Why put fence on the right side on table saw? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 77 Old 02-11-2016, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Please explain. If not for lefties, why?
Try cutting a 1" strip off a sheet of plywood with the base against a straight edge with a left hand blade and you will see why, it is so much easier.
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post #22 of 77 Old 02-13-2016, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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If you go back and read the previous posts there are inherent dangers, however if you want to ignore them that is up to you.
Well, I did not mean to say I would ignore all the pointers and tips that I have received, but I really did not see any "inherent danger" other than one regarding blade tilting angle, which I am very well aware and actually have mentioned in my original posting. All the other safety concerns and tips, such as never to reach over the spinning blade, would be applicable/true regardless of the fence location. Well, at least that's how I understood it.

Thank you for your concerns, however.

Have a nice day!
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post #23 of 77 Old 02-13-2016, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamster View Post
Well, I did not mean to say I would ignore all the pointers and tips that I have received, but I really did not see any "inherent danger" other than one regarding blade tilting angle, which I am very well aware and actually have mentioned in my original posting. All the other safety concerns and tips, such as never to reach over the spinning blade, would be applicable/true regardless of the fence location. Well, at least that's how I understood it.

Thank you for your concerns, however.

Have a nice day!

Most of the advice and 'tips' you got were from hobby woodworkers that have never done this stuff for a living. They might cut the same amount of wood in a year (or 10) that many professionals cut in a single day.

Reaching over or behind a spinning blade will NOT cause your saw to explode or your fingers to instantly detach from your body. You have to use your own common sense when choosing how to secure your material and making your cut.
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post #24 of 77 Old 02-13-2016, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Please explain. If not for lefties, why?
The left handed circular saw is a specialty tool commonly used by guys that have particular cuts that they do often enough to deem it as being 'helpful' to them and worth having around. There are times when you really 'want' the thing to swing over the other way to be able to make the cut that you want more quickly and more safely / easily.

Doing outside stair stringers that 45 to the risers is the best example I can think of right now. Depending on which side of the stair you are doing - You may really want a left handed circular saw to make the cuts.

Or you can just drive your regular circular saw (very carefully) backwards to do the same thing...


Stair guys are about the only guys you will ever see on a jobsite with one of these tools and most times we have to special order them when we finally decide to buy one... :smile3:
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post #25 of 77 Old 02-13-2016, 10:14 PM
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table saw vs circular saws

The 2 different types of saws and their safety issues are completely different and should not be compared as if they are the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post

Reaching over or behind a spinning blade will NOT cause your saw to explode or your fingers to instantly detach from your body.

Reaching over or behind the spinning blade on a table saw is a very risky procedure, and I would never recommend it. The cut off and the workpiece should always be safely pushed away to a position where they can be safely reached, either off onto the outfeed support or to the side away from the blade. To do otherwise is asking for Murphy to come along and make his presence known. If it can go wrong, it will .... kinda thing.

You have to use your own common sense when choosing how to secure your material and making your cut.

Securing your material is not needed on the tablesaw, but supporting it is.

If you start mixing advice for circular saws in with the original issue of right or left fence location on the table saw it will get confusing. You certainly have made great points on the use of right or left handed circular saws for staircase builds, but as Frank stated there are many occasion where having the blade and line visible on cutting or ripping panels is far easier with a left blade saw in the right hand of the operator. JMO.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #26 of 77 Old 02-13-2016, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking
Most of the advice and 'tips' you got were from hobby woodworkers that have never done this stuff for a living. They might cut the same amount of wood in a year (or 10) that many professionals cut in a single day. Reaching over or behind a spinning blade will NOT cause your saw to explode or your fingers to instantly detach from your body. You have to use your own common sense when choosing how to secure your material and making your cut.
I have seen a lot of professional woodworkers that lost their membership to the 10 finger club. Any way you slice it reaching over a spinning blade is a bad idea.
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post #27 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwebb99 View Post
I have seen a lot of professional woodworkers that lost their membership to the 10 finger club. Any way you slice it reaching over a spinning blade is a bad idea.
Reaching over a spinning blade won't hurt you unless you don't lift it up when returning it. Once the board has finished being cut and sitting on the catch table there is no reason you can't reach back and pick it up. It's when the board is still between the blade and the fence there is a danger and you should not reach over the blade.
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post #28 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 07:16 AM
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Murphy's Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Reaching over a spinning blade won't hurt you unless you don't lift it up when returning it. Once the board has finished being cut and sitting on the catch table there is no reason you can't reach back and pick it up. It's when the board is still between the blade and the fence there is a danger and you should not reach over the blade.
My opinion :
If the blade is exposed, and still spinning it's a potential hazard. If you can reach around it from the side and move your pieces, then there is no potential for injury.

If you reach over the spinning blade, 2 things can potentially happen:
!. the piece can slip out of your grip and fall on the blade which will kick it back at you.
2. if it slips out your grip, the natural instinct will be to try to catch it and that's when you may come too close to the blade and cause an injury. It's just not a good practice. :frown2:

You should always push all pieces, especially if they are narrow beyond the spinning blade with your push stick to the rear and to either side, and don't reach over the exposed blade. Don't take any chances or Murphy will show up and teach you a lesson. If you want to "take chances", buy a Lotto ticket or play Bingo, but not in the shop where there's too many things that can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong.....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #29 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
My opinion :
If the blade is exposed, and still spinning it's a potential hazard. If you can reach around it from the side and move your pieces, then there is no potential for injury.

If you reach over the spinning blade, 2 things can potentially happen:
!. the piece can slip out of your grip and fall on the blade which will kick it back at you.
2. if it slips out your grip, the natural instinct will be to try to catch it and that's when you may come too close to the blade and cause an injury. It's just not a good practice. :frown2:

You should always push all pieces, especially if they are narrow beyond the spinning blade with your push stick to the rear and to either side, and don't reach over the exposed blade. Don't take any chances or Murphy will show up and teach you a lesson. If you want to "take chances", buy a Lotto ticket or play Bingo, but not in the shop where there's too many things that can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong.....
When the board has been cut it's naturally to one side of the blade or the other. As far as dropping the material or anything goes wrong while the blade is turning I instinctively reach for the sky. I can't ever remember dropping a piece though. Around a spinning blade I'm more than a little careful.
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post #30 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 09:14 AM
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THis video says what I've been saying ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
When the board has been cut it's naturally to one side of the blade or the other. As far as dropping the material or anything goes wrong while the blade is turning I instinctively reach for the sky. I can't ever remember dropping a piece though. Around a spinning blade I'm more than a little careful.

In less then the first minute he says don't reach over the blade and have an accident like I did....

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post #31 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
In less then the first minute he says don't reach over the blade and have an accident like I did....

Woodworking Tips: Table Saw Safety Tips - YouTube
The video also dosen't say the operator knows what the H he's talking about.
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post #32 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 09:47 AM
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OK, then

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
The video also dosen't say the operator knows what the H he's talking about.
He's a pretty well known and respected woodworker ... but if you want to reach over an exposed, spinning blade you go right ahead. You should notice the demo saw is a Saw Stop with a fully covered blade. Since he said that's how he had his injury, it proves my point. I've also had a kick back doing that before learning a lesson. I wouldn't do it, and I don't recommend anyone else do it. Either wait until the blade completely stops or reach in from the side.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #33 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 09:59 AM
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with all the years Steve's been doing this professionally he doesn't deserve your respect? One can make all the videos in the world and still know very little about the professional work of woodworking...
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post #34 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
He's a pretty well known and respected woodworker ... but if you want to reach over an exposed, spinning blade you go right ahead. You should notice the demo saw is a Saw Stop with a fully covered blade. Since he said that's how he had his injury, it proves my point. I've also had a kick back doing that before learning a lesson. I wouldn't do it, and I don't recommend anyone else do it. Either wait until the blade completely stops or reach in from the side.
All it proves is he doesn't have the skill to be teaching others. When I went to work for the first professional shop the guy that owned the business took a lot of time to teach me to be safe around a saw and in more than 40 years I've never had even a close call. In addition I've worked around a lot of very fine craftsman over the years and we all reach over the blade. As long as the board is lifted a foot or more over the blade when retrieving it can't be a danger. For those just getting into woodworking and especially folks learning on their own they shouldn't be operating a saw without a guard anyway. It's like anything else, it takes the training.
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post #35 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 01:33 PM
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And to use a sawstop video to attempt to prove your point? Surely even you, wood, could do better than that with 50 years experience.😈

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post #36 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 02:03 PM
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You guys can operate your saws any way you want. I'm going to walk to the side of my saw to retrieve to piece.
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post #37 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 03:05 PM
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This is all I got left....

http://tablesawaccidents.com/


Pick your statistic. Of the 52,000 "reported accidents 17% were caused by "holing, pulling, or reaching over..." thats 8,840.


Or using this chart 13% were caused by "reaching over the blade" which is 6,760.


Which ever chart you use, it's too many injuries, and that's not my opinion, it's a fact. How many injuries went "unreported" ....

In 50% of the injuries, the blade guard was not on the saw:



You guys can do what you want ever in your own shops, but recommending a "potentially" risky procedure on a large forum like this is likely to influence some folks with less than 50 years of experience, .... just sayin'


Ya'll get your 5 HP 12" Powermatic reved up and drop a chunk of plywood on the blade from a height of 1 foot and come back here and tell us what exactly happened.
I've made my points and I'm through here. Carry on.
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post #38 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 03:43 PM
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Woodnthings... why not just try and make a point and move on without getting silly at the end.
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post #39 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings
http://tablesawaccidents.com/ Pick your statistic. Of the 52,000 "reported accidents 17% were caused by "holing, pulling, or reaching over..." thats 8,840. Or using this chart 13% were caused by "reaching over the blade" which is 6,760. Which ever chart you use, it's too many injuries, and that's not my opinion, it's a fact. How many injuries went "unreported" .... In 50% of the injuries, the blade guard was not on the saw: You guys can do what you want ever in your own shops, but recommending a "potentially" risky procedure on a large forum like this is likely to influence some folks with less than 50 years of experience, .... just sayin' Ya'll get your 5 HP 12" Powermatic reved up and drop a chunk of plywood on the blade from a height of 1 foot and come back here and tell us what exactly happened. I've made my points and I'm through here. Carry on.
Why don't you go drop a chunk of plywood on a 10" 2 hp saw and see want happens. I bet with either saw it will go flying across the room and if you were standing behind it certain body parts are going to be in excruciating pain. What does kickback have to do with reaching over the blade anyway?
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post #40 of 77 Old 02-14-2016, 06:04 PM
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I've tried to make those points...

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Originally Posted by Rebelwork View Post
Woodnthings... why not just try and make a point and move on without getting silly at the end.

It's not getting silly, when you reach over the blade to pickup your workpiece and you lose your grasp... and it can and has happened ... and it falls onto the spinning blade and kicks back. Murphy's Law and the Law of Gravity are now in charge and bad things will happen, and that ain't "silly".

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Why don't you go drop a chunk of plywood on a 10" 2 hp saw and see want happens. I bet with either saw it will go flying across the room and if you were standing behind it certain body parts are going to be in excruciating pain. What does kickback have to do with reaching over the blade anyway?
See the point I made above regarding kickback. There's more than one type, actually four types. The 2 HP saw will also hurt you, heck I've had a 1 HP Craftsman saw kickback and that hurt plenty.

Types of kickback:
1. dropping a workpiece from above on a spinning blade.

2. the workpiece closes behind the blade because there is no splitter or riving knife, pinches the back of the blade and it propelled forward toward the operator.

3. the workpiece loses it contact at the rear of the fence, rotates away, and is picked up by the blade's rotation and is propelled forward toward the operator.

4. The workpiece warps or expands as it's cut apart, makes greater contact with the rotating blade, wedging it between the blade and fence and is propelled toward the operator, a spear type kickback.


The top 3 are preventable using proper procedures and safety devices. No. 4 would be "unexpected", so body location is important, standing to the side of the workpiece being the safe place to stand. I've had all 4 types happen to me and fortunately nothing bad happened. Now, can I go back to the shop? :smile3:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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