Saw Stop Operation and Dust Control System Question - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 27 Old 10-21-2019, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
Saw Stop Operation and Dust Control System Question

Hi All,
I just finished assembling my new PCS 1.75 hp with the 52" T-Glide system but I feel like a kid that just got a new bike Christmas morning and it's raining :-)
Which brings me to my question: I only have 20 amp available in my shop so I am waiting on the electrician to upgrade to 30 amp and install 220v to my shop so I can convert my motor to 220 on the saw and my Jet DC 1100XV-5M as well as they both will pull 13 - 15 amps as 120 v motors and 7 - 8 as 220v motors.

I'm of course going to try to run them both as 120v motors for a test and if they don't trip the breaker and saw a little.

If they do trip the breaker, very likely I think, then I can only run the saw and I am kind of concerned about running it with no vacuum for the sawdust. I will be running it outside so I'm more concerned about too much sawdust in the cabinet. Should I wait or will it be ok do you think? I can vacuum out the cabinet after sawing.
What do you experienced guys think?
Thanks, BillF

Last edited by [email protected]; 10-21-2019 at 11:56 PM.
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old 10-21-2019, 11:47 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 17
View MRB10's Photo Album My Photos
Try not starting at the same time to avoid tripping breakers.
Or
Run a cord to the vacuum from another circuit

Youíve probably got 15 amp circuits. DONíT swap them for 20s, most likely wiring isnít rated for 20

Install a sub panel in the shop if you can afford it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
MRB10 is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old 10-21-2019, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
Oops, I was thinking I WILL have 30 amp and currently have only 20 amp. I have corrected the post. Sorry and thanks again.
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 27 Old 10-22-2019, 04:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N. Strabane PA (South of Pittsburgh)
Posts: 263
View regesullivan's Photo Album My Photos
I don't beleive there is a good reason to change your saw from 120v to 240v. It will use the same amount of electricty and will have the same hp regardless of 240v or 120v. If you are trying to be thrifty just run a second 120v 20 amp circuit to your shop. For not much more you could run 240v 50 or 60 amp feeder to a sub panel and handle all your future needs.

Even with 240v in the shop I would not change the saw to 240v unless you have an unbalanced load problem you can't work out by changing around a few breakers.
regesullivan is online now  
post #5 of 27 Old 10-23-2019, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
The reason I am utilizing the option to run the motors as 220v instead of 110v is not to save electricity, it's because the amps required to run the machine will be cut in half. The Jet dust collection system will pull 6 amps wired for 220v vs. 11 amps as a 110v motor.
I currently have 200 amp service to the house, and I'm having a sub panel installed as my current panel is completely full with the 1/2 size type breakers, and I want to have a whole house surge protector installed which takes up two spots. The way I am getting 30 amp to the shop is taking a RV 30 amp plug where the previous owner parked his RV and running 10 gauge wire due to the distance (150 feet) to the shop. If I could run a 50 amp circuit instead I would.


So I probably made the original post much more detailed than I needed to talking about the reasons why I was needing to run without a dust control system as it really wasn't a question about electricity but really if it would be a problem running the saw without dust control and trying to vacuum out the cabinet afterwards.
post #6 of 27 Old 10-23-2019, 01:13 AM
Ancient Termite
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Posts: 505
View NoThankyou's Photo Album My Photos
We had done a remodel and added a 100 amp sub panel in the garage.

I had a 120 volt Jet contractor saw and switched to a 240 volt Unisaw. The Jet was on a 20 Amp circuit with 12 gauge wire from the sub panel. The Unisaw is on a 30 Amp circuit with 10 gauge wire from the sub panel. In other words, both had ample amperage for operation.

When I turned the Jet saw on, it was normal. Sort of a bit of a run up to full speed.
When I turn on the Unisaw it is more like turning a light on. It just explodes to full speed. There is no detectable run up or start.

I liked the way that the Unisaw ran on 240 so much that I converted the dust collector to 240 also. I bought a 240 volt Long Ranger so I could turn it on remotely.

The advice here is to put both on 240 volts and higher amperage than needed. It is well worth it in the long run.

And, yes the saw will run more efficiently on 240 volts, especially on the higher amperage circuit. Not a lot more efficient but somewhat more efficient. The reason is something called IR drop. (I won't go into IR drop as it belongs on an Electrical Engineering forum and not a woodworking forum.)

Rich
In furniture 1/32" is a Grand Canyon

Last edited by NoThankyou; 10-23-2019 at 01:19 AM. Reason: Cutting the nay sayers off at the pass.
NoThankyou is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old 10-23-2019, 01:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,985
View Tool Agnostic's Photo Album My Photos
I am running my SawStop PCS-175 from a 110v, 20 amp circuit as a temporary solution until I install a subpanel in the garage. I use a 40 year old 16 gallon Craftsman shop vac for dust collection. I always fire up the shop vac first and wait for it to stabilize before spinning the table saw blade.

The shop vac definitely slows down when I first power up the table saw, but the circuit breaker doesn't react and everything keeps going at normal speeds. I have not tried rip cutting 3 inch sugar maple on it yet.

I work outside. I have made a few small cuts without the shop vac connected, and there was no harm done. A small amount of dust collected inside the cabinet, and was easily vacuumed out after the fact by the shop vac.

If you are uncertain about running both at the same time, then I suggest that you make a cut or a small number of cuts, then turn off the saw and turn on the dust collector, alternating between them until you get your electrical circuit upgraded.

I hope you don't work outside in Pahrump in August. :-o
Tool Agnostic is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old 10-23-2019, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
I am running my SawStop PCS-175 from a 110v, 20 amp circuit as a temporary solution until I install a subpanel in the garage. I use a 40 year old 16 gallon Craftsman shop vac for dust collection. I always fire up the shop vac first and wait for it to stabilize before spinning the table saw blade.

The shop vac definitely slows down when I first power up the table saw, but the circuit breaker doesn't react and everything keeps going at normal speeds. I have not tried rip cutting 3 inch sugar maple on it yet.

I work outside. I have made a few small cuts without the shop vac connected, and there was no harm done. A small amount of dust collected inside the cabinet, and was easily vacuumed out after the fact by the shop vac.

If you are uncertain about running both at the same time, then I suggest that you make a cut or a small number of cuts, then turn off the saw and turn on the dust collector, alternating between them until you get your electrical circuit upgraded.

I hope you don't work outside in Pahrump in August. :-o

Thanks to all for the input, and especially Tool Agnostic and No Thank You as they were both especially helpful to my specific situation. Again, thank you everybody, BillF
post #9 of 27 Old 10-23-2019, 02:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: On the farm in West Texas cotton country
Posts: 619
View WesTex's Photo Album My Photos
Occasionally I forget to open the gate on my dust collector. (I suffer from Senioritis - aka CRS). I have no problems with excessive dust in the SawStop when this happens.
When I get on a cleaning binge (an infrequent occurrence) I use the shop vac to suck out what I can, then turn on the dust collector (with the gate open) while using the air compressor to blow air into the SawStop cavity. This gets the remaining dust into the air to be sucked into the collection chute by the DC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WesTex is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old 10-26-2019, 08:44 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 17
View MRB10's Photo Album My Photos
A 240 v circuit supplies the same amperage to the saw as the 120v. It divides that amperage between the two 120 leads. The electric meter spins the same speed. Not saying the saw wonít benefit but power bills will hardly budge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MRB10 is offline  
post #11 of 27 Old 10-27-2019, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRB10 View Post
A 240 v circuit supplies the same amperage to the saw as the 120v. It divides that amperage between the two 120 leads. The electric meter spins the same speed. Not saying the saw wonít benefit but power bills will hardly budge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ya, I'm not concerned about the power bills. I'm more focused on being able to operate two machines (dust control at 6 amps and table saw at 7/8 amps) at the same time on a 30 amp circuit instead of 11 and 15 amps respectively.
post #12 of 27 Old 10-27-2019, 06:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N. Strabane PA (South of Pittsburgh)
Posts: 263
View regesullivan's Photo Album My Photos
If you run 30 amp 240v you are limited to only 30 amp outlets and no lighting unless the lamp holders or fixture is rated for 30 amp or higher. I was perplexed as to how this is an advantage unless your goal is to run a single (10-3) wire until I recalled where you were getting the power from and why...

Last edited by regesullivan; 10-27-2019 at 06:33 PM.
regesullivan is online now  
post #13 of 27 Old 10-28-2019, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
On the side of my house I have an RV 30 amp outlet that the electrician will convert to basically a junction box to run the 10 gauge wire to my shop area where we will put a panel with a few breakers to allow me to isolate 120V lights and receptacles as well as two 240V receptacles, one for the dust control and one for the table saw. Since I will be well below 30 amps, and only using one power tool (in addition to the dust control) at a time I should be fine. If I keep the motors as 120V instead of converting to the 240V I will always be close or closer to the line.
post #14 of 27 Old 10-28-2019, 09:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N. Strabane PA (South of Pittsburgh)
Posts: 263
View regesullivan's Photo Album My Photos
A 30 amp RV outlet is 120v. So I assume your plan is to change out the breaker and use the existing 10-2 wire and convert to 240v (2 hots and a ground). This will use one more space in the panel. Then you can power 240v outlets with that but you likely will not have enough conductors to service a panel.
regesullivan is online now  
post #15 of 27 Old 10-28-2019, 10:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N. Strabane PA (South of Pittsburgh)
Posts: 263
View regesullivan's Photo Album My Photos
After giving it some thought and assuming first, this is not a detached garage and second the total lenth of the 10-2 run is not so long as to have a voltage drop problem I have a suggestion. Run the 10-2 circuit to the shop and de-rate it to 20 amp (use a 20 amp breaker). Add a few recepticals and keep the saw and dust collection on different circuits. This would give you more flexibility and solve the issue.
regesullivan is online now  
post #16 of 27 Old 10-29-2019, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
The shop area is about 150' from the former 30 amp RV receptacle, which is on the other side of the house from the panel. That is why we are using 10 gauge wire to prevent the voltage drop from being an issue.
We can't upgrade the service to say like 400 amps as that would not be cost acceptable. Wife is kind of getting indigestion with all the wood working equipment purchases as it is lol.
post #17 of 27 Old 10-29-2019, 10:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N. Strabane PA (South of Pittsburgh)
Posts: 263
View regesullivan's Photo Album My Photos
Without knowing the total distance I can't look up the voltage drop calculations. Even so, at 150' with 10-2 I'm sure you will have to much v drop to run you equipment at 120v. Even at 240 you might need to de-rate the circuit to where it is not sufficient for just the saw and dust collector.

You might need to bite the bullet and run a proper feeder and sub panel.

Is your main panel or another sub panel so far from your shop that a 50 or 60 amp feeder is not practical? Why would you need to upgrade the service to 400 amp? If you are out of space install a sub panel near the main panel and run your new feeder from that.

Last edited by regesullivan; 10-29-2019 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Added a question
regesullivan is online now  
post #18 of 27 Old 10-30-2019, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
I will have the electrician do the calculations and show me. He doesn't seem to think its going to be a problem but at $1500 I want to be sure. Thanks
post #19 of 27 Old 10-30-2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pahrump (las Vegas) Nv.
Posts: 40
View wjfeeney@hotmail.com's Photo Album My Photos
Good news! We are going to run 8 awg wire to the shop. The electrician was way ahead of me to be on the safe side he planned on 8 gauge not 10, but I'm glad I checked with him to be sure we were sized right. Thank you regesullivan
post #20 of 27 Old 10-30-2019, 11:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N. Strabane PA (South of Pittsburgh)
Posts: 263
View regesullivan's Photo Album My Photos
Glad I was able to give you some ideas!

Just for the fun of it here is a voltage drop calculator to play with. It doesn't allow enough parameters to it use for your installation but gets you close enough to help understand what is going on with long runs.

https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

Glad you have an electrican doing this kind of work and are concerned enough to have it done properly. Lots of guys would be running extension and wonder why the motor burned up in a year or why the house caught fire when they were busy in their shop.
regesullivan is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome