Staining pine and joinery question - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Staining pine and joinery question

Hey guys, been a minute since I have posted on here. Im doing a coffee table for my grandfather and having trouble with the stain. I have done a little research on staining pine and have got mixed results. The stain is minwax early american. Now some people say seal the wood with a 1lb cut of shellac, seal with a conditioner(Minwax), or use Charles Neilís Pre-Color Conditioner. Now will all that knowledge im really confused. What do yall recommend. I know the easy choice is dont use pine but some people cant afford a hardwood table.


Now onto joinery. So far in my woodworking projects, nothing has required special joints ie cutting boards, benches, and speaker boxes. Now that I have customers want large farm tables and so forth, I want a sound method of jointing that doesnt involve pocket screws. The table I have built is pocket holed together but that was deliberate. I was trying to test them out and didnt like the result. I want a method to attach breadboard ends or panel top together that is relatively quick and easy. I do have a router, table saw, and most other tools. Not many hand tools though.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 02:43 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,705
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
I'll be perfectly honest, with a well sanded piece of pine I've never had any issues with blotchiness when it comes to staining. I'd recommend sanding very well with some 220 grit, and the wiping on the stain with a rag. Personally, I don't brush stain or flood it on, as I feel I get better color consistency by wiping on a thin coat

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
I'll be perfectly honest, with a well sanded piece of pine I've never had any issues with blotchiness when it comes to staining. I'd recommend sanding very well with some 220 grit, and the wiping on the stain with a rag. Personally, I don't brush stain or flood it on, as I feel I get better color consistency by wiping on a thin coat
Yea I was using a brush. May try that on some test pieces. I sanded to 180 to 220 might help too.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 03:19 PM
Senior Member
 
nostrildamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 152
View nostrildamus's Photo Album My Photos
Minwax's Pre-Stain Conditioner really is just a thin shellac. Don't know about the other brand. If you're going to use regular shellac I think 1/2# cut would be better than 1#.
nostrildamus is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 03:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Huntingdon Cambs UK
Posts: 163
View sancho's Photo Album My Photos
Be sure to use a dewax shellac
sancho is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 04:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,043
View Masterjer's Photo Album My Photos
All the products you list are considered wood conditioners and can be used to help with blotching. They help to seal up the extra thirsty parts of the board so that when you add color, it is absorbed more uniformly. Definitely use a dewaxed shellac so you don't have adhesion problems with a top coat.
Masterjer is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 04:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,991
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
If it were me I would use some kind of pre-stain conditioner. If the wood does stain blotchy it's an overwhelming job to fix it, especially this time of year when paint stripper doesn't work. There are any number of different products you can use for a conditioner. If you are not using polyurethane you can thin any shellac. With poly it would be necessary to use a dewaxed shellac like sealcoat. You could use a packaged conditioner. Many folks like the charles neil blotch control however I haven't had a chance to try it. Most of my career I've used a 50/50 mixture of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. I apply it and allow it to completely dry before staining.

As far as the joinery it's enough to use a jointer and dress the edges of the wood until the joints dry fit without spaces between. Then just glue it up any carpenters glue and clamp with pipe or bar clamps. Don't put excessive pressure on the clamps or you will squeeze out too much glue. First snug the wood up and take a small sledge hammer and a block of wood and knock the wood down level with each other. Then square and size the glue up and sand it flat. Then you can machine a tenon on the ends of the top for the breadboard end. The breadboard end is just a tongue and groove joint however you don't glue it on. I prefer to attach the breadboard end on with screws only. I pre-drill a pilot hole through the tenon into the top side of the breadboard. Then I remove the breadboard end and elongate the hole on the tongue to allow for shrinkage. Then I install the breadboard end on with three screws.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
If it were me I would use some kind of pre-stain conditioner. If the wood does stain blotchy it's an overwhelming job to fix it, especially this time of year when paint stripper doesn't work. There are any number of different products you can use for a conditioner. If you are not using polyurethane you can thin any shellac. With poly it would be necessary to use a dewaxed shellac like sealcoat. You could use a packaged conditioner. Many folks like the charles neil blotch control however I haven't had a chance to try it. Most of my career I've used a 50/50 mixture of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. I apply it and allow it to completely dry before staining.

As far as the joinery it's enough to use a jointer and dress the edges of the wood until the joints dry fit without spaces between. Then just glue it up any carpenters glue and clamp with pipe or bar clamps. Don't put excessive pressure on the clamps or you will squeeze out too much glue. First snug the wood up and take a small sledge hammer and a block of wood and knock the wood down level with each other. Then square and size the glue up and sand it flat. Then you can machine a tenon on the ends of the top for the breadboard end. The breadboard end is just a tongue and groove joint however you don't glue it on. I prefer to attach the breadboard end on with screws only. I pre-drill a pilot hole through the tenon into the top side of the breadboard. Then I remove the breadboard end and elongate the hole on the tongue to allow for shrinkage. Then I install the breadboard end on with three screws.
Wow thanks for the long write up. I think im gonna try to get my hands on a 6in jointer. That would fix a lot of problems I think. Im gonna look into the breadboard ends a little more.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 08:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,991
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Do yourself a favor and look for a jointer that is as long as possible. It really helps when straightening long boards.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Do yourself a favor and look for a jointer that is as long as possible. It really helps when straightening long boards.
Well, my shop is pretty small and I dont have a ton of money. Saw a few on my local CL that had long beds but were 2hrs away and pretty heavy.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 11-25-2014, 09:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,991
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
The thing about woodworking equipment is the stuff tends to last forever. You buy something crummy you end up suffering with it for years. I bought a craftsman jointer like this one in 1973 and are still suffering with it. Last year I did buy second jointer however the craftsman has had a lot of modifications to make it usable. The main thing I hate about it is the rear table isn't adjustable. This means when changing the knives they have to be installed perfect in order to work.
Attached Images
 
Steve Neul is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 11-26-2014, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
The thing about woodworking equipment is the stuff tends to last forever. You buy something crummy you end up suffering with it for years. I bought a craftsman jointer like this one in 1973 and are still suffering with it. Last year I did buy second jointer however the craftsman has had a lot of modifications to make it usable. The main thing I hate about it is the rear table isn't adjustable. This means when changing the knives they have to be installed perfect in order to work.
Yea the problem is I could only spend maybe $350. Doubt Ill find a big one for that price.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 11-26-2014, 10:03 PM
Steve Neul is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 11-27-2014, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
The first two are possibilities. The other two ( one seems to have sold) are way to far away.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Staining Pine djg Wood Finishing 11 12-12-2012 11:20 PM
Staining Pine Cabinets onioner Wood Finishing 5 01-12-2012 05:18 PM
Help: red pine staining Logman3585 Wood Finishing 4 08-04-2011 03:18 PM
Staining Pine Door BurtDiesel Wood Finishing 11 02-13-2010 11:08 AM
Staining Pine tate16t Wood Finishing 23 12-16-2006 12:39 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome