Windows-10 vs. Windows Anything - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 01-16-2020, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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Windows-10 vs. Windows Anything

For over the last 25+ years I've been around swap meets and have heard, "I wouldn't run Windows xyz." What can I say? They're happy with MS-DOS, Linux, Red Hat or whatever. Let's forget about that conversation. To each his own.

Several years ago MS got a new executive that made what is probably the best corporate decision ever. The decision saved MS millions and at the same time made MS users totally enamored with MS. Competitors on the other hand said openly that the executive was an (improper adjective) idiot.

The decision was to upgrade all Windows versions to Windows-10. Individual users were free, while corporate users encountered a modest fee. The decision was brilliant and reduced MS support costs significantly. If you think about it, big bad MS says to the world, "We're dropping support on your version of Windows." Users are delighted or don't give a damn.

When looking out from the MS viewpoint, the most problematic, buggy and vulnerable to infections were individual systems. These can be made secure and kept secure. This reduces the bad press that MS would get when a new vulnerability was discovered in down versions.

When looking from the viewpoint into MS, there were teams (yes plural teams) maintaining down versions of Windows. Think, a manager and 10 or 12 people. That is an unnecessary expense. There are two problems or issues maintaining down versions. First the programmers don't want to work on old software. They are always bidding on jobs in other departments. Second tracing through someone else's code is a nightmare at best. If you have ever had to do it and encountered spaghetti code, you understand and why programmers tend to drink.

In another life, I spent three weeks trying to understand one particular instruction of assembler code. Finally I asked the manufacturer (LM Ericson) of the system / operating system, why. The response I got back was that they had been looking for that bug for over 5 years. Believe me what I say that trying to understand someone else's code is a nightmare. On top of that, telephony systems in those days were shear agony.

I don't know if it is still policy, but I upgraded both the desk top and lap top for free. The best computing decisions I ever made. I know that on second Tuesdays a new release is ready. And, yes I update both systems every month.

There was a comment that I heard while in an "Access" class at a Community College. One of the students, still in her teens and a single mom with a 3 year old. She was still living at home, drawing assistance from the state, on food stamps with tuition being paid for by the state. She had a computer that was at best a double hand-me-down. During a break, people were bashing Bill Gates for something that was current at the time. She said something that changed my perspective about Uncle Bill and Microsoft.

She said, "Bill Gates made it possible for people like me to have a computer." That statement was like getting hit by a train. I realized that MS is not the bad guy that so many try to make them out to be.

My advice here is to upgrade to W-10. If it isn't free anymore, try going to a Microsoft store and ask for a URL for the free upgrade. You can try a sob story like, "My dad died and he never upgraded." "Would you upgrade it for me?" "It was my brother's machine and I doubt that he even knew how to turn it on."

There are few things that are better than sliced bread but Windows-10 is one of them.
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post #2 of 51 Old 01-16-2020, 05:37 AM
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You can actually do something as simple as change the clock on a Windows 7 computer back to get the free update to Windows 10:
https://www.ghacks.net/2019/11/30/he...10-still-work/

Stupidly easy to do to. Course, youll always encounter That One Guy™ who will declare proudly that he wont upgrade because X program doesnt work in 10 or his settings are just the way he likes or Microsoft doesnt need any more money. Dont be that guy. That software that isnt supported in 10? Its not supported because its a bug-riddled mess that opens all sorts of vulnerabilities in your computer and was rendered obsolete years ago. Your settings transfer over seamlessly, and its a free upgrade, Microsoft makes nothing.

Face it yall, youre scared of progress. Update your computers, stop being a vector of transmission for every bit of malware that comes out targeting this obsolete software
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post #3 of 51 Old 01-16-2020, 06:23 AM
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I held out on Windows XP for as long as I could. I hated Vista and drivers for stuff I needed were scarce. We got Windows 7 at work and it was ok, but I was accustomed to XP and kept it at home. My girlfriend bought a laptop with Windows 8, and it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. My home PC finally bit the dust about a year ago so I bought a new one with Windows 10, and I was really surprised at how much I like it. I've had no problems finding drivers for older hardware (or in some cases just used it with XP drivers and it works) and anything I can't find or figure out on my own I can search for it right in the Start menu.
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post #4 of 51 Old 01-16-2020, 07:31 AM
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I gave @NoThankyou a "like" because he is encouraging others to upgrade their older Windows systems to Windows 10. From a safety and security point of view, that's a good idea.

My advice is:
If you are running Windows 7 or earlier, I recommend that you upgrade it to Windows 10, replace the computer, or do not allow it to connect to the internet.

I have nothing to say about Microsoft, Windows, or other operating systems like Linux. If you like them, great. If you don't, great. However you feel about them, you are right and I won't argue.

Regarding computer security, I have seen some good advice and also very bad advice here on WoodworkingTalk.

This is a woodworking forum. It is not a good place to learn good computing practices. I strongly urge others to do their own homework outside WoodworkingTalk regarding Microsoft's end of support for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 (R2, too). There is good information out there, at all levels of interest and capability.
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post #5 of 51 Old 01-16-2020, 10:01 PM
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Odd topic for a Woodworking Forum.......

I try to stay away from computer discussions on non computer forums, people don't know me unless they've seen me on Maximum PC forums, Mushkin forums, Corsair forums, EVGA forums, Newegg forums, etc....

I've agonized for several minutes deciding if I should break from that tradition here.

In the end, I've decided to only say that I'm happy using my Windows 7 Pro on my Z370 / i7-8700 gaming rig for the next few years, while Ubuntu continues to be developed & improved.... For those that love Windows 10 - god bless you, and be careful what you read, watch, play, search, do with your computer.......................... & no I will not elaborate any further than that unless you are a lawyer and follow proper channels.
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post #6 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 01:27 AM
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I built my gaming PC a few years ago and despite the fact that the only game I pretty much only play is Tetris I had to get Ten. Didn't like it at first but with a few quick coding changes you can modify it to act pretty much just like Seven which is pretty nice.



-T
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post #7 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosdsm View Post
I try to stay away from computer discussions on non computer forums, people don't know me unless they've seen me on Maximum PC forums, Mushkin forums, Corsair forums, EVGA forums, Newegg forums, etc....

I've agonized for several minutes deciding if I should break from that tradition here.

In the end, I've decided to only say that I'm happy using my Windows 7 Pro on my Z370 / i7-8700 gaming rig for the next few years, while Ubuntu continues to be developed & improved.... For those that love Windows 10 - god bless you, and be careful what you read, watch, play, search, do with your computer.......................... & no I will not elaborate any further than that unless you are a lawyer and follow proper channels.

What was just said here???


George
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post #8 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 07:38 AM
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I'm just guessing ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
What was just said here???


George

I think he is a "computer gamer", who's computer needs are very specific to playing fast moving reality games, unlike most of us on ordinary PC's. My son built his own his high speed gaming computer, 7 fans, water cooled, super fast graphics card, etc.... all stuff we don't need to type responses on WWT.


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
................................Face it yall, youre scared of progress. Update your computers, stop being a vector of transmission for every bit of malware that comes out targeting this obsolete software
I dont know anything about computers and I am wondering how much you know. I tried the free upgrade to Win 10 from Win 7 when it first came out. I forgot how many days we were allowed to transfer back because there was definitely a time limit. When running my 'upgraded' laptop in Win 10, it got real slow. I spoke to several people about it, including some fairly knowledgeable people. They pretty much said the same thing. My laptop probably didnt have the internal workings to handle the Win 10 because Win 10 required more memory or speed or something like that so I went back to Win 7.
So get off your high horse and come visit me in Texas and fix my laptop to work on Win 10, or just learn to be more careful with your words and phrases.

I have all my notes, photos, etc backed up and will continue to do so. I dont do online banking or anything that requires me to be concerned about security passwords That is all done on GF's laptop which also went through the free upgrade from Win 7 way back when. Her upgrade had not slowed down much like mine did.

So if you want to talk tough, fine, I'm not impressed.

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post #10 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 09:54 AM
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Interesting thread. I had a friend who designed programs/software for the healthcare industry. My first computer had Digital Research DOS (DR DOS), aka Doctor DOS. He said that was a better system than Microsoft Windows but guess who got all the hype???
Sign in an office- To err is human; To really screw it up, you need a computer.

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post #11 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
I dont know anything about computers and I am wondering how much you know. I tried the free upgrade to Win 10 from Win 7 when it first came out. I forgot how many days we were allowed to transfer back because there was definitely a time limit. When running my 'upgraded' laptop in Win 10, it got real slow. I spoke to several people about it, including some fairly knowledgeable people. They pretty much said the same thing. My laptop probably didnt have the internal workings to handle the Win 10 because Win 10 required more memory or speed or something like that so I went back to Win 7.
So get off your high horse and come visit me in Texas and fix my laptop to work on Win 10, or just learn to be more careful with your words and phrases.

I have all my notes, photos, etc backed up and will continue to do so. I dont do online banking or anything that requires me to be concerned about security passwords That is all done on GF's laptop which also went through the free upgrade from Win 7 way back when. Her upgrade had not slowed down much like mine did.

So if you want to talk tough, fine, I'm not impressed.
...so your argument is I don't know what I'm talking about because you had a computer with obsolete hardware?

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post #12 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 05:15 PM
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...so your argument is I don't know what I'm talking about because you had a computer with obsolete hardware?
No, not necessarily, it's your judgemental attitude towards others that sucks.
Words matter.
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post #13 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 07:39 PM
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No, not necessarily, it's your judgemental attitude towards others that sucks.
Words matter.
And your judgemental attitude towards me is... what exactly?

I stand by what i said, a fear of progress and the inexorable march forward of technology is no reason to not keep your OS up to date with current standards. Plenty of issues in the computer science world would be solved if people could be trusted to keep their technology up to date so every developer didnt have to appeal to legacy software, trying to work around problems that were solved years or decades ago because of some claim of technological fear.

Windows 10 has been around for 5 years now, Windows 7 has been obsolete since that happened yet still holds 30% of the OS market share, despite it being free and easy to upgrade. In the intervening time, Mircosoft has had to continue supporting an obsolete operating system, diverting resources that could go to solving literally any other problem. Yeah, sure, its judgemental of me to want people to update their software and give it a rest with the evangelical devotion to an obsolete software because "Microsoft is evil!". Its also judgemental of me to ask that someone not touch me after sneezing in their hands. Either way, im all for less vectors of transmission.

Seriously though, youre completely, 100% right in that statement. Words matter, im judgemental, sure, no arguments there. Pretty versed in computers though

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post #14 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 08:25 PM
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Lets move past this before we both embarrass ourselves.

So, peace brother.
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post #15 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosdsm View Post
... For those that love Windows 10 - god bless you, and be careful what you read, watch, play, search, do with your computer.......................... & no I will not elaborate any further than that unless you are a lawyer and follow proper channels.

The trend for the past several decades has been, "We know what you need to do. So we'll do it for you, and screw-you if we're wrong."



Whenever something begins to act up on my computer, I invariably find out that some software vendor has put in a hidden back door to re-activate their automatic updates after I have gone through lengths to disable them all. The biggest problem I have with Win10 is that there is supposedly no longer an option to shut down automatic updates. They break more than they ever fix.
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post #16 of 51 Old 01-17-2020, 11:36 PM
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Windows 10 doesn't suck. That's pretty good, considering the source. Some older software works, some specialty programs do not. But overall, I am using all the software possible, including some pretty old versions of Office. I do find that all modern Microsoft products require multiple clicks to accomplish actions that used to be quick and a click or two at most. Office today is using a variation on the old WordStar menu, but call it the ribbon. Just hate that thing. I have many licenses for Office 2003 (bought dozens of legal copies in original boxes), and the drop down menus get out of the way for what counts, the informatin you are entering. Happily, it installs and works well on Win 10. I started out resisting 10 until I had to convert an Access app to run on 32 bit machines. One of our clients managed to install the original version for 16 bit Windows on 10 with no problem. So I bit the bullet and bought a 10 laptop, and turns out I like it.
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post #17 of 51 Old 01-18-2020, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosdsm View Post
I try to stay away from computer discussions on non computer forums, people don't know me unless they've seen me on Maximum PC forums, Mushkin forums, Corsair forums, EVGA forums, Newegg forums, etc....
FWIW, I've asked non-forum topic questions on forums where I've known a lot of the members for many years and respect their opinions. You can Google a question and find virtually every possible answer imaginable, but how do you know you can trust those answers?
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post #18 of 51 Old 01-26-2020, 08:08 AM
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one thing that no one mentioned about 10, is that MS can send updates down the line any time they want to. in essence, they have control of your computer and can do anything they want to with it. i have 10 at work and 7 at home. it would be like me coming into your shop and using your tools whether your there or not. its a privacy issue with me.
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post #19 of 51 Old 01-26-2020, 11:01 AM
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one thing that no one mentioned about 10, is that MS can send updates down the line any time they want to. in essence, they have control of your computer and can do anything they want to with it. i have 10 at work and 7 at home. it would be like me coming into your shop and using your tools whether your there or not. its a privacy issue with me.
More like a handyman coming into your home when you're not there and fixing the broken sink before it floods the whole house.

Privacy is a valid concern for anyone, but easily dismissed in this instance. Microsoft is not the boogeyman. They aren't going to do you any harm. Besides, you give up more privacy just by browsing the internet.
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post #20 of 51 Old 01-26-2020, 01:58 PM
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I switched to Win 10 on my desktop but kept 7 on my laptop because it couldn't support 10 since it's older. I don't like using 10. It's too hard for me to find things. I like the way 7 flows and not being a computer person can get by just fine with it. Plus I don't like being prodded into buying a new computer evey time I get an alert from MS that 7 is unsupported. Not in the budget.
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