Table saw blade pushing stock upwards? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Table saw blade pushing stock upwards?

I am using a portable TS, which is equipped with a 15 amp motor (doesn't tell us real power) and a Diablo 60 tooth crosscut blade.

During rip cuts of plywood or strips of poplar, with wood gets lifted up on the blade requiring two hands or push sticks. I have read that this is a symptom of blade or fence alignment. But everything is in order and squared up. I always use the riving knife as well.

I'm wondering if it's the fact that I'm ripping with a 60 tooth crosscut blade?. This is my only blade. I should have gotten a combo blade in hindsight.
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 02:27 PM
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Are you sure that you have the blade installed in the correct direction of rotation?

Why do you think a 15 amp motor is really not 15 amp?

George
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post #3 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 02:54 PM
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I only get that with a dull blade.
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plankwalker View Post
I am using a portable TS, which is equipped with a 15 amp motor (doesn't tell us real power) and a Diablo 60 tooth crosscut blade.
........

I'm wondering if it's the fact that I'm ripping with a 60 tooth crosscut blade?. This is my only blade. I should have gotten a combo blade in hindsight.

You got it right.
The 60 tooth is not meant to rip hardwoods or even softwoods. A 50 tooth combo or 40 tooth general purpose blade will suit more circumstances than the 60 tooth which is more of a crossscut blade. Thankfully, they are both around $30.00 or less.

Another tip is to expose more blade when ripping which will increase the angle of attack of the teeth and press the work downward better. Physics comes into play here. A shallow angle requires more feed pressure and a steeper angle makes a more efficient cut.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #5 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 03:01 PM
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I would try a different blade, either a combination or a proper ripping blade.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
― Marcus Aurelius
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 03:41 PM
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I agree with woodnthings that you need to raise the blade more - cutting downward into the wood because of the (tooth to wood) angle of approach.

While a lower tooth rip blade is sensible, I've used an 80 tooth finishing blade and not had excess lift, so I think it's more setup/technique vs blade. My opinion based on my experience...
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post #7 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 04:57 PM
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You may find you'll get some burning when ripping with a cross cut blade. More so with harder woods. A good blade meant for ripping should cut like butter.

They make different blades for different applications for a reason. It's definately possible to rip with a finer tooth blade, but the cut's so much nicer with the right blade.
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-06-2016, 09:07 PM
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Get yourself another blade for ripping. My ripping blade is only 30 teeth, combo blade is 48, chop saw blade is 80, all Forrest.
BTW, just got my chopmaster blade resharpen end for the first time. It needed it,. Sent it back to Forrest Mfg, a week later I had it back, looking like new. New blade is $160, resharpen and test cut $30 + $8 to ship.
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 07:26 AM
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make sure you don't have a negative tooth rake blade, meant for miter saws.
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 07:33 AM
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The blade is the probably the problem but if it still does it with the right blade the fence being out of alignment with the blade could also cause that problem. If it's closer to the blade toward the back side of the blade it can pinch the blade and since the blade is turning upward on the back side it can lift the wood.
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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This is the blade I am using:

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10-i...060X/100033809

I will try raising the blade height. That makes sense. I have been setting at 1/4 inch higher than the material.

The reason I bought this blade over the 50 tooth combo blade was because I was going to be cutting high quality Baltic Birch Ply and some Melamine and not planning to rip hard woods anytime soon, and secondly, reviews stated that this would be a decent all around TS blade. I know they make plywood blades but I didn't want to be limited.

The blade has very little use and still sharp. I have checked my fence and blade alignment many times so I don't think it's that.

Current draw of a motor is an indication of power, but it's not the benchmark. That's what I meant. it's how that amperage is put to use and not wasted.
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 01:54 PM
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Just so's you know ....

You "can" get by with one blade, BUT it had better be a combination, not a 60 tooth. Some woodworkwers I know do use the 60 tooth for a whole lot of cuts, but in the long run, you should have more than one and prefferably the 3 I mentioned. ..... rip, general purpose or combination, and crosscut. You have more than one hammer, right? ... more than one screwdriver or wrench ... there's a reason.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 03:38 PM
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For a long time, I thought that a higher tooth blade would always be better, even for rips.

Now I use this Forrest 20T blade for everything I cut on the tablesaw - including a lot of BB plywood. No problems with tearout or bad cuts.

I generally crosscut on my Miter Saw, though, with a much higher tooth blade finish blade.
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post #14 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plankwalker View Post
This is the blade I am using:

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10-i...060X/100033809

I will try raising the blade height. That makes sense. I have been setting at 1/4 inch higher than the material.

The reason I bought this blade over the 50 tooth combo blade was because I was going to be cutting high quality Baltic Birch Ply and some Melamine and not planning to rip hard woods anytime soon, and secondly, reviews stated that this would be a decent all around TS blade. I know they make plywood blades but I didn't want to be limited.

The blade has very little use and still sharp. I have checked my fence and blade alignment many times so I don't think it's that.

Current draw of a motor is an indication of power, but it's not the benchmark. That's what I meant. it's how that amperage is put to use and not wasted.
One thing to consider, if you are not using a guard on your table saw you are creating more of a danger raising the blade. You shouldn't have a problem with the blade 1/4" more than the wood thickness.
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 11:30 PM
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That all depends ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
One thing to consider, if you are not using a guard on your table saw you are creating more of a danger raising the blade. You shouldn't have a problem with the blade 1/4" more than the wood thickness.
A lower blade does expose less blade, BUT it may require greater feed pressure because it's not cutting as efficiently. More feed pressure may result in a slip and an injury. Myself, I use a compromise between too low and full height. If you do run your hands or fingers into the spinning blade it will still "hurt" no matter what the height is....

A discussion of blade height here and I can't believe I'm using cabinetman's reply for the second time today.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/ta...-height-50252/

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-07-2016 at 11:34 PM.
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post #16 of 27 Old 01-07-2016, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
A lower blade does expose less blade, BUT it may require greater feed pressure because it's not cutting as efficiently. More feed pressure may result in a slip and an injury. Myself, I use a compromise between too low and full height. If you do run your hands or fingers into the spinning blade it will still "hurt" no matter what the height is....

A discussion of blade height here and I can't believe I'm using cabinetman's reply for the second time today.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/ta...-height-50252/
Perhaps people should also read #16 by Richard in that same thread.

With the proper blade there should be no need to be applying any great deal of feed pressure thereby eliminating a dangerous situation.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-08-2016, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
A lower blade does expose less blade, BUT it may require greater feed pressure because it's not cutting as efficiently. More feed pressure may result in a slip and an injury. Myself, I use a compromise between too low and full height. If you do run your hands or fingers into the spinning blade it will still "hurt" no matter what the height is....

A discussion of blade height here and I can't believe I'm using cabinetman's reply for the second time today.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/ta...-height-50252/
That's too much thread to read, especially against the grain. Myself personally with the right blade I don't see any difference in pressure with blade height. I just think of my brother-in-law when he was a newbie. He went to work for a louver company and within two weeks they had him on a table saw where he split his hand in two down the middle up to his wrist with a blade up high.
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-08-2016, 01:20 AM
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You can set blade height according to your needs and keeping safety in mind as well, however 1/4" does not sound quite high enough.
This less than minimal setting will without a doubt cause more lift.
Any blade should be set with gullets fully exposed or a smidge above work piece thickness to prevent overheating from sawdust clogging in gullets and dust discharge inefficiency.
My favorite blade for ripping is a thin kerf 24 tooth.
It cuts hardwood like butter faster because you are cutting less wood.
Also saves on waste over time due to narrower kerf.
Call me crazy but i like cutting with blade up high using long push-stick for safety.
This way you are cutting less wood thickness with the least teeth in contact and least friction.

Last edited by bzguy; 01-08-2016 at 01:46 AM.
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-08-2016, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzguy View Post
You can set blade height according to your needs and keeping safety in mind as well, however 1/4" does not sound quite high enough.
This less than minimal setting will without a doubt cause more lift.
Any blade should be set with gullets fully exposed or a smidge above work piece thickness to prevent overheating from sawdust clogging in gullets and dust discharge inefficiency.
My favorite blade for ripping is a thin kerf 24 tooth.
It cuts hardwood like butter faster because you are cutting less wood.
Also saves on waste over time due to narrower kerf.
Call me crazy but i like cutting with blade up high using long push-stick for safety.
This way you are cutting less wood thickness with the least teeth in contact and least friction.
This is the correct way to do it. Having the gullets up clears the dust. I don't like having the blade too high, but sometimes you have to do it.

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post #20 of 27 Old 01-08-2016, 07:23 AM
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that photo exemplifies everything that is ....

Wrong! That is an accident waiting to happen in my opinion. It would be much better to use a bandsaw. Hopefully the chalice is made of plastic, not aluminum.
Any deviation from a straight in feed will result in a kickback. Round objects on a flat surface will roll ....duh. There is no support under the front of the cup and nothing obvious to prevent it from rolling, unless it's attached to the wide board behind it. A good example of a bad example. Even a hand held circular saw would make more sense.

I hope their workman's comp is fully up to date.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-08-2016 at 07:27 AM.
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