Small square recommendation - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 36 Old 03-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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I have one of those 4 inch double squares. Its small size makes it so convenient and easy to use. I think that every woodworker should have one. Highly recommended!
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post #22 of 36 Old 03-10-2019, 12:35 AM
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How good is the square? Only you can tell.

1 ~ Pick the one that you want.
2 ~ Check it against similar models of the same brand. If the square is not accurate, pick another and start at 1 again.
3 ~ Check the square against those of another brand or brands. If the square is accurate, congratulations.

Rich
In furniture 1/32" is a Grand Canyon
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post #23 of 36 Old 03-10-2019, 12:49 AM
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I was given a Stanley combination square about 60 years ago after a summer of apprenticing to a finish carpenter. Was not perfectly acurate, so I carefully cleaned all the stuff that had accumulate on it over the decades. Checked after cleaning with a draftsman's square and it was perfect again. Brings back a lot of fond memories every time I use it. I have a six incher that was not expensive, and is also perfectly square. I use it a lot.
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post #24 of 36 Old 03-11-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
...so many people overthink the tools - compared to their skill set.

.

.
When I am trying to learn a new skill-set I always buy the best tools I can afford. My reasoning is this:

If I buy cheap tools, and my results are poor, is it because my poor skills, or is it because of the poor quality tools?

If I know that the tools are good, then I know that I have to work on my skills. If it is the tools that are at fault, I won't have the knowledge to pin point that as the problem.

If you have a good teacher you can get away with cheap tools, but if you are learning on your own, you need quality equipment.
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post #25 of 36 Old 03-11-2019, 09:36 AM
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Yes, what he said ^, but ......

There are so many variables, one piece tools, tools with moving parts, tools with motors, tools used to measure, levels, cutting tools, machining tools.... etc.


A simple square only needs to be square and the test is very easy. Register it to a line or edge, make a line, flip it, make another line close to the first, compare the results. The lines should be parallel.
How parallel? Close enough you that can't see any difference.



Measuring pieces that have to fit together requires more precision, but that all depends whether they are wood and will be glued OR metal pieces that need to rotate. The tool must fit the application. A nice $100 Starrett square will be a family heirloom to be handed down, while a $10 Irwin won't be. You would be a lot more careful with the Starrett, than the Irwin and for good reason. You wouldn't want to drop either one, but especially the Starrett.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #26 of 36 Old 03-11-2019, 07:58 PM
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It's as good as you make it work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dws780 View Post
In the market for a 6” or 8” steel square.

Since I can’t justify paying for a woodpecker I was looking at the Empire one at Home Depot. Is it any good? I know it won’t be as good as woodpecker.
Any recommendations on other brands?


True Blue Heavy-Duty Square

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202035308


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Your "homedepot" square by "Empire" should be just fine...that's the quick answer...

Don't over think this...As George and John were alluding too...This is "wood working" and not "wood machining" (aka "machinist approach to woodworking.)

Think of the history of the craft? Wood workers of the past made their own "squares" out of wood...not metal. Those wooden squares built most of the..."wooden world"...we see historically.

A metal square was the tool of a Master, and even then was often wood, just better built. I made my first squares and used them for years to build not only my furniture but my timber frames as well. I still use a "home made" squaring tool most often and only "bang around" with the metal ones for "visualizing" joinery I'm working on. Many of the young crafts people I help learn woodworking also make their own as well...

Lots of good info out on the net should wish to explore that option...

Good luck...

Tosa Tomo Designs
Confucius (551 BCE): "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand..." "...Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance..." Socrates:“I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only help them think..."
Stephen Covey:"Seek to understand, before seeking to be understood..."

Last edited by Jay C. White Cloud; 03-11-2019 at 08:04 PM.
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post #27 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhail2400 View Post
I bought this 4 piece set of machinists squares from Grizzly and I love them. Use them every time im in the shop and if they are out any I havnt discovered it. Best part is the price.
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...uare-Set/H2993
I have the same Grizzly set and have been using them for years. They are well worth the money. I also have a Woodpecker 9" square, that came with a beautiful display case! The Grizzly squares came in plastic bags in plain white recyclable cardboard boxes. The Grizzly squares are used all the time while the Woodpecker square is so pretty it should be hung on the wall .

You can also make your own woodworking squares for under $1. Use the 3x4x5 dimensions for an accurate square. As many have mentioned, a square just has to be accurate.

I have made a few squares for special situations. I will be making one soon that I will use to check if a cabinet is square after being glued up. It will be a 3'x4'x5' square that will sit on the outside of a cabinet. This will be faster than measuring across the diagonal, which is what I usually do. Hopefully, this large square will help me adjust the clamps during glue up to make sure the cabinet is perfectly square. After I finish gluing all the cabinets, I will disassemble the square, rather than storing it.

Eric

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post #28 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 03:27 AM
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Dollar Tree has 12" metal squares for $1
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post #29 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unburled View Post
Dollar Tree has 12" metal squares for $1

And they would probably work pretty well. But it would be blasphemy on here to some people to pay so little for a tool.


George
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post #30 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
a square (or any tool) is only as accurate as the person using it
to perform the task for which it was designed for.

i.e.: marking perfectly square lines on a piece of wood . . . . .
then, the "craftsman" can't follow a straight line with a saw.
or: checking for square in a build, only to find it was not built
square to begin with.
even Harbor Freight carries "accurate" squares - if you calibrate them yourself.
so many people overthink the tools - compared to their skill set.

.

.
I don't agree with this mentality at all. Errors compound...why not eliminate as many potential errors as possible?

For the record, I'm not saying that a $100 square is gong to produce a better product that a $10 square, but to say why worry about making a square line if you can't cut on the line is just wrong.
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post #31 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
a square (or any tool) is only as accurate as the person using it
Yes, but if a person has good eye to hand coordination, an inaccurate square would make an inaccurate cut in an otherwise perfection situation. Tony B

i.e.: marking perfectly square lines on a piece of wood . . . . .
then, the "craftsman" can't follow a straight line with a saw.
or: checking for square in a build, only to find it was not built
square to begin with. If they had an accurate square, they would know the object was not square and could compensate for it. Tony B
even Harbor Freight carries "accurate" squares -..............Yes, these days, with new high tech machinery, even the low end manufacturers can make a good square - maybe. Tony B...........
I agree a lot in what you are saying, however, some of us can actually cut on a perfect line whether square or not. As for those of us that cant, time and experience will bring most of them to the point of very real accuracy.
As stated earlier, one does not need a $100 square, but one does need an accurate one. If someone wanted to make their own square, they can make a highly accurate one using the 3-4-5 method - providing they can cut on a straight line. Or, they can purchase a set of drafting triangles at a very reasonable price.

Anyway, I just cant see sabotaging ourselves with an inaccurate square, or for that matter, an inaccurate tool, just because we are not YET capable of cutting a straight line.

Tony B

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Retired woodworker, amongst other things, Sold full time cruising boat and now full time cruising in RV. Currently in Denison, Tx
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post #32 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 10:39 AM
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A lot depends on what you are measuring. If you are cutting hand cut mortise and tenons, then you need very accurate measuring tools.

If you are cutting 2" x 8" lumber with a circular saw, than almost anything will be accurate enough.

I have a Starrett combination square and a General combination square. If I am doing construction work, I use the General, and I don't worry about mishandling the square. But for joinery, I use the Starrett and I handle it carefully.
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post #33 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard View Post
A lot depends on what you are measuring.

Measuring/verifying an angle or a distance.
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post #34 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
the 3-4-5 method
set of drafting triangles

or a construct a perpendicular with a compass
or a sheet of copy paper
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post #35 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unburled View Post
or a construct a perpendicular with a compass
or a sheet of copy paper
Having spent many years in the printing trade I know not to trust a sheet of copy paper to have absolutely square corners.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
― Marcus Aurelius
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post #36 of 36 Old 03-15-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
absolutely
absolutely
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