Using Green Lumber for a Project..Drying question? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 9Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 12-10-2017, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
IG @zeuscowoodworks
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 20
View DatacomGuy's Photo Album My Photos
Using Green Lumber for a Project..Drying question?

Had a 40 foot Oak tree fall in a storm very recently (within a few weeks).

I'd like to create some coasters out of some 1" thick cut log ends, about 14" in. I just cut them off today. I plan on cutting them in fours as a set.

Given what I want to use them for - do I need to worry about drying these out? Not yet sure if I am going to poly these, or just use tung oil or food bowl oil etc. or leave natural. I'd really like to give as gifts but thats a week away - if they need to be dried than that idea is dead.

Thanks in advance!
DatacomGuy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 12-10-2017, 11:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
The wood will need to be dried before you can use it. You can expect the wood to crack. What you need to do is cut the log long enough to make all the coasters and coat the ends of the wood with wax or anchor seal. You could use gulf wax. Just melt it and dip the ends of the log in it or brush it on. The ends will still crack but once the wood dries you can cut the ends of the logs off and then cut the coasters. Depending on the size of the log it may take a few years to dry.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 12-11-2017, 12:53 AM
Generic Weeb
 
WeebyWoodWorker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Gorgeous Oregon!
Posts: 934
View WeebyWoodWorker's Photo Album My Photos
Waiting for wood to dry can really suck. When I first got into turning I had a smaller cherry tree fall down, I eagerly got hold of a piece and turned a nice little vase out of it the same day. I had it hollowed out and everything, came back in the morning to see the it had split all the way down the middle... That didn't make me happy. As much as it's going to be annoying it's best to wait a few years until it's dry.
WeebyWoodWorker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 12-11-2017, 04:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 304
View Cowboy18's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatacomGuy View Post
Had a 40 foot Oak tree fall in a storm very recently (within a few weeks).

I'd like to create some coasters out of some 1" thick cut log ends, about 14" in. I just cut them off today. I plan on cutting them in fours as a set.

Given what I want to use them for - do I need to worry about drying these out? Not yet sure if I am going to poly these, or just use tung oil or food bowl oil etc. or leave natural. I'd really like to give as gifts but thats a week away - if they need to be dried than that idea is dead.

Thanks in advance!

With wood that green the decision is already made. If you do anything with it, it's going to check most likely. If you
try to put tung oil or poly on it, it's going to bubble the finish.


Look around dry logs the size you're talking about are laying around everywhere.

"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it"


Thomas Jefferson
Cowboy18 is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 12-11-2017, 09:52 AM
Master firewood maker
 
Chris Curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,973
View Chris Curl's Photo Album My Photos
I watch the Woodwright's shop alot. Roy and his guests often use green lumber. It seems like he and the people who come on the show say that if you get it thin enough quickly, then let it dry naturally (not with heat), it is less likely to check.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I am just repeating what I have heard, from a source who seems to be pretty well respected. I have not personally worked much with green wood.
35015 likes this.

... turning perfectly good wood into firewood every day ... :smile3:

Last edited by Chris Curl; 12-11-2017 at 09:55 AM.
Chris Curl is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 12-11-2017, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
IG @zeuscowoodworks
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 20
View DatacomGuy's Photo Album My Photos
Great feedback.. Thanks y'all.

Disappointing.. Looks like i wont be able to do this for Christmas.

How long do y'all recommend I need to equilibrate the wood in the home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy18 View Post

Look around dry logs the size you're talking about are laying around everywhere.
I likely can find some aged stuff on my property - but wouldn't i need to worry about rot and insects?
DatacomGuy is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 12-11-2017, 11:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
It would be very difficult to find usable wood that is dry enough to use and not rotten, spalted or at least eaten up by insects. If you are in a hurry you might try rigging up a dry kiln. It would be a lot simpler and probably cheaper to just buy some kiln dry lumber though.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 12-12-2017, 09:13 AM
Master firewood maker
 
Chris Curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,973
View Chris Curl's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatacomGuy View Post
...
I likely can find some aged stuff on my property - but wouldn't i need to worry about rot and insects?
I have a similar situation. My house backs up on a wooded area, and all the wood that has been out there a while has started to rot.

... turning perfectly good wood into firewood every day ... :smile3:
Chris Curl is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 12-12-2017, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
IG @zeuscowoodworks
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 20
View DatacomGuy's Photo Album My Photos
Dang. Disappointing. But thank you fellas.
DatacomGuy is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 12-12-2017, 11:47 PM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,512
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Hello,

Won't be able to post again for a few days...Hope the following helps a little...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatacomGuy
Had a 40 foot Oak tree fall in a storm very recently (within a few weeks)....I'd like to create some coasters out of some 1" thick cut log ends, about 14" in. I just cut them off today. I plan on cutting them in fours as a set.
"Cookies" can a bit tricky in green woodworking...but more than doable...but not sure you are giving yourself enough time if only a week away. Some can (and will) most likely split, though a thorough soaking in oil can help.

PEG is another option, but I don't like to use it. I have used pure alcohol on coasters before with some really good success. It drives off the water and then they get oiled right away after drying out to the touch. Soaking in Citrus Oil can work also, then the oiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatacomGuy
Given what I want to use them for - do I need to worry about drying these out? Not yet sure if I am going to poly these, or just use tung oil or food bowl oil etc. or leave natural. I'd really like to give as gifts but that's a week away - if they need to be dried than that idea is dead.
Again...no to the drying out...Not necessary, as green woodworking has been around for millenia. Stay away (completely away) from plastic finishes...Nasty stuff, and impossible to refinish well after it is on wood. Laying a green Pine floor tomorrow so your Cookies should be just fine with minor loss due to splitting, though the splits are typically not bad and can add some character.

Another trick is to glue them to plywood with structural adhesive...It works, but not my preference materials wise...

Good Luck!!
35015 is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 12-13-2017, 12:46 AM
Sawing against the Wind
 
Tennessee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: God's beautiful hills of Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,381
View Tennessee Tim's Photo Album My Photos
Jay.....you da man!!!

Glad to see your VOICE again!!!

Cookies are harder to deal with than sized wood due to the direction of drying and shrinkage. A lot has to do with the spacing of growth rings which basically means the wider between the more shrinkage. Think of it this way...each ring has a different length AND amount of movement while drying....let's just throw a %ge out and say it'll move 10% (this is just made up # that is just easy to figure with) .....the outside ring on a 10" dia log would be approx 15" - 10% shrinkage or 1.5" and closer to the center move less as there shorter creating the "wedge" as they dry.....wetter and drier growing seasons effect this greatly also.

Drying logs as a whole........a lot longer and harder to do than dimensional lumber due to the more the depth of moisture to come out and the rings slow this process to some degree as it's a harder layer than the cells.

The ONLY one I'd take advice re working with green wood is Jay......he has the done that, been there ......MANY years ago and this IS how it reacted after AGING this long!!!

I believe in knowing the trade at both ends of the lumber/wood drying spectrum BUT I push more on the correctly dried side due to it has more forgiving characters (less movement) especially going into our comfortable HVAC homes BUT BOTH require correct knowledge in joinery, finishing AND finishes to make the work stay correct for years. As Jay said he's laying "green/fresher cut/not dried" flooring tomorrow, This requires greater knowledge on wood characteristics, movements and finishes. There is also a character style that this produces that NOT all are willing to put the extra, extra, extra time into long term.

Steve...I've had logs sealed on the ends and others not that were 3-4 years cut to log form that were still wet inside when I slabbed them.
35015 likes this.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
........www.TSMFarms.com.......... John 3:16-21 ..........
Reveling God's awesome beauty while creating one of-a-kind flitches and heirlooms.
Tennessee Tim is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tennessee Tim For This Useful Post:
35015 (12-13-2017)
post #12 of 24 Old 12-13-2017, 01:47 AM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,512
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Tim...Your a peach and may the Creator Bless you...See folks in a few days if I can...
35015 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to 35015 For This Useful Post:
Tennessee Tim (12-13-2017)
post #13 of 24 Old 12-13-2017, 02:17 AM
Sawing against the Wind
 
Tennessee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: God's beautiful hills of Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,381
View Tennessee Tim's Photo Album My Photos
Thanks Jay.....LOL....peach???? most would say a persimmon with a prune skin as I get older and more set in my ways.......I guess if they're good ways than I'ma doing GREAT!!!

Just FOOD for thought!!!
35015 likes this.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
........www.TSMFarms.com.......... John 3:16-21 ..........
Reveling God's awesome beauty while creating one of-a-kind flitches and heirlooms.
Tennessee Tim is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 12-13-2017, 02:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 304
View Cowboy18's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Curl View Post
I watch the Woodwright's shop alot. Roy and his guests often use green lumber. It seems like he and the people who come on the show say that if you get it thin enough quickly, then let it dry naturally (not with heat), it is less likely to check.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I am just repeating what I have heard, from a source who seems to be pretty well respected. I have not personally worked much with green wood.

I can't trust working with Green Mesquite wood, it's got to many bugs & worms in it. If I did my customers would find little mounds of sawdust under they're tables and benches. You might get away with thin cookies using some of these other fella's methods, but I would still want to debark them and sand off the sap bark. In any case it seems the experts have more knowledge on these other woods and methods.

"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it"


Thomas Jefferson
Cowboy18 is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 12-21-2017, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
IG @zeuscowoodworks
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 20
View DatacomGuy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay C. White Cloud View Post
"Cookies" can a bit tricky in green woodworking...but more than doable...but not sure you are giving yourself enough time if only a week away. Some can (and will) most likely split, though a thorough soaking in oil can help.

PEG is another option, but I don't like to use it. I have used pure alcohol on coasters before with some really good success. It drives off the water and then they get oiled right away after drying out to the touch. Soaking in Citrus Oil can work also, then the oiling.
THANK YOU! I have 40 foot of tree to play with, so I figure experimenting isn't going to cost me very much.

You mention soaking in oil can help - what type of oil would you soak in, and for how long? What does that process look like? I'm green here (no pun intended).. Soak in what oil, how long, and what do I do with it after I pull it out?

Thanks so much for the help!
DatacomGuy is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 12-22-2017, 03:38 AM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,512
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
I'm going to validate that a forum entry can't begin to properly cover this subject...That takes direct teaching and/or a lot of reading and study...

Type of "soaking oils" are usually for turning project and involve "nondrying oils" at first usually (but not always.) Length of time depends on many factors like size of wood, species, temperature, type of oil, etc...

The general concept is slowing the drying process down as much as possible so that the wood will dry in situ within the project. Of course understanding how the wood moves, grain orientation, species characteristic, application moralities, etc are all part of this as well...

As to Mesquite...It is one of my favorite woods to work with especially for butcher block, cutting boards, and other food prep woodworking projects. For the most part, it too is worked green when I get a chance to get some. Actually (??) probably some of the first wood I ever had a chance to see worked, and "play with," as I spent my very early years growing up in the Cochise Stronghold of the Dragoon Mountains in Southern Arizona...
Cowboy18 likes this.
35015 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to 35015 For This Useful Post:
Cowboy18 (12-22-2017)
post #17 of 24 Old 12-22-2017, 06:12 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 304
View Cowboy18's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay C. White Cloud View Post
As to Mesquite...It is one of my favorite woods to work with especially for butcher block, cutting boards, and other food prep woodworking projects. For the most part, it too is worked green when I get a chance to get some. Actually (??) probably some of the first wood I ever had a chance to see worked, and "play with," as I spent my very early years growing up in the Cochise Stronghold of the Dragoon Mountains in Southern Arizona...

Just goes to show no matter how much you think you know about something, there's always something more to learn.


Thanks for you're input "Jay C. White Cloud", what a cool name! Sounds like a name you would read in an old western novel.:smile3:
35015 likes this.

"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it"


Thomas Jefferson
Cowboy18 is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 12-22-2017, 02:49 PM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,512
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Hey Cowboy18,

Thank you...I have always thought names to be very important and should remind us of the history we come from...As to "old west" I will have to admit that the area around the Dragoons past Tombstone and Bisbee all the way over to Ramsey Canyon and up into the Huachuca Mountain range is still one of my favorite places on the planet...Perhaps someday I shall return there for good...When I'm really old...ha,ha..

As to learning I could not agree more!

I make it a point to try and learn something new every day...at least one thing, and I always shoot for more. I think that it's why I have loved the challenges of traditional folk style woodworking (which was mainly done green) it never fails to challenge and push understanding wood more intimately than what we have come to call woodworking (aka wood machining) today...
Cowboy18 likes this.
35015 is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 12-22-2017, 04:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Brian T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: McBride, BC
Posts: 2,648
View Brian T.'s Photo Album My Photos
For wood carvers, we plan on 1" thickness per year drying down to an Equilibrium Moisture Content of 12-14% outdoors and under cover, not cooked in a shed. Even carpenters glue will seal the ends. Does not prevent some cracking at all.

Or, go looking for some bare #8 copper wire, that's almost 1/8" diameter.
Cut some coasters for the experiment. Let them dry, see how much they crack.
Pretend you didn't care. File/rasp/cut a groove all around in the edge of the disk.

Now, either round or roughly hammered flat, put a ring-band of the copper wire around each coaster.
Like it is supposed to hold the whole thing together as a decorative belt.
Bevelled overlapping ends and a touch of plumber's solder and you're done.
Cowboy18 likes this.
Brian T. is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 12-23-2017, 01:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 304
View Cowboy18's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay C. White Cloud View Post
Hey Cowboy18,

Thank you...I have always thought names to be very important and should remind us of the history we come from...As to "old west" I will have to admit that the area around the Dragoons past Tombstone and Bisbee all the way over to Ramsey Canyon and up into the Huachuca Mountain range is still one of my favorite places on the planet...Perhaps someday I shall return there for good...When I'm really old...ha,ha..

As to learning I could not agree more!

I make it a point to try and learn something new every day...at least one thing, and I always shoot for more. I think that it's why I have loved the challenges of traditional folk style woodworking (which was mainly done green) it never fails to challenge and push understanding wood more intimately than what we have come to call woodworking (aka wood machining) today...

Indeed Jay C. White Cloud, a man that has respect for his name is far less likely to shame himself or his family. My family name is Harrison, we hail from the "Southern Harris Forest, on the island of Lewis, off the Northwestern Coast of Scotland". I took my son there, and we camped in the Highlands when he was 10. It was a time neither of us will ever forget. Our island is known for it's fine 40 year old Scotch and Harris Tweed, as well as the Best Bagpipers in the World. Here is a picture of the land of my ancestors.


I would love to see a picture of the place you spoke of, if you have one.


PS: Cowboy18 was my call sign in Somalia and Rwanda during UNSOM I & UNSOM II and UNMIR, just another war no one remembers anymore.
Attached Images
 
35015 likes this.

"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it"


Thomas Jefferson
Cowboy18 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about milling my own lumber Jassper Forestry & Milling 22 04-08-2018 07:36 AM
End grain seal for air drying lumber wickedsolo Forestry & Milling 7 07-04-2017 10:56 AM
Lumber Question seanashford General Woodworking Discussion 9 01-30-2017 08:52 PM
Wood Drying Question Tech0507 General Woodworking Discussion 3 10-17-2016 11:39 PM
Drying green turnings buckflat6 Woodturning 4 01-18-2016 10:06 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome