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post #1 of 37 Old 01-28-2013, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Table Saw Adjustment

Grizzly contractor's saw - Have spent 4 hours trying to get the blade parallel with the miter slots. No luck. Have loosened every trunnion bolt and tried every combination of everything. Bottom line is that I've maxed out the play and still need 1/16th to be perfect. There must be something I can do. It's been perfect for 3 years. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
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post #2 of 37 Old 01-28-2013, 08:46 PM
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It's been perfect for 3 years and now it's so far off that it can't be aligned properly? What caused you to know it needed alignment? Did something happen that threw it off? It sounds like something may be bent, not allowing it to be aligned. Does it get better, worse or stay the same as you move the blade up, down or change the bevel? If the alignment changes when you adjust the height and/or bevel, then something is definitely bent in the support structure.
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post #3 of 37 Old 01-28-2013, 08:53 PM
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It was perfect?

What made you decide to mess with it?

Regardless, that was then, this is now.
You have to establish which way the front or rear must move to be parallel. Let's say the rear need to move to the right. It want to pivot about the front right bolt. If there's not enough room in the trunnion at the rear to install the bolt then, the front has to move left. Imagine the center of the arbor as the pivot point and rotate it around that center, if that helps you visualize what has to happen.

What puzzles me is that it was ":perfect" at one time, maybe not...I donno?

If there not enough room to install the bolt then you will have to enlarge the holes with a rat tail file.... probably 3/8" dia.
This is difficult because you have to work underneath laying down looking up to get to the bolts. I've use a ratchet with a 12" extension. The best answer is to have a young flexible helper underneath, while you check the measurement on the top. Lay a 24" long straight edge along the blade to measure to the slot it will give a better reading than just using the blade. Use a strong magnet to hold the straight edge to the blade. You can use a tri-square to measure and to set the dimension the same at the very front and rear of the saw.

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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-28-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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post #4 of 37 Old 01-28-2013, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Table Saw Adjustment

I actually have the trunnion bracket in my hand. I tipped the saw upside down so I could really look over the problem and again, I've really tried everything. My last effort is to elongate the bolt holes so I can shift it 1/16th further. It has been perfect,but lately I,ve noticed that as the wood feeds through the blade, it gets cut deeper as it exits the blade. Hence my idea to adjust the trunnions. It sure seems as though I,m missing something and Grizzly wasn't much help
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post #5 of 37 Old 01-28-2013, 09:46 PM
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Did you do an actual fore and aft measurement of the blade to a miter slot before you started all of this? I'd hate to go through what you've been through and find out the fence had bumped out of alignment.
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post #6 of 37 Old 01-28-2013, 10:00 PM
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tip it on it's rear or backside

Quote:
Originally Posted by pebble41 View Post
I actually have the trunnion bracket in my hand. I tipped the saw upside down so I could really look over the problem and again, I've really tried everything. My last effort is to elongate the bolt holes so I can shift it 1/16th further. It has been perfect,but lately I,ve noticed that as the wood feeds through the blade, it gets cut deeper as it exits the blade. Hence my idea to adjust the trunnions. It sure seems as though I,m missing something and Grizzly wasn't much help
On the back side you can reach the bolts on the bottom and make the measurements on the top .

How the blade changes it's height is a puzzle. The height adjustment is usually an Acme threaded rod and will not "cut deeper" or change height. Are you saying it cuts a taper in width? That would mean not only is the fence shifting, but it's potentially very dangerous. Hope that's not the case. But that makes the height issue more of a mystery. Maybe you can clarify what you mean?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-29-2013 at 05:51 AM. Reason: reworded for clarification
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post #7 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 05:25 AM Thread Starter
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I have done the fore and aft measurement - turning the blade for consistency. I've taken the measurement from both slots, using three types of saw blades-including a brand new one. There's no question that the rear of the blade needs to go to the left by 1/16th. You can see it just looking at it. I've lowered the blade, turned it to 45, raised it back up, etc,etc. I swear I've tried every combination possible,but it's still off. I purchased a book by John White on adjusting shop machines. Great book, but I'm doing everything he recommends. Really appreciate everyone's advice so far.
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post #8 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings

On the back side you can reach the bolts on the bottom and make the measurements on the top .

How the blade changes it's height is a puzzle. The height adjustment is usually an Acme threaded rod and will not "cut deeper" or change height. You are not saying it cut ataper in width...are you. That would mean not only is the fence shifting, but it's potentially very dangerous. Hope that's not the case. But that's make the height issue more of a mystery. Maybe you can clarify what you mean?
I didn't say anything relative to the height partner There's no problem with that. It's just side to side.
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post #9 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 05:57 AM
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cuts "deeper" means depth of cut to me

OK, it's not cutting deeper then.
It's cutting wider at the rear than the front?
That's what I was getting at by saying the fence is shifting, a dangerous situation.
OR the fence is just not parallel to the blade, but not moving during the cut, also a dangerous condition.
How about a picture or sketch of what you are getting?

You may have to file out one or more of the holes a bit to get the arbor carriage to move enough. make certain the trunnions are snugged up to the carriage. If they aren't, it will throw everything off. The carriage may just slide on the rear trunnion, but it should have a locking bolt on the front trunnion. Make certain the locking bolt is snug.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-29-2013 at 06:04 AM.
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post #10 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pebble41 View Post
Grizzly contractor's saw - Have spent 4 hours trying to get the blade parallel with the miter slots. No luck. Have loosened every trunnion bolt and tried every combination of everything. Bottom line is that I've maxed out the play and still need 1/16th to be perfect. There must be something I can do. It's been perfect for 3 years. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
You haven't addressed why after three years, all of a sudden the saw is out of alignment. If it can change that easily, it should be fixable easily. IOW, why would you have to remove anything, since all those parts were in spec for all that time.






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post #11 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 07:37 AM
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Ugggh.... I really feel for you. I had a Delta table saw that I periodically checked the alignment on. And, 1 day low and behold, the alignment and was way off, much like you described. I wrestled with that machine for over a solid month. Nothing worked, and I refused to re-drill, thinking that if something was truly bent it would just mask the real issue and create a bigger hazard. After all, a bad accident on the saw was what I was trying to prevent. In the end, the saw won and I gave it back to Delta for them to figure out for their own product research. The only thing I could figure is that on day something bound up a little bit, and in the process of cranking on the assembly, I bent something. My new saw was a Craftsman zipcode saw. I shunned them at first, but when I looked further I understood the benefits of cabinet mounted trunions. I have adjusted my saw once at setup....took literally 15 minutes and had a perfect .003 from front to back...it was heaven. Sorry for your misery....truly I understand.
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post #12 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pebble41 View Post
I,ve noticed that as the wood feeds through the blade, it gets cut deeper as it exits the blade.
I can tell you one thing partner, woodthings is a hellofah lot more tolerant than I would have been.
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post #13 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 07:42 AM
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I guess my long winded point was...consider your safety above all else. That saw came out of alignment for a reason. Something changed. Is it REALLY worth a finger to continue to use it?? Not to mention all the frustration and poor cuts. Be careful. That's all. Best of luck.
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post #14 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 07:46 AM
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I wonder if there had been a washer in there, maybe something not made of metal, that failed and fell out, but you never noticed it (got sucked up by the DC?)? Is there any play at the fixed end of the adjustment rod? Is the frame that the adjustment rod goes into (on the table side, not the blade side) bent?

Quite the puzzle you've got there.
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post #15 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 08:59 AM
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I don't know how Grizzly contractor saws are made but they might be similar to others. The motor hangs off the back and it's weight lays against the drive belt. As time passes this can cause the rear bolts where the yoke attaches to the saw to slip. It may have been happening to you a little at a time until it became apparent in your cuts.

There are other parts of the trunion assembly that can also work loose or out of play. You may have heard about PALS which are an addition to the rear yoke attachment with a locking adjustment screw. Normally, loosening these rear yoke bolts allow the trunion assembly to move slightly and this is usually enough to get the blade aligned with the miter ways. Often one of the front mounting bolts where the trunion assembly attaches to the table top also needs to be loosened. Loosening all 4 bolts allows the entire assembly to move all around.

I would tighten one of the front bolts and try to get the blade aligned with that one bolt tight. Be careful not to over tighten or you may strip the threads in the cast iron. The holes in the rear yoke should already be elongated to allow adjustment. You may already know all of this but I'm just putting out there.

Here is a picture of the rear yoke on a Rockwell contractor saw, without PALS. You slightly loosen these bolts so they still have some grip and tap the yoke either direction. Disconnect the drive belt while doing this. If the saw was in alignment before you should be able to get it back without elongating any holes. While you have things apart, check all nuts and bolts, clean out any saw dust which can get compressed in the elongated holes and prevent full movement. You can elongate the yoke holes with a file but if you had the saw aligned before, it's questionable why you would have to, still, no harm. Washers can also cut into the casting and not allow full movement. You can clean up gauling with a file. If this doesn't work, you may have some other problems with the trunion.
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post #16 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 09:18 AM
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Uhmmm...Is it that the rear of the blade needs to go to the left 1/16" OR the Front of the blade needs to go 1/16" to the right??


Also, If I remember correctly the Table on this saw can be adjusted as well.

What Model# do you have? It would help to troubleshoot. I wouldn't be grinding and drilling just yet. Factory settings should be ample to make the adjustments you need without altering anything. Slow down and Think it all through.

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post #17 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 09:40 AM
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Btw, I did have a Delta repair tech come out to my shop. His thought was the rods were bent too. So, we changed them out, which is by no means easy. Then, we re-aligned the saw perfectly. Worked the saw up an down and angled the blade. Put it back to 90, and the dog gone thing was back to being mis-aligned. Between the two of us we were at a complete loss. My wife finally asked me what I hoped to accomplish. I said, "Get my saw back in working condition!" Then, she pointed out that IF I was able to get it working, it would be likely that the failure could happen again...and maybe next time I wouldn't be so lucky and notice. Plus, later she admitted that she was just tired of the swearing too.... Lots of ways to fix things. But not everything should be fixed.
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post #18 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post




You haven't addressed why after three years, all of a sudden the saw is out of alignment. If it can change that easily, it should be fixable easily. IOW, why would you have to remove anything, since all those parts were in spec for all that time.






.
Yes, this is the key to this problem.

You are not going to be able to fix the problem until you understand what has changed and why it has changed.

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post #19 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jascotx View Post
Btw, I did have a Delta repair tech come out to my shop. His thought was the rods were bent too. So, we changed them out, which is by no means easy. Then, we re-aligned the saw perfectly. Worked the saw up an down and angled the blade. Put it back to 90, and the dog gone thing was back to being mis-aligned. Between the two of us we were at a complete loss. My wife finally asked me what I hoped to accomplish. I said, "Get my saw back in working condition!" Then, she pointed out that IF I was able to get it working, it would be likely that the failure could happen again...and maybe next time I wouldn't be so lucky and notice. Plus, later she admitted that she was just tired of the swearing too.... Lots of ways to fix things. But not everything should be fixed.
So . . what kind of saw does she think you should have, another contractor saw or a 3HP cabinet saw that helps with dust control and keeps the house cleaner?
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post #20 of 37 Old 01-29-2013, 02:14 PM
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Roger-in all honesty she would have let me justify a Sawstop, she is just like that...and I was 2 seconds from investing in one. Then I remembered, I am a hobbiest, not a professional. And, my kids and college savings comes first. So, I opted to get a Craftsman zipcode saw. It does what I need. I do the best I can with the dust. Not bad, but not perfect. Looking to do better with some DC improvememts though. It just kills me to hear another guy going through a similiar alignment issue. I will never own a saw with table mounted trunions again.
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