Why wont my glue hold??!? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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I am making a cutting board with thin laminations and for some reason the glue won't stick to the padauk strip. What's up with that? The first time I glued it up it broke apart when I took it to the planer. I thought maybe I used too much clamping pressure and squeezed all the glue out. So I sanded all the gluing surfaces with 100 grit and glued it back together with lots of glue. However, while sanding it it just pulled itself apart again. The strip is only 3/32" thick and should have no problem bending through this curve. Why won't the glue adhere to the padauk? Why wont my glue hold??!?-image-467247228.jpg Why wont my glue hold??!?-image-1981925608.jpg As I sanded it, here is what it did. Why wont my glue hold??!?-image-1332420707.jpg



Why wont my glue hold??!?-image-3741615665.jpg

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post #2 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 03:34 AM
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The glue did not freeze at some point did it?
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayking49
The glue did not freeze at some point did it?
You know, it's possible that it did. We had a cold spell a few weeks ago and my glue is in an unheated outbuilding. My garden hose froze with water in it. I have used the glue for other projects since and it has worked well. Also, it is just the one board that seems to be having issues.
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 04:51 AM
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Try wiping the padauk with acetone... It contains some oils that can be problematic.
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 07:15 AM
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Cnywoods is right. Padauk wood is oily and needs to have the surface oils cleaned off with acetone. I think though for a cutting board that will be washed from time to time you would be better off using Honduras mahogany instead. Padauk even if you clean it with acetone won't glue as well as other species.
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
I am making a cutting board with thin laminations and for some reason the glue won't stick to the padauk strip. What's up with that? The first time I glued it up it broke apart when I took it to the planer. I thought maybe I used too much clamping pressure and squeezed all the glue out. So I sanded all the gluing surfaces with 100 grit and glued it back together with lots of glue. However, while sanding it it just pulled itself apart again. The strip is only 3/32" thick and should have no problem bending through this curve. Why won't the glue adhere to the padauk? Attachment 107833 Attachment 107841 As I sanded it, here is what it did. Attachment 107849



Attachment 107857
what type of glue are you using ? may make a difference , if you use gorilla glue get the white not the syurp looking the syurp foam's and the white doesn't,
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post #7 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 11:59 AM
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glue or no glue, looks like there is a gap in the curve that the strip is not filling....
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post #8 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments. I am using Titebond 3. I'll try the acetone after I dress up the gluing surfaces with a card scraper.
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post #9 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bauerbach
glue or no glue, looks like there is a gap in the curve that the strip is not filling....
The gap is due to the glue not holding. There was no gap when it was clamped up.

I have now cleaned the padauk strip with acetone and glued it. I'm crossing my fingers this one will hold.
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post #10 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 03:06 PM
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There is more going on than the glue not holding. The maple is shrinking on the ends putting stress on the joint.
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post #11 of 15 Old 12-21-2014, 03:37 PM
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Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
There is more going on than the glue not holding. The maple is shrinking on the ends putting stress on the joint.
You were not able to remove all of the old glue, which is absolutely necessary to get a good new bond.

the Padauk is oily, and an epoxy would be better, than glue. You may want to use a different wood?

You are using the adjoining boards as forms to create the curve in the Padauk, and that may or may not work with that wood. I would use a different wood on the next attempt. Clean the adjoining edges right down to the bare wood and use extremely hot water or ammonia which if I remember is a solvent for PVC glues....? and scrape off any residue.


I don't think shrinkage is playing a significant role in this issue, since the other strips are fine... so far.

It is a very nice looking board.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #12 of 15 Old 12-22-2014, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for the great information. I was getting frustrated with this project, but you put me back on a good course.

I sanded the mating edges and removed the glue residue. I also used acetone to thoroughly wipe down the padauk and glued it again.

This time worked much better. I don't see any gaps and further machining didn't seem to bother the board.

After I had it all sanded and just about ready for oil, I decided to route finger recesses in the curved ends. As luck would have it, as I barely brought it into contact with the router bit, it grabbed the board and took chunks out of the entire end of the board. I guess that's what I get for routing the end grain. I sawed off the curved edge and refinished up that end of the board.

I put on a first coat of oil tonight and it looks really great. Thanks for all your help. I think I will avoid padauk next time.



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post #13 of 15 Old 12-22-2014, 12:57 PM
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Beautiful board, glad it turned out. Don't give up on the padauk. As we can see in your board, it can be used to beautiful effect.

Like Steve, I think there's more going on than just glue failure. I think that when you clamp up those curved strips into the maple layup, it's very possible to have uneven clamping pressure, possibly starving one part of the joint in one area while having a gap too wide for the glue to bridge in another. Also, making sure that all of the woods in your layup have reach moisture content equilibrium can help avoid unwanted movement. That type of glue is great in most applications, but it can't bridge much of a gap, it's prone to creep and that's not great in laminated curves. Add to that padauk's oily surface, movement of different woods and trouble is just around the corner. Epoxy doesn't creep and can bridge a gap. Epoxy doesn't like too much clamping pressure, so you still have to be concerned about over-clamping, using only moderate pressure. For the most part now, I only use either epoxy or regular yellow wood glue. I use epoxy for "normal" stuff and epoxy for everything else. Smith & Company makes an epoxy that is specifically designed for oily woods.

http://www.smithandcompany.org/TropicalHardwoodEpoxy/
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-22-2014, 02:09 PM
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I made 3 or 4 cutting boards this summer with a paduak strip in a maple board. I also made several bottle stoppers using a combination of maple, purple heart, and paduak and did not have any glue up problems. I did not wipe the paduak down with anything prior to glueing. I did use Tite bond III.
TOM
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-23-2014, 03:36 PM
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It could be what they call glue creep. It happens with bent laminations if you don't use the correct type glue. The material although glued up in a form to a curve will straighten out when taken from the form. Basically the glue can't hold the wood from going back to its original shape, straight. Since the paduak thinks its still straight it will want to go back to that shape unless you hot bend it, use several thinner strips or use a no creep adhesive.
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