Is there a specific type of craftsman that could build a speaker enclosure? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 11Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 50 Old 08-27-2018, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
View Chucksrt's Photo Album My Photos
Is there a specific type of craftsman that could build a speaker enclosure?

I have been building my home theater for some time now and I came across some serious subwoofer builds that are insane. I have a pair of 18" stereo Integrity subwoofers that I was having enclosures built for but a guy I know who is a cabinet maker kinda made a lot of mistakes and really didn't understand the importance of making sure they were solid and or also done properly! I spent two years waiting on him and jumping hurdles. Now I am just ready to scrap these enclosures and get them done by someone who understands how a subwoofer enclosure is ment to be built. I live just north of Philadelphia in Pa, and I wanted to know if there is a certain type of woodworking craftsman I should be looking for and if there was someone in or around my area that I could trust? I have spent a ton of time and money and now I just need to sweep it behind me and move forward. I was half tempted to try to build this with another friend who is very handy with woodworking but now I am just scared to waste more time. Any info is greatly appreciated! Chuck
Chucksrt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 08-27-2018, 09:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 834
View Terry Q's Photo Album My Photos
Do you have a sketch of what you are trying to do? Seems like any cabinet builder should be able to build a box unless there are specific design features that would present a challenge.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.
Terry Q is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 08-27-2018, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
View Chucksrt's Photo Album My Photos
I am not sure if I can post pics here yet or attach links but here it is. It's the 3rd reply, has a pic and a cut sheet. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ure-specs.html
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	uqugepa3.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	35.0 KB
ID:	365530  


Last edited by Steve Neul; 08-27-2018 at 11:46 PM. Reason: add picture
Chucksrt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 50 Old 08-27-2018, 11:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,041
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
What do you want the end product to look like. It's just a simple box itself but the finished look may be more work. Do you plan to paint it or cover it with leather or laminate? This would define the construction. MDF is awful heavy. Do you really want the speakers difficult to carry around? If they will rarely be moved then it may be alright.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 01:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 365
View sunnybob's Photo Album My Photos
Sub woofers need to be heavy, or theyll bounce themselves around the room.

Ply would not be good. High density fibreboard would be better than mdf.

SunnyBob
my projects can be viewed here
http://www.pbase.com/john_cooper/bob...dwork_projects
sunnybob is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
View Chucksrt's Photo Album My Photos
Once they are in place they will stay there so I am not worried about weight. I just planned to paint them black, no crazy roundovers or anything. Just a box with the specified port and a hole th mount the subwoofer and a cutout to mount the speaker wire terminal plate on the back. I attached a pic of what I have already. I would take the same thing just done right.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150618_141020361_HDR1_1535434865858.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	514.9 KB
ID:	365532  

Chucksrt is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 03:11 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,564
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
I made my own for some EV 18" woofers

Years ago I made some enclosures for my Electrovoice 18" subs and they look very similar to what you show. The ports are across the front at the bottom and the rest is sealed. I haven't used them for years, but they would rattle the entire house when turned up and the house is on a 5" concrete slab.

I don't know what you mean by having them done right. It's all about the dimensions of the port and even that was not super critical. I think they were called "ducted ports", but it was a long time ago.
Here's what I found online:
http://www.electroziq.org/docs/Desig...Enclosures.pdf

https://www.mtx.com/library-vented-s...fer-enclosures

http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com...0lenth%201.htm

I don't know if starting over is necessary. The construction methods I used were 3/4" particle board and lots of glue. I covered them with a satin black laminate. I also made a set of 15" EV midrange enclosures which were the same foot print and they stacked on the 18's with rubber isolation pads under them. On top of each stack were 3 hypersonic University T-50 tweeters. I used 6 AMPs to drive them all, 4 - 100 watt and a dual channel 200 watt, mild by today's standards, but way powerful enough to drive bass reflex speakers at that time. Tweeters don't take that much power.

Today's, well yesterday's "powered" subs with built in AMPs work very well and Radio Shack made some great ones for the price. I have about 4 of them around the house and in the shop. I found a single 100 watt AMP worked just fine with the small die cast remotes for the midrange, hung on the walls or placed on furniture and took up much less space that the ducted port enclosures, which was critical in the shop. Bass notes are non-directional of course.
Kinda like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Optimus-Pro...QAAOSwBSxbEFbJ

and these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shack...EAAOSwkXlbfuR2

Now with my hearing loss of high frequencies, I can't appreciate the beautiful sounds of days past. Getting old means getting wiser, but losing other capabilities, not such a great trade off in my opinion. I'd rather be a little more stupid and still hear well. DUH.

To answer your question, try out the enclosures you have before starting over. I think you will find them satisfactory, unless the wood joints fly apart. You can always install glue blocks on the inside corners where the joints meet IF they are not already there, assuming the back is removable OR if you can access them from the opening in the front. They can't harm anything and will increase the structure immensely.

I don't know where you got your plans but I recall using some from Electro Voice for mine. Maybe from a source listed here:
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...=sb-top&fr=sfp

BEWARE of the link Best 76 Plans, it's a spammer named Ted's plans. DO NOT Click that link!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 08-28-2018 at 03:30 AM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 06:23 AM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,917
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnybob View Post
Sub woofers need to be heavy, or theyll bounce themselves around the room.

Ply would not be good. High density fibreboard would be better than mdf.
It's all about the design.

My powered JBL 18" subs are made from ply and weigh only 72lbs. They don't move a single bit, they will however move other things... :)

OP, what exactly is wrong with those cabinets? The pic you posted looks very similar to the design you posted.
shoot summ is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 06:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,468
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
The design of audio speakers is highly technical. It must allow for factors such as the frequency for which it is designed will dictate the size and location of the ports. The design will call for materials which will not result in undesired reverberations.


The construction of a speaker is just plain old good woodworking practice. Nothing special.



George
GeorgeC is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 08:52 AM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,917
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
I think the OP already understands that the design for the specific speaker is crucial.

This forum has good info:

https://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/

One of this forums members also builds custom audio systems, @Marv might chime in.

The OPS picture wont enlarge for me, but I'm trying to understand what is wrong with the build?
shoot summ is offline  
post #11 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
View Chucksrt's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Years ago I made some enclosures for my Electrovoice 18" subs and they look very similar to what you show. The ports are across the front at the bottom and the rest is sealed. I haven't used them for years, but they would rattle the entire house when turned up and the house is on a 5" concrete slab.

I don't know what you mean by having them done right. It's all about the dimensions of the port and even that was not super critical. I think they were called "ducted ports", but it was a long time ago.
Here's what I found online:
http://www.electroziq.org/docs/Desig...Enclosures.pdf

https://www.mtx.com/library-vented-s...fer-enclosures

http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com...0lenth%201.htm

I don't know if starting over is necessary. The construction methods I used were 3/4" particle board and lots of glue. I covered them with a satin black laminate. I also made a set of 15" EV midrange enclosures which were the same foot print and they stacked on the 18's with rubber isolation pads under them. On top of each stack were 3 hypersonic University T-50 tweeters. I used 6 AMPs to drive them all, 4 - 100 watt and a dual channel 200 watt, mild by today's standards, but way powerful enough to drive bass reflex speakers at that time. Tweeters don't take that much power.

Today's, well yesterday's "powered" subs with built in AMPs work very well and Radio Shack made some great ones for the price. I have about 4 of them around the house and in the shop. I found a single 100 watt AMP worked just fine with the small die cast remotes for the midrange, hung on the walls or placed on furniture and took up much less space that the ducted port enclosures, which was critical in the shop. Bass notes are non-directional of course.
Kinda like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Optimus-Pro...QAAOSwBSxbEFbJ

and these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shack...EAAOSwkXlbfuR2

Now with my hearing loss of high frequencies, I can't appreciate the beautiful sounds of days past. Getting old means getting wiser, but losing other capabilities, not such a great trade off in my opinion. I'd rather be a little more stupid and still hear well. DUH. <img src="http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/WoodworkingTalk_2016/smilies/tango_face_plain.png" border="0" alt="" title="Serious" class="inlineimg" />

To answer your question, try out the enclosures you have before starting over. I think you will find them satisfactory, unless the wood joints fly apart. You can always install glue blocks on the inside corners where the joints meet IF they are not already there, assuming the back is removable OR if you can access them from the opening in the front. They can't harm anything and will increase the structure immensely.

I don't know where you got your plans but I recall using some from Electro Voice for mine. Maybe from a source listed here:
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...=sb-top&fr=sfp

BEWARE of the link Best 76 Plans, it's a spammer named Ted's plans. DO NOT Click that link!
One of the issues is that when he bonded the MDF sheets together he used pl and applied it as if it was flooring. Just from reading up on this build I knew that others would brush titebond or something like pl to cover the entire surface of the panels that were being joined. You can tell he did not do that and I think the enclosure is boomy and not solid when you wrap on it. Being 1.5" thick it sounds hollow.
I researched full marty builds for quite some time and found the plans there.
I am sure that I may not notice any issues but knowing that there are issues is in my head! If for no other reason than the port braces... the two front braces are installed as they should be but the rear brace is dead center of the center port. That can change the desired frequency response or create port noise. I may be splitting hairs and that was partly why I just wanted to go to a pro.
Chucksrt is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
View Chucksrt's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnybob View Post
Sub woofers need to be heavy, or theyll bounce themselves around the room.

Ply would not be good. High density fibreboard would be better than mdf.
It's all about the design.

My powered JBL 18" subs are made from ply and weigh only 72lbs. They don't move a single bit, they will however move other things... &#x1f642;

OP, what exactly is wrong with those cabinets? The pic you posted looks very similar to the design you posted.
Look at my response above to another member. That states most of my concerns about it.
Chucksrt is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 09:26 AM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,917
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucksrt View Post
I have been building my home theater for some time now and I came across some serious subwoofer builds that are insane. I have a pair of 18" stereo Integrity subwoofers that I was having enclosures built for but a guy I know who is a cabinet maker kinda made a lot of mistakes and really didn't understand the importance of making sure they were solid and or also done properly! I spent two years waiting on him and jumping hurdles. Now I am just ready to scrap these enclosures and get them done by someone who understands how a subwoofer enclosure is ment to be built. I live just north of Philadelphia in Pa, and I wanted to know if there is a certain type of woodworking craftsman I should be looking for and if there was someone in or around my area that I could trust? I have spent a ton of time and money and now I just need to sweep it behind me and move forward. I was half tempted to try to build this with another friend who is very handy with woodworking but now I am just scared to waste more time. Any info is greatly appreciated! Chuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucksrt View Post
Once they are in place they will stay there so I am not worried about weight. I just planned to paint them black, no crazy roundovers or anything. Just a box with the specified port and a hole th mount the subwoofer and a cutout to mount the speaker wire terminal plate on the back. I attached a pic of what I have already. I would take the same thing just done right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucksrt View Post
Look at my response above to another member. That states most of my concerns about it.
Well, we are trying to help, and I don't see any clear definition of the issue in any of your posts, other than what I highlighted above. Looks to me like the guy built what you asked him to build from the picture and cutlist.

At this point I will back out of this one, you seem to want help, but not want to invest time to explain what you need.

Good luck to you, some of these other kind souls will likely help you.
shoot summ is offline  
post #14 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 9
View Chucksrt's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucksrt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnybob View Post
Sub woofers need to be heavy, or theyll bounce themselves around the room.

Ply would not be good. High density fibreboard would be better than mdf.
It's all about the design.

My powered JBL 18" subs are made from ply and weigh only 72lbs. They don't move a single bit, they will however move other things... &#x1f642;

OP, what exactly is wrong with those cabinets? The pic you posted looks very similar to the design you posted.
Look at my response above to another member. That states most of my concerns about it.
Weird! I did respond to another member but my reply is not there?

The MDF sheets were pl glued as if it was flooring, not spread out to cover the entire surface then clamped. It sounds hollow. Being that it is 1.5" thick it should sound more solid and I am sure it is because of the way he glued them. Also the front port braces are good but the rear brace is centered directly in the middle of the center port. This could affect the frequency response or create port noise. He also didn't put the rear sheet on until after and he never sanded it it match the rest of the enclosures.
Chucksrt is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 10:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,007
View Tool Agnostic's Photo Album My Photos
Someone reasonably skilled in woodworking should be able to build this subwoofer without a lot of issues. Perhaps @Chucksrt can tell us more about what is unacceptable with the pictured box.

Quality audiophile speakers can be complex designs. They radiate sound in multiple ways. The driver moves in two directions, and it pushes the air behind itself, too, which is why port design is important. (Note: Some speakers are sealed, and some have ports.) The phase relationships between the driver(s) and the port(s) at different frequencies is crucial. All of those considerations take place before you look at speaker placement in the listening room, which is an art in itself. Your speaker may also have active or passive circuits, such as a crossover, low pass filter, amplifier, etc. Obviously those circuits have an effect on the sound, too.

The materials and construction methods affect the sound, not just the physical design of the box and selection of drivers. The box itself is a sound radiator, too. A speaker with a plywood box will have a different sound compared with an MDF box.

I have a large heavy subwoofer made by one of the best speaker design firms that ever existed. It is sealed (no ports), and is constructed of veneer on particle board.
Tool Agnostic is offline  
post #16 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 10:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
Iím wondering why you havenít gone to a major store and purchased ready-made speakers that would be ready to go and probably cost less than having custom speakers made by a woodworker?

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #17 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 10:59 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,564
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Like I said, try them out first!

They may sound "hollow" if you bang on them, but a hollow box will probably sound a bit hollow right off. If you mount the speaker in the enclosure and bang on them what happens? Not that it matters all that much, but what does matter is how they perform, not how they look or sound from thumping on them.
You may have some trouble determining audio performance other than by your own ears. Audio decibel meters and sensitivity are all to difficult to measure for the average guy. Just hook 'em up and turn up the volume on a known source and see what they sound like. If there is a resonance at a certain frequency that would be annoying. Make certain they are lined with foam or other insulation to avoid certain resonances.

If the front panel is glued up from 2 separate 3/4" pieces it wouldn't require a huge amount of glue to make a secure joint. If there is any doubt, run some 1 1/4" drywall screws in from the front and that will assure the pieces won't vibrate. If there made with "shoddy" construction techniques, then who is responsible?
After spending large amounts of time and money on these, give them a chance before investing any more time or money.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #18 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 11:30 AM
Smart and Cool
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,917
View shoot summ's Photo Album My Photos
If you guys follow the link he posted, the design is the product of a modeling type of tool/software. So some consideration has been given to the cabinet design, and it's expected performance.

Still many other factors including the driver, and as Bill mentioned padding, insulation, or fill.

And my JBL subs sound "hollow" when you knock on the cabinet, they are actually made from 3/4" baltic birch.

Last edited by shoot summ; 08-28-2018 at 11:33 AM.
shoot summ is offline  
post #19 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 12:10 PM
1948
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 510
View Packard's Photo Album My Photos
We have a next door neighbor that produces speakers. They design and build the enclosures and buy the speakers themselves.

The enclosures are made from (it looks like) MDF. The size and shape of the box controls the sound.

Here are some designs: http://www.eighteensound.com/Enclosure-Design
Packard is offline  
post #20 of 50 Old 08-28-2018, 12:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 2,992
View TimPa's Photo Album My Photos
OP you are obviously finding many responses to you post. as mentioned, from a woodworking stand point, a good cabinet maker should have no problem following a drawing, or specifications, to build your enclosure.


to be fair, you may want to go back to your friend, mention your concerns, and ask if he can make the corrections. glue blocks, and attention to detail may resolve your problem.
TimPa is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speaker Stand Build Question TrevortdogR Design & Plans 17 03-18-2019 08:26 PM
Speaker stand build TrevortdogR Project Showcase 24 04-10-2016 11:24 AM
Speaker Stand Build TrevortdogR Design & Plans 14 02-01-2016 09:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome