Wood machining or woodworking? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 88 Old 02-20-2018, 07:27 PM
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I've been woodworking since the 80s, interest in woodworking and hand tools has never been higher. Interest in quality furniture has never been higher. When I started there was a lot fewer information sources for hand tools, a lot of old information had almost been lost in the early to mid twentieth century. I don't think we are in any danger of woodworking going extinct during any of our lifetimes.
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post #22 of 88 Old 02-20-2018, 07:44 PM
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There's a reason the hand tools aren't used in production any more: it's not economically viable. For large scale production runs, it's just plain faster to use machines, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

There are still people who use medium format cameras and developing their own film.
And as I have read and heard in the acoustic guitar Luthier circles on the CNC discussion, if CF Martin had had CNC back in 1833 he would have used them when he started that awesome company. If Henry Ford and others like him had the kind of control and equipment we have available now they would have used them way back when.

On the photography topic, I still have my Mamiya RB67 and I just gave my Canon FTb and half dozen lenses to my 20 year old daughter who has been doing digital photography for several years. She prefers film and wants her own darkroom. I've been doing photography for about 45 years and have had two darkrooms, did a fair amount of 4x5 sheet film work, too. These days it's all digital for me but the lessons I learned doing it all with film and all that entails has made me a much better digital photographer today.

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post #23 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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And as I have read and heard in the acoustic guitar Luthier circles on the CNC discussion, if CF Martin had had CNC back in 1833 he would have used them when he started that awesome company. If Henry Ford and others like him had the kind of control and equipment we have available now they would have used them way back when.

On the photography topic, I still have my Mamiya RB67 and I just gave my Canon FTb and half dozen lenses to my 20 year old daughter who has been doing digital photography for several years. She prefers film and wants her own darkroom. I've been doing photography for about 45 years and have had two darkrooms, did a fair amount of 4x5 sheet film work, too. These days it's all digital for me but the lessons I learned doing it all with film and all that entails has made me a much better digital photographer today.

David
Thanks for a thoughtful reply, David.

If everything is dictated by economic/commercial interests then soon there will be no hobbies left. Perhaps even sports will be played by robots. Suppose you had grown up in today's digital age, you would neither have learned so much about photography, nor would you have developed the necessary skills. The same is the case in woodworking. If driven by commercial interests only, many basic woodworking skills will vanish and everybody will then have to rely on robots/computers for even minor repair jobs.

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post #24 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 03:42 AM
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There are robots "sports" .....

Robot Wars are already popular:
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post #25 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jig_saw View Post
If everything is dictated by economic/commercial interests then soon there will be no hobbies left. Perhaps even sports will be played by robots. Suppose you had grown up in today's digital age, you would neither have learned so much about photography, nor would you have developed the necessary skills. The same is the case in woodworking. If driven by commercial interests only, many basic woodworking skills will vanish and everybody will then have to rely on robots/computers for even minor repair jobs.
I disagree. You're missing a (the?) key difference between production and hobby: A production business has to be financially viable, and a hobby doesn't. I've spoken with photographers young enough that film cameras weren't required, and they're learning just as much about lighting, exposure, depth of field, and so on as any film photographer. The technology has changed, but the depth of knowledge hasn't.

I've worked with college students who are into 3D printing, and want to learn some traditional skills to supplement it, because it's not good for everything. Those skills may only survive in a small percentage of the population, but the people who want them will still be able to learn them. This web site is a really good example of that, honestly.
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post #26 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 09:03 AM
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Jig saw what is your source of income? I have several and I couldnít survive on any of them if I abandoned modern equipment.
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post #27 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 09:03 AM
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To me its not the tools used but the end product. Both hand and motorized tools can produce junk or beautiful pieces of art, dependent on the skill of the craftsperson.

THE GOOD NEWS: You create your own destiny...THE BAD NEWS: You create your own destiny
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post #28 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 09:40 AM
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In the true sense of the word, woodworking should be using one's muscles to cut, join, shave, and polish wood in order to make wooden products. Right now, we are seeing an increasing departure from this art toward machined wood products, where all the work is done by power tools of higher and higher sophistication. If we continue in this direction, very soon we will have CNC machines and robotic 'workers' to operate them. Then everything becomes computerized and only the skills of the programmers and robot engineers will matter.

We should do everything possible to preserve the human woodworking skills by hand, otherwise we will soon lose them.

What are your thoughts on this? Thank you.
Actually your statement is not correct. In the true sense of the word, by definition, "Woodworking", is "the activity, or skill, of making things from wood".

Whether you accomplish this with muscle, machines, or any combination thereof, it is still "Woodworking".

The wonderful thing about this discipline is you can go at it however you want. If you want to use primitive tools, you can. If you want to use modern machinery, you can. The really great thing is that very seldom do you see someone disrespect another wood worker for the technique they have chosen to use.

Do we need to preserve hand skills? I don't have a driving urge to go start a movement to do so, there will always be folks that do, and I have respect for them. There will always be a use for hand skills in what I do, but it isn't the only aspect of woodworking for me.
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post #29 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Jig saw what is your source of income? I have several and I couldnít survive on any of them if I abandoned modern equipment.
Woodworking is my hobby, but I am passionate about it. That is the reason I am on this forum. But that is not the point. We see human skills and abilities declining everywhere (kids today can't do sums in their heads as we used to do; they need computers for that). I wonder how any kids can draw and paint by hand, instead of using Windows Microsoft Paint etc. If we go down this road, the future of humanity is bleak. Do you want to see humans reduced to lazy, dumb slobs with machines doing all the work (even thinking)? I certainly don't.
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post #30 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jig_saw View Post
Woodworking is my hobby, but I am passionate about it. That is the reason I am on this forum. But that is not the point. We see human skills and abilities declining everywhere (kids today can't do sums in their heads as we used to do; they need computers for that). I wonder how any kids can draw and paint by hand, instead of using Windows Microsoft Paint etc. If we go down this road, the future of humanity is bleak. Do you want to see humans reduced to lazy, dumb slobs with machines doing all the work (even thinking)? I certainly don't.
I guess I interact with a different slice of humanity than you do. I know (or have at least met) young people who paint, sculpt, draw, and produce fantastic photos. I also know young people who figured out how to 3D print a violin for themselves, and got deep enough into design that they were collaborating with a hospital to produce 3d printed prosthetics for children. They build and fly model aircraft, and work with all kinds of technology. They lead marches, and claim unused space in their neighborhood or college campus to grow a garden. Some of them build foundries in their yard so they can experiment with metal casting.

Using CAD, or CNC, or, for that matter, Photoshop, is not work for a "dumb slob". At the highest levels, it's extremely precise and complex work that requires as much training and dedication as any of the trades or arts ever did.

I see a lot of this sort of thinking, and it bothers me, because it seems to be based on the assumptions that, first, nothing should ever change, and, second, the way things used to be is best, and anyone who doesn't live that way isn't as good as people who did. Things are different, yes. Some skills that used to be common and necessary are now uncommon and largely unnecessary. My math teacher used to say "Of course you need to learn to do long division! Do you think you're going to carry a calculator around with you all the time?" 25 years later, I can answer with confidence that the answer is "Yes, I am. It's also my phone, dictionary, maps, and encyclopedia, and I've been carrying it for almost a decade now."

I don't think anyone on this forum would argue that it's not worth preserving old skill sets, or that there are never times when, for instance, hand tools are more effective. But we're also the proof that those skills are being preserved, and that new tools can comfortably interact with old.
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post #31 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 12:09 PM
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Woodworking is my hobby, but I am passionate about it. That is the reason I am on this forum. But that is not the point. We see human skills and abilities declining everywhere (kids today can't do sums in their heads as we used to do; they need computers for that). I wonder how any kids can draw and paint by hand, instead of using Windows Microsoft Paint etc. If we go down this road, the future of humanity is bleak. Do you want to see humans reduced to lazy, dumb slobs with machines doing all the work (even thinking)? I certainly don't.
Allow me to point out that if it weren't for those machines doing all the work, you would not have the free time, nor the resources, to pursue your woodworking passion. Some people may be lazy slobs, but I say that those machines also free us to pursue new knowledge and develop new technologies in many sectors. The smartphone that you carry sprung up from a team of people, many of whom have those craftsman-type skills that you are concerned about. Sometimes they use modern tools to achieve the same results more efficiently or with better quality - say, using a 3D printer instead of clay modeling. It is still sculpting. Modern software engineering is equally a learned craft, just like woodworking.

Humans evolve. Some old skills are lost, many new skills are developed. Sometimes a few people learn or re-learn old skills. They learn skills for the sheer joy of doing it, like old-time hand-tools-only woodworkers, but also musicians, dancers, and people in all walks of life.

Our world is full of new and innovative music, made with musical instruments (machines) that could not have been conceived in olden days. I suspect that few people play dulcimers and viols these days, but they have been replaced with a superabundance of people who can play modern electronic keyboards at very high skill levels. Trust me, few people are mourning the loss of dulcimer and viol playing skills, other than a few dulcimer and viol players. @Jig_saw's complaints sound a lot like them.

Sometimes people learn old skills for academic study. There are a few paleontologists who are quite skilled at flint knapping to make stone tools, such as the stone tools used for sawing bones to get the marrow. Stone knapping is not easy. It takes a lot of practice and a trained, skilled eye. Stone saws are not made or used much these days. We have replacements that are far better. Modern steel saw blades outperform their stone equivalents. I note that Jig_saw buys the steel blades that he/she uses for his/her hand tooled woodworking, and doesn't mind using them. They are made using machines. Should we insist that it isn't woodworking if we don't make our own tools? That would be taking Jig_saw's point to the absurd, in my opinion.

Hand tool woodworking skills will be lost over time, replaced with modern equivalents. Perhaps all of our "standard" power tools will be replaced with a single automated machine that forms each part to shape using computers (a la CNC). Perhaps we will build our wood furniture with "wood paste" using the woodworking equivalent of a 3D printer. (Personally, I don't think I would enjoy that, or the products that may come from it.) In the future, woodworkers may focus more on the art of woodworking, and less on the mechanics of producing that art. To a certain degree, power tools are helping us do just that.

Still, there will be a few rare people who will fall in love with old-style craftsmanship and preserve it while the rest of us move on. Your grandchildren will find them at Colonial Williamsburg or Henry Ford's Greenfield Village.

Do I enjoy woodworking for its own sake? Yes. Do I mourn the replacement of hand tools with modern equivalents? Not really. Do I feel that "real woodworking" should be done only with hand tools? Absolutely not.

I think we are seeing a natural, normal evolution of woodworking that aligns with similar evolution in most fields. I am not at all concerned that craftsman skills are being lost. It has happened throughout history, and we must keep in mind that those "hand tools" that Jig_saw reveres for woodworking craftsmanship are themselves the evolution of cruder, more primitive tools. The skills for doing woodworking with those ancient, crude tools may have been lost. At best, they have been preserved by a few academics and interested, devoted hobbyists, and that's okay with me.
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post #32 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 12:45 PM
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Yes, this has been the way of the world since Caxton invented printing and made books etc available for everyone.
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post #33 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 12:55 PM
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That's why it is doubly important to buy up all the old woodworking books that you can lay your hands on.
Those books fail the value decision made by young people as to what gets digitized and what doesn't.
Maybe 2,000 titles in my little library, mostly reference books, and growing when I can.
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I still shoot 4x5 and print to 16x20. I've got 50,000 dpi in pure silver. Can printers match that?
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post #34 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 01:09 PM
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hand tools are "machines" ....

This whole discussion can be simplified by the realization that even hand tools like chisels and hand planes are machines themselves. Physics tells us that an an inclined ramp is a simple machine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclined_plane
There are more sophisticated versions of the same concept like the thickness planer or jointer which introduces rotary motion and electrical power.

If this is all about using your muscles rather than whatever machine you choose, then let's declare that to be the case. There are plenty of places around the world where electrical power and sophisticated machines are not available, so there is lots of room for hand power tools. If it's also about painstaking hand labor and the satisfaction from working that way, then let's declare that to be the case.

For the rest of us it's called progress..... just sayin'

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post #35 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 01:10 PM
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[...] I still shoot 4x5 and print to 16x20. I've got 50,000 dpi in pure silver. Can printers match that?
No. Can I tell the difference between the best printers and your pure silver? I don't know. I have seen some amazing digital prints recently. Do most people appreciate the difference between the output of printers vs. pure silver prints from a darkroom? Maybe, but maybe not. Do they appreciate the difference enough to be willing to pay the extra costs? I doubt it. Do they care if they get a more durable, longer lasting print? I doubt that, too.

MP3s have poorer audio quality than CDs, and some people argue that CDs are inferior to vinyl records, yet CDs won the marketplace over vinyl, and MP3s appear to have won the marketplace over CDs, despite the inferior quality sound.

People vote with their wallets. If they appreciated superior high craftsmanship products, then they would buy more of them. The masses do not seem to value or cannot afford high craftsmanship products as much as they once did.
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post #36 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 01:26 PM
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No. Can I tell the difference between the best printers and your pure silver? I don't know. I have seen some amazing digital prints recently. Do most people appreciate the difference between the output of printers vs. pure silver prints from a darkroom? Maybe, but maybe not. Do they appreciate the difference enough to be willing to pay the extra costs? I doubt it. Do they care if they get a more durable, longer lasting print? I doubt that, too.
Some people do want the more durable and higher quality prints: that's why the tools are still available. Those cheaper prints mean a lot more people can have their own artwork framed on their wall, though!

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MP3s have poorer audio quality than CDs, and some people argue that CDs are inferior to vinyl records, yet CDs won the marketplace over vinyl, and MP3s appear to have won the marketplace over CDs, despite the inferior quality sound.
Weirdly, vinyl is making a comeback and CDs are dying. CDs were the quick, easy, portable revolution in my generation (approximately Gen-X), and were overtaken by MP3 very quickly. Now a lot of people buy MP3 instead of CDs, and the audiophiles are starting to go back to buying LPs. If you take care of them, they last longer and can sound better, and they're not much more expensive to make.

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People vote with their wallets. If they appreciated superior high craftsmanship products, then they would buy more of them. The masses do not seem to value or cannot afford high craftsmanship products as much as they once did.
I think the big piece is affordability. As material prices go up and the economic divide widens, people just can't afford high quality furniture. When the choice is milk crates and ramen or Ikea and go hungry, quality doesn't even factor in. As far as I can tell, quality costs more now than it ever has before (and frequently isn't as good, but that's a different issue). I've been lucky enough to fall into a good career that pays fairly well, and have a parter who managed the same. (She's actually making more than me at the moment, I think.) Most of the high-quality furniture we have is either inherited or found used: we can't really afford to buy top-end stuff.
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post #37 of 88 Old 02-21-2018, 01:39 PM
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I have a silver print of a white chrysanthemum, 38" x 29", double matted, oversize glass and frame, hanging in the dining room. No visible grain. People ask me where I bought the poster, even with my signature in silver on the print!

I like wood working hand tools, maybe a little more than most, as I like to do wood carving in the winters.
Even using an electric chainsaw indoors is a Hello of a mess.
Mostly now, I'm using the adzes and the crooked knives so common here in the Pacific Northwest.
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post #38 of 88 Old 02-23-2018, 01:07 PM
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Woodworking is my hobby, but I am passionate about it. That is the reason I am on this forum. But that is not the point. We see human skills and abilities declining everywhere (kids today can't do sums in their heads as we used to do; they need computers for that). I wonder how any kids can draw and paint by hand, instead of using Windows Microsoft Paint etc. If we go down this road, the future of humanity is bleak. Do you want to see humans reduced to lazy, dumb slobs with machines doing all the work (even thinking)? I certainly don't.
My dad used to say the same things about "kids today," lazy, can't do math, can't count change, can't pump gas; it was your generation he was talking about. People don't change, but they romanticize the past. How long have you been woodworking? Really? The hobby is healthier than its ever been with more resources than ever before. In fact, there are too many resources but thats not the worst thing. Don't worry, woodworking is doing fine and young people will grow up, grow old, and gripe about young people.
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post #39 of 88 Old 02-24-2018, 12:47 AM
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Below are just some of my thoughts and comments of what I have read here.

I can more than respect "opinions" as we all have them and they can be both fresh or "stinky" depending on how well they have been developed and/or thought through.

I think I have written enough on this matter to get my perspective (and opinion...ha, ha) accross...

Thanks to the OP for the question and debate...

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Originally Posted by WeebyWoodWorker View Post
However if traditional woodworking can get a rebirth within my generation then it'll live on forever, enough people just have to keep it relevant.
It has Brother it has!!!

As a traditional wood worker, I can not even begin to give words to the massive influx I have seen in the last 2 decades from 30 somethings and younger turning toward the guild arts and traditional crafts of all types. It is more than massive, in my view and experience. More and more each year.

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I could not make a living doing everything by hand. Nobody would pay for the time required. Nor do I want to fell a tree with an axe, rive it by hand into boards, plane those boards smooth, and wait a couple of years for it all to dry before I can build my customer's furniture. It's not feasible. I greatly appreciate my TS, router, planer, and jointer. They help me do a lot of the prep work before I get to the plane, the japanese saws, and my chisels.
First...I do use power tools. Very expensive ones from Festool and Mafell to 1942 18" table saw by North Field.

So...I'm speaking from the point of view that "power" can have its place at the table...by all means. It is of great use and application for both the armature and professional alike, to be sure.

Nevertheless, this constant suggestion that one can't "make a living by doing everything by hand..." is simply a false statement and often discourages those younger "up and coming" designers, artisan and craftspeople wanting to get into woodworking as well as the other traditional arts.

I can more than appreciate that someone may not know how to work exclusively with hand tools to make a living, but please don't drag the craft down with such nonsense about "dry wood" and other misinformation based in lack of traditional teaching, and experiential knowledge built within the craft itself...If you don't have it (or don't want it) that is fine...but don't make observations that simply are not accurate. There are many that "work wood" green and with hand tools that make a living from it...Its not for everyone, but it can be had for those willing to work toward it...

This is only offered respectfully, but also with a voice from someone that represents those that do work professionally more often with "green wood" and with "hand tools"...and I do make a living with it...

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I disagree. Woodworking is working wood. In 2016 I built a CNC router but it's just another tool...So as long as I bring wood into the shop, cut and shape it in some fashion - by hand or machine - and produce a finished piece I'll continue to call what I do woodworking...
David...we will have to disagree on this point, but I can respect your perspective...

If anyone "machines wood" for the majority of its production into something...One is a wood machinist...NOT a woodworker. I can call a Duck a Chicken all I want...It is still a Duck, and hand tool work is very different that wood machining.

Now, to be clear, I am not putting machining wood down completely...Not at all. If you like it, and it gives you pleasure while you do it...That is more than enough. If the work is of quality and functional beauty...all the better. Nevertheless, it is not the same as tooling wood with muscle alone and having the much more intimate and deeper relationship with the wood necessary to pull it off...which is mandatory to the proper application of hand tools...especially at a production level.

Wood Machinists, for the most part, treat wood no differently than a piece of plastic or plywood...Neither of which have the subtitles, nuances and essence of natural wood...

One is not necessarily better than the other either...of that I can agree...

However, one has hurt the quality and understanding of "wood craft" way more than the other...That, historically and within the craft overall when examined thoroughly can't really be debated...

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...After all it was the craftsman of yesteryear that came up with the machinery to make it quicker to manufacture the products they make. I bet if you could go back in time and set him up with a jointer I bet he would be overjoyed...Now having said that the furniture companies under pressure to make their products cheap are taking too many shortcuts with materials and techniques. They are the ones ruining the art of woodworking.
Steve, I apologize for cutting up you words here, but it is vital I make some very strong points toward the historical context of our shared love in woodworking.

One...it is a bloody excuse (too often used by wood machinists) that "If they had them, they would have use them." I've heard it my entire career and it always comes out of the mouths of those trying to justify there approach to woodworking. No, they would not have...and many didn't. Many still don't today, and even more are very selectively using less and less of them as they build there "traditional skill sets" back up to what they once had been.

I love the 21st century and the ability to communicate so rapidly with so many and learn so much without leaving my office, where once I would have to travel for days and spend hours to find some manuscript or tomb that had information I wanted, or to meet an elder before they passed on before leaving bits of their knowledge behind...For that I am grateful and do not want to be a complete Luddite, though I still don't have or keep a cell phone around unless a client insist on one for a project...ha, ha...

To be very clear also, the IR (industrial revolution) of the late 1700's was facilitated by industrialists (today's big industry) to ram product out of their mills and factors using less and less skilled labor. They are the primary developers of "machined wood," and not any "craftsman" of that time period...only slightly punctuated by some Shaker, and related tool innovations. That's the actual history of it...because, for the most part, it was not about "craft" or skill in work...It was about consumerism, profit and industrialization. with more worth placed on "profit margines" and "production" than quality in workmanship...

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Originally Posted by andr0id View Post
Woodworking = making stuff out of wood.
Metalworking = making stuff out of metal.

Would we expect a metal worker to do everything by hand using a file and a rudimentary hand operated lathe? Of course not.

Why would we place such restrictions on woodworking based only the the material of the product.

That makes no sense to me.
If it doesn't make sense to you...I can respect that...

Not knowing something (or understanding it) is a place we all come from...

That doesn't make the position logical, or sound in reasoning or understanding.

"Why would we place such restrictions," is a pretty easy one to answer if you actually work within any of the guild arts. Ask a Sword Smith from Japan or Korea why he/she does it by hand. Ask a master Ceramicists, Textilist, Saddle Maker, Cobbler etc (some of the other working craft skills I strive to perfect) "why" we do it by hand...Because a machine can't do the work that the human hand and mind in concert can.

Until we have true sentient AI (which is most likely coming) with full working dexterity and ambulatory abilities, a "machine" never will make what a human can...BY HAND. As such, when AI do come, I embrace them as just another "life form" that has fallen in love with the magic that is "hand-mind work," no matter what "hand" or "mind" is doing it...

No other way can achieve the relationship one has with textile, clay, stone, wood or other natural mediums than accomplished by the inmate connection one develops with such..."hand-mind skills"...

Tosa Tomo Designs
Confucius (551 BCE): "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand..." "...Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance..." Socrates:ďI cannot teach anybody anything. I can only help them think..."
Stephen Covey:"Seek to understand, before seeking to be understood..."
Jay C. White Cloud is offline  
post #40 of 88 Old 02-24-2018, 04:18 AM
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I see it a bit differently based on my career

For 30 years I worked as an Industrial Designer and Sculptor at a Design Studio for General Motors. We took designs from paper sketches, to larger renderings, then to scale models in special automotive modeling "clay", to full size models with everything from the wheels to full interiors sculpted in clay formed over armatures. For the most part, 15 years ago most of the surfaces and details were done by "hand sculpting" with various razor sharp carving tools to remove the clay after it became hard at room temperature. It was applied at 150 degrees because it was more fluid and stuck to itself by "melting" the applied surface.

The process was intuitive and creative rather than mechanical. Some machines were used and programmed to do repetitive details like the sections on a wheel, but the initial design was done from a sketch and modeled by hand. I still have all my modeling tools after being retired for 20 years and will probably keep them for historical preservation.... LOL.

Here's a full size model I worked on called the Cadillac Voyage, that was never put into production, but a sleek looking car:

http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1988.../images/17651/

Before I retired in the late 90's, the 3D "modeling" process was beginning to become computerized by programs like Alias which allowed designers to see the 3 D product on a 2 D flat screen. You could rotate the object in all view to see it's surfaces, BUT it was like looking at the real thing. You could not make aesthetic decisions about surfaces without the real object, in this case a car, to look at in various lighting conditions. As you progressed in the craft, you understood that the clay merely was a surface to reflect the light. Eventually, a stretchable vinyl film was applied to act like paint. This was far more effective in reflecting the light than the clay, so more detail was evident. We worked to within 1/2 a mm sometimes to get it looking "just right", with lots of hand work and critical eyes on the surface.

As the quality of the computerized programs became more realistic, the designers got better at representing the shapes, but they were still on a flat screen. However, the computer "data" could be programmed into a robot, a 5 axis milling machine .... and then transferred to a full size clay model. About this time, the hand sculptor's demise was on the horizon. It wasn't completely eliminated, but the now designer could "talk" directly to the robot and the sculptor's job was minimized. I could still hand model a half scale model much faster than any designer or robot could, but duplicating the other half could be done better and faster by the "machine" process. We used large mirrors down the centerline of the model so you could look across and see the reflection as if it were the other half of the car.

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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-24-2018 at 04:34 AM.
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