 of 19 Old 02-26-2016, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Craftsman Dado Stack

So a foray into cabinet making involving a cabinet put together entirely by tongue and dado joints finally gave me the kick i needed to pick up a dado stack. Sure, i couldve just used a router, by honestly im not too fond of routers. So, that in mind i picked up the craftsman 8 inch set. Havent really started using it yet, but ive been impressed with the set thus far. Comes in a pretty swanky case for one:


Everything in its own little spot, and the set comes with the 2 outer blades, 4 1/8 chippers and 1 each of 1/16 and 3/32 chippers, as well as a pretty good assortment of shims. Cut quality is solid too:


Both cross and with grain cuts came out nice and clean, even in the cheap crap plywood i was testing with. Im pretty satisfied so far, although i did have to fabricate a new throat plate to fit the stack:


But thats a story for another time
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post #2 of 19 Old 02-26-2016, 10:48 AM
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Many patterns/designs can be created with stacked dados, just take your time to measure and test first. Thanks for sharing, and be safe.
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post #3 of 19 Old 02-27-2016, 08:46 AM
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Looks like a decent set
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post #4 of 19 Old 02-27-2016, 07:59 PM
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I have seen that set & it looked like a good piece for the $$. I'm sure you'll give a thorough workout...

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post #5 of 19 Old 02-27-2016, 08:45 PM
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Ya know ......

If you are going to post this product you should also give a link and or the model number so others can find it easliy........ 'specially if it's really good!

However, I saved you the trouble:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm-8i...1&blockType=G1

Now the big question. Did you pay full price? Those cuts on the plywood are really impressive, no tearout that I can see. I wonder if it's made in Germany, like your Craftsman saw blades?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #6 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
If you are going to post this product you should also give a link and or the model number so others can find it easliy........ 'specially if it's really good!

However, I saved you the trouble:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm-8i...1&blockType=G1

Now the big question. Did you pay full price? Those cuts on the plywood are really impressive, no tearout that I can see. I wonder if it's made in Germany, like your Craftsman saw blades?
Excellent point on the link wood, thank you for correcting my oversight on not posting it! And yes, I did pay full price, there wasn't a sale running and I found $100 to be a fair price for a dado stack. Dunno about the manufacturing location though.

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post #7 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Turns out though, there is a downside. I was wondering why I needed to stack the outer scoring blades (.25) with a 3/32 chipper (.09), a .020 shim and a .005 shim, .365 total, in order to get a 3/8 (.375) thick cut. I had already tried going the scoring blades with a 1/8 chipper, and that ended up oversized. So, I did some checking and noticed that the scoring blades had some wobble, and by some im mean nearly 15 thousandths near the blade edge.

My saw doesn't have any measurable run-out on the arbor, at least not with the tools I have to measure it with, and my 10 inch craftsman combo blade measures less than 5 thou run-out an inch further out than I tested the dado blades at, so it's definitely the dado that's off, not my tools. Given that the 2 blades are the same maker, something tells me I just got a dud with this dado stack.

So, alas, this ones getting sent back to Sears. I'm going to try exchanging it, because even with the run-out issues the stack preformed extremely well, shocking well when considering the run-out actually. I'm hoping I just got a dud this time and the exchange unit will preform flawlessly, but until then I'm afraid I'll have to retract my recommendation

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post #8 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 07:52 AM
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checking "run out" on a blade ?

I'm not a machinist, so I can only suggest that there may be a good way and a poor way to check the runout on not only the blade plate but the arbor as well.

The arbor has a flange and a shaft, either of which could induce runout. If the flange or any of the washers/spacers has any wobble or variation in the thickness, that would induce a side to side wobble when checking the blade plate. If the shaft has any wobble that would also induce a side to side play. If the shaft is not concentric it will show a vertical eccentricty when rotated.

Then there is the blade it self. If you set the blade on the arbor which may not be true, or a flange that has runout, you won't get a proper reading.

The tools you have would have to be fairly accurate and the proper procedure followed to come to any accurate conclusions regarding and of the3 3 variables.
Just my .02$ :smile3:


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-28-2016 at 09:24 AM.
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post #9 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 08:33 AM
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That looks to be the same set as the DeWalt/Delta 7670 that gets pretty high marks compared to other sets in the $100 range.

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post #10 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I'm not a machinist, so I can only suggest that there may be a good way and a poor way to check the runout on not only the blade plate but the arbor as well.

The arbor has a flange and a shaft, either of which could induce runout. If the flange or any of the washers/spacers has any wobble or variation in the thickness, that would induce a side to side wobble when checking the blade plate. If the shaft has any wobble that would also induce a side to side play. If the shaft is not concentric it will show a vertical eccentricty when rotated.

Then there is the blade it self. If you set the blade on the arbor which may not be true, or a flange that has runout, you won't get a proper reading.

The tools you have would have to be fairly accurate and the proper procedure followed to come to any accurate conclusions regarding and of the3 3 variables.
Just my .02$ :smile3:

Blade and Arbor Run-Out - YouTube
I checked the run-out on the blade, arbor and arbor flange all with a dial indicator. The arbor and flange all checked out perfect, with no discernable run-out. In addition, my other blades all have less than 5 thou run-out measured furthest out I can get on the rim of a 10 inch blade, so it's definitely the dado blades at fault. I believe I mentioned this in my last post

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post #11 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
I checked the run-out on the blade, arbor and arbor flange all with a dial indicator. The arbor and flange all checked out perfect, with no discernable run-out. In addition, my other blades all have less than 5 thou run-out measured furthest out I can get on the rim of a 10 inch blade, so it's definitely the dado blades at fault. I believe I mentioned this in my last post
Chris, I have a calibration plate for aligning the TS. You're welcome to borrow it, and anything else I have for the matter. I have a few calibration dials, etc. Just let me know.

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post #12 of 19 Old 02-28-2016, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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So, bad news. I exchanged the set this morning, got the new stack set up with the scoring blades and a 1/8 chipper, which should by all logic cut a .375 groove. Unfortunately, said groove measured .39. A quick check on the blades revealed that the scoring blades once again didnt run true.

So, despite the quality of the cut, which remains remarkably good in spite of the runout, this set is going back. Too bad really, as i generally have good results with craftsman, and the combination blade i have of theirs is fantastic. Closer inspection, however, shows that the combo blade is made in germany and the dado stack is made in china, so im sure that differing manufacturers with different QA procedures came int play.

Im now looking into a set from a different brand, hopefully one i can buy locally, limiting my optiuons to lowes, home depot and grizzly. With what those stores carried i find myself narrowing the choices down to the Grizzly Extreme Series set, the Irwin Marples set or the Freud Diabolo set. Im leanin towards the grizzly, but im open to suggestions

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post #13 of 19 Old 02-29-2016, 01:12 PM
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There is a fourth variable in this equation, even on a wobbly disk if the teeth are ground true in relation to the axis it is rotating on it will have no effect on the cut.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
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post #14 of 19 Old 02-29-2016, 03:23 PM
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Exactly!

This is so true, however I don't know how they would grind the teeth on a wobbly plate....? and if they did it perfectly for one orientation, another 90 degrees of rotation may not be correct... I donno? You would have to mount the blade in the same orientation as it was ground, probably not likely.

I also think this true no matter how close the blade is to perfect.... zero runout, Some teeth will always be cutting a hair more than others. Watch your blade spin down as you shut the saw off it seems to have some sort of harmonic vibration, at least mine do.

If it were me, I may be tempted to just keep it based on the clean, tear out free cuts. I don't know about the Sears/Craftsman warranty on saw blades. Is it "lifetime" like on their hand tools?

On the other hand, I have 2 sets of Oshlun dados, a 6" and an 8" and both perform pretty well. Got mine off Ebay and under $100.00. Did I mention I don't like glue ups with dados? Sometimes there is just no better way.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-29-2016, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
There is a fourth variable in this equation, even on a wobbly disk if the teeth are ground true in relation to the axis it is rotating on it will have no effect on the cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
This is so true, however I don't know how they would grind the teeth on a wobbly plate....? and if they did it perfectly for one orientation, another 90 degrees of rotation may not be correct... I donno? You would have to mount the blade in the same orientation as it was ground, probably not likely.

I also think this true no matter how close the blade is to perfect.... zero runout, Some teeth will always be cutting a hair more than others. Watch your blade spin down as you shut the saw off it seems to have some sort of harmonic vibration, at least mine do.

If it were me, I may be tempted to just keep it based on the clean, tear out free cuts. I don't know about the Sears/Craftsman warranty on saw blades. Is it "lifetime" like on their hand tools?

On the other hand, I have 2 sets of Oshlun dados, a 6" and an 8" and both perform pretty well. Got mine off Ebay and under $100.00. Did I mention I don't like glue ups with dados? Sometimes there is just no better way.
It wasnt just measuring the runout, that was just the most obvious sign something was up. The cut dados also varied by roughly 20 thou oversized based on what they shouldve been

I did actually consider keeping the set, regardless of the runout. I realize some runout is unavoidable, but at the same time if im shelling out a decent bit of money, i want whatever i buy to at least preform with a reasonable amount of accuracy. I dont find 20 thou to be reasonable

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post #16 of 19 Old 02-29-2016, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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So, funny story. After returning the craftsman set to sears this afternoon, i stopped by Grizzly with the intent of picking up their Extreme Series Dado Set. Got turned off on that one owing to the weird size of the blades, 3/32 vs 1/8 on most others, so i wouldnt be able to cut normal, fractional dados without a shim. Ew. Anyway, decided to pick up a Dewalt 7670 kit.

For those who dont get the joke, the Dewalt 7670 is the excat same kit as the craftsman one, just painted yellow and $15 more expensive.

Turns out, that $15 goes straight into quality control. The Dewalt set was bang-on, dado size wise, straight out of the swanky case, and the quality of cut was just as good.

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post #17 of 19 Old 02-29-2016, 08:47 PM
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Glad you found something that works. That $15 is also worth not having to keep returning & trying new sets.

FWIW, I was Home Depot today & I was checking out their Freud Dado set. Looked a lot like the CMT set I bought a few years ago.

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post #18 of 19 Old 03-01-2016, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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Glad you found something that works. That $15 is also worth not having to keep returning & trying new sets.

FWIW, I was Home Depot today & I was checking out their Freud Dado set. Looked a lot like the CMT set I bought a few years ago.

Mark
I actually considered picking up one of the freud sets, but I haven't had that great of results with Freud blades. Besides, I'm a sucker for a swanky case

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post #19 of 19 Old 03-01-2016, 09:51 AM
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I have the dewalt 7670 set and have loved it so far.

wish I had a cool line like everyone else...
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