Starting from scratch - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 03:12 AM Thread Starter
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Starting from scratch

Hello everybody. I want to start a small woodworking shop. I have limited budget (about 2600 US $) to get started.
So like every other one of us i want to buy the best tools and equipment but unfortunately i can`t do that.
So I put together a list of tools and equipment so i can get started. This is what i came up with:
- joiner planer (something from metabo)
- router
- jig saw
- circular saw (i don`t know i have the money right now for a proper table saw)
- bandsaw (somethings small to put on a workbench)
- a good chisel set
- clamps
- wood glue
- hand plane ( probably no. 4 )
- pocket hole jig
- couple of hammers
- screws
- clamps


So these are the basics with which i want to start my small shop.
I would really like to squeeze a MIG welder and a metal cutting saw but i don`t know if i can right now.
How important is to have a proper circular saw at the beginning?
I saw that many projects can be made using a circular saw and a cutting guide.
Are there any other tools that i need to have at the beginning? (like drill press, router table etc ? )

In any case, my first project is going to make myself a workbench.
Can i go around without a table saw?


Thank you very much.
By the way i leave in Europe so the some different prices and name for different tools.
And of course our measuring system is different so when it comes to getting the wood it will be a
bit of challenge to convert the dimensions, but that is another discussion.

Thank you very much!

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post #2 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 04:46 AM
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I manage with just a B&Q folding portable work bench, circular saw, jig saw, drill, cheap set of chisels.
I use a home made guide (saw how to make on forum) for the circular saw.
If you have space, first priority would be a good work bench with vice. My policy was to buy a tool for a job where cheaper than hiring a tradesman. Eg just bought 30mm holesaw (cost £5) to install a Yale lock.
Then progress as required. Cheapest Table saws are portabl May be could inset into bench. Google and Utube are your friends.
I fitted my shed with a fixed bench made from old kitchen work top.
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 05:02 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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You will want a table saw, but .....

You can make one using your circular saw. There are many videos on You Tube for a DIY table saw. This one isn't too bad, but there are some I watched that were not so good: The fence is the most difficult to make so it aligns parallel with the blade each time you move and lock it. You will have to watch several of these to find one.

The DIY saw:


The fence:

Here is a handy cross cut guide for smaller pieces:
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-19-2018 at 05:07 AM.
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 06:10 AM
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I have no idea what things cost in Romania. In the US $2600 would buy quite a lot of things on your list and a table saw if you were to look for good used equipment. Can you give us some examples of what tools cost in Romania?

Do not understand your inclusion of a jointer/planner when you do not include a table saw. Do you not have access to finished lumber?

George
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
I have no idea what things cost in Romania. In the US $2600 would buy quite a lot of things on your list and a table saw if you were to look for good used equipment. Can you give us some examples of what tools cost in Romania?

Do not understand your inclusion of a jointer/planner when you do not include a table saw. Do you not have access to finished lumber?

George
For some items the price difference is quite big.
For example a DEWALT DW745 costs 880 us $ here and i looked it on amazon at it costs around 400 us $ (link).
I would like to buy rather then DIY because i`m a beginner and i would probably fail. This is the reason that right now i`m holding back for this purchase.

In contrast the Makita 2704 costs about the same (around 900 us $).

Another example is glue. 1 gallon of titebond III on amazon is 28 $ here is 72$.
A router (same model) difference is 100 us $ (cheaper in USA).
For a k4 kreg jig i would have to pay 50$ more here.
And the second hand marker does not offer the best deals for a beginner. Maybe more experienced woodworkers that know how to calibrate different machines and know what to look for when buying. But for me is to much. This is why i would like to buy new.

So there are some differences between costs for different equipment. And i saw that there is a difference when a company makes a product that runs on 120 V and 220V (here i have 220 alternative current).

Regarding the joiner planer ...i do have access to finished lumber but most of the boards still need a little bit of work.
Treated wood, pressure treated ... not really a thing in my country. So yeah, this is the reason.
And also the thicknesses are so random that you rarely find two boards that have the same thickness.

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post #6 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 10:52 AM
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I personally wouldnít think of starting a woodshop without a table saw. I think itís the centerpiece for a woodshop. And I donít want a circular saw turned upside down in a piece of plywood, I want a table saw. Even an old or cheap table saw will be better than that and can suffice in the beginning.
The planer and bandsaw can come later. You listed clamps twice. Used clamps may not be pretty but they work well.
Also you will need a good combination square and a tape measure.
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If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 11:07 AM
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Building a shop is kinda a work in process. Not many people can afford to go buy everything at once. $2600 would be a good start. And I donít know what the used market is like over there, but I could do pretty good with $2600. Iíd skip the bandsaw and jigsaw in favour of a real table saw. Unless youíre working a lot with 4x8 sheets Iíd also skip the circular saw.

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post #8 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 11:22 AM
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I started small (shop size & budget). The first "large" tool purchased was a good quality table saw with the ability to mount a router in one of the wings. This set me back $500 but it is one of the most useful & used tools in a wood shop. For cutting metal, I have a real good quality hack saw and a metal cutting blade for my 10" benchtop band saw. I would not go smaller than a 10" band saw and don't waste your limited funds on a three wheeler. They typically don't have the quality to maintain settings and don't have the capacity or power for heavy resawing. I added power tools pretty much as needed for various projects. I would also say a drill press is essential as it can use tons of accessories to do what other single use tools can do. If your shop space is small, put these larger tools on mobile bases so they can be moved out of the way when not in use. You will also need some sort of work/assembly bench to work on. For many, many years I utilized (and still do) a large WorkMate folding workbench/saw horse with shop made extensions to raise it up to the level of other tools to use as outfeed/infeed support. It also functions as one of two sawhorses, the other being a folding StoreHorse (also with extensions). As you start out, think of what things can do dual or multiple duty in your new shop. Then, you can add more single use machines as you progress and have more money.

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post #9 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 11:56 AM
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To me, your tool list is way too long. Get what you need for the workbench project and nothing more. Add tools as you need them for each project.

I agree with @Toolman50. You will need a good combination square. The cheapest ones are no good. Whatever you buy, verify that it is truly square and accurate. Tape measures are everywhere, but you will also want a good ruler/straightedge. I like the meter-long ones (yeah, 39 inches) with both Metric and Imperial scales, but they are hard to find here in the US. Shorter rulers are handy too. Make sure the scales are accurate and the edges are perfectly straight.

My first major woodworking tool purchase was the table saw. I already had a circular saw for home repairs.

I would NEVER consider building a table saw from a flipped-over circular saw. That is a future injury, just waiting to happen. I admit, I was surprised to see that your list did not include a table saw. You could easily afford a table saw if you give up some of the other tools.

Here are my questions for @ralex:
* What tools do you already have?
* When you are done with the workbench, what will be your next project?
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 12:21 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Search DIY table saw on You Tube

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...=DIY+table+saw

If you Search You Tube for DIY table saws there are over 1,090,000 results. All these folks can't be idiots. There is nothing unsafe about a circ saw mounted upside down in a plywood panel and a reachable ON/OFF switch that is all that different from a standard table saw, especially the cheap ones. The fence is critical to safety in both cases. A bad fence is unsafe no matter what it's mounted upon.
That why I said ...."The fence is the most difficult to make so it aligns parallel with the blade each time you move and lock it. You will have to watch several of these to find one."

When I started out 50 years ago, I began with the biggest, baddest circular saw I could find at the local hardware store, a 15 lb, 8 1/4" Skil saw. I mounted it under a small, stamped steel table from somewhere with a crummy fence and a remote ON/OFF switch. I was lucky nothing bad happened. A good sized table, and a solid fence would be 100 X better than what I started with.

For all of you who wouldn't use one, that's fine, but sometimes you gotta start somewhere, and a budget will dictate your choice of tools. Don't forget the OP is in a foreign country, so all we know about availability and pricing doesn't apply. Plenty of carpenters have done just this on a jobsite when the need for a table saw arose.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-19-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 12:36 PM
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I agree with woodnthings on this, some of us started way back when there was very little selection of tools available, you either paid big dollars or you innovated.

I had a circular saw set up similar to Bill's, used it for years and lent it out to many of my friends, actually preferred it to the first real table saw I had with the tilting table. For what it was worth I actually made a blade guard for mine.

Back to the OP's post, get what you need as you go along, there are many ways to do the same thing in woodworking, you will soon realize what actually need.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #12 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 03:46 PM
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I'm going to assume that somewhere in Romania you have such things as swap sheets to buy and sell used tools and equipment. I'd stay open to used tools and equipment whenever possible. You'll save a lot of money that way plus a lot of used equipment made years ago is much better quality although I'm not sure how much good quality stuff is available locally for you. Are you able to travel around to different cities and even countries in search of the tools you might be interested in buying? I don't really know, but I can imagine that throughout Europe there are LOTS and lots of great deals available if you have the ability to travel to where they're at.

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 04:02 PM
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Just buy the tool you need when you can't get by with what you have.

Is the pricing on Bosch better than DeWalt? It's a German company, so maybe EU pricing is better?
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
Here are my questions for @ralex:
* What tools do you already have?
* When you are done with the workbench, what will be your next project?

First, i want to thank everybody for the help.
Now, tools i have:
- cordless drill
- impact driver
- hacksaw and a fine trimming saw
- aluminium straight edge (1 meter)
- combination square (the good kind)
- tape measure
- digital caliper
- one chisel (i believe it`s 3/4 inch)
- couple of hammers

And i believe that is it. My brother has a orbital sander, circular saw and a chop saw that i can borrow when i need them.
After the workbench is done i would like to make a table for my kitchen (not a very big one 2 x 3 feet) and a dog house.

I watched my fare share of videos for diy table saw but i am really concerned that i will not pull of the fence thing.
But i believe that if i take my time and employ some aluminium profiles i will manage this.
I would invest in a dewalt portable saw but now right away. I would like to be able to do the workbench
and the other couple of projects without a table saw. Maybe i would go ahead and try to make a table saw :)

Now, what tools do i need for my future projects. I don`t want to waste money on thing that i don`t need at the beginning.


L.E. @sanchez yes, bosch is cheaper than dewalt but also the quality is no the same. If you want a comparison, bosch GTS 10 XC is the same as dewalt dw745 (in romania)
@allpuopose yes, we have something similar to craigs list but i prefer the method you mentioned to travel and buy the items face to face. You have to take into consideration the cost of everything when you decide to do this because it just might be that the final price for a used circular saw is not that low as appose to a new one. I will have to take a careful approach regarding used tools. At least at the beginning.

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Last edited by ralex; 02-19-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 04:34 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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circular saw safety issue

My rule is, when the work is too long or heavy to use the table saw, go to the circular saw. Visa versa, when the work is too small to safely or conveniently use a circular saw, use the table saw. There is a reason most shops have both tools, it's because they are required based on the length and weight of the workpiece. Granted, a circular saw is most often found on a job site and used to cut dimension lumber to lengths or large panels down to size as well as trimming sheating on the roof. In my shop there is a RAS set up at 90 degrees for trimming to length and squaring the ends of most of my workpieces... it's just handier.

This crosscut jig I posted above, will allow the operator to safely cut smaller lengths and pieces, either cross cut OR rip. It combines better control of both the saw and the workpiece. It will take considerable work and accuracy to make however, and it may be beyond the capability of most beginners. Ironically, it would be much easier to make IF you had a table saw.....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-19-2018 at 05:28 PM.
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-19-2018, 04:35 PM
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Welcome to the forum! Lots of good advice so far so I'm not going to add to it at this point, except to say 'get a table saw'.

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post #17 of 17 Old 02-20-2018, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
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I forgot to mention that the space i have is roughly 320 square feet (that`s 30 square meters). I don`t know the exact dimensions, only the total surface.
It will be a rented space since i live in an apartment building.
Now i will try to give you an example of how much the workbench will cost me.
I plan to use finished lumber for this project as i don`t have tools to do finishing work.
All boards will be 9 feet 10 inches (3 meters) in length as I want the workbench to be as long as possible (I don`t want a lot a lot of waste and the next length is 6 feet 6 inches and that seem a little bit to shot). Now, i have three widths to choose from:
- 4.29 inch by 0.84 inch (109x21.5 mm; this board is 3 $),
- 3.7 inch by 1.1 inch (94x28mm; this board is 7.45 $) and
- 2.7 inches by 1.1 inch (70x28 mm; this board is 4.78 $).
I want the workbench to be 3 feet wide (thatís 90 cm). So after a little bit of calculation these are the results (using 4.29 by 0.84 inch boards Ė I know how to make these dimensions in quarters and sixteenths and thirty-seconds and so on so you will have to bear with me). I need 43 boards for the top. That translates to 129 $. For the legs I will use a 4x4 inch finished lumber thatís 18 dollars for 13 feet and. This piece should be enough for all my legs. And now I will put another 10 boards for braces and shelfs and just to be on the safe side, thatís another 30 bucks. With the glue and screws I think another 15-20 dollars that will give me a total of around 200 $.
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