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-   -   Safest way to rip a 1" piece of long trim? (https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/safest-way-rip-1-piece-long-trim-209285/)

Microscopes 12-19-2018 12:42 PM

Safest way to rip a 1" piece of long trim?
 
Starting to think of all the things that could go wrong when ripping a 1" (wide) piece of trim, down to only half of an inch (1/2").

The pieces are 4 feet long.

Not much material to hold on to (width wise).

Suggestions?

woodnthings 12-19-2018 01:00 PM

You'll need to use a follower
 
The first thing I'd do is clamp a 3/4" scrap behind the blade, just a tad above your material thickness onto the fence because the strips will tend to rise up as they are being cut.
The next thing is to set your fence to the 1/2" width and have an extra piece of material or scrap close at hand to follow the very last piece through past the blade at the end.
You can also add a feather board in front of the blade clamped to the table to press the work against the fence as you are making the cuts.
As you run each piece through part way, grab the next one and push it through right behind the first one and so on. Then on the final one, use your scrap follower to push it all the way through.

Another method is to only cut half way down the length, stop the saw, remove the piece and turn it end for end and complete the last half of the cut. I've done it both ways with success. A riving knife or splitter will help keep it against the fence also. I use them almost all the time these days after I found out what they actually do! :smile2:

GeorgeC 12-19-2018 01:01 PM

That should really be no problem. You just have to use narrow (1/2" or less) push sticks. Use two. One to keep the material snug against the fence and one to push the material past the blade. Actually, the stick that holds the material can be wider than 1/2".



George

woodnthings 12-19-2018 01:08 PM

The 2 push stick method is dangerous ...
 
I've seen guys use 2 push sticks hoping and praying they don't slip down on the work piece and into the spinning blade. A push shoe is the only safe way to control narrow pieces and you just cut right through the stop on the end. The "Gripper" is a device that does much the same thing.


Our member Catpower, had a push stick touch the rear of the blade and it jammed it into his palm causing extreme injury... ER visit $$$$.

Microscopes 12-19-2018 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 2025927)
The first thing I'd do is clamp a 3/4" scrap behind the blade, just a tad above your material thickness onto the fence because the strips will tend to rise up as they are being cut.
The next thing is to set your fence to the 1/2" width and have an extra piece of material or scrap close at hand to follow the very last piece through past the blade at the end.
You can also add a feather board in front of the blade clamped to the table to press the work against the fence as you are making the cuts.
As you run each piece through part way, grab the next one and push it through right behind the first one and so on. Then on the final one, use your scrap follower to push it all the way through.

Another method is to only cut half way down the length, stop the saw, remove the piece and turn it end for end and complete the last half of the cut. I've done it both ways with success. A riving knife or splitter will help keep it against the fence also. I use them almost all the time these days after I found out what they actually do! :smile2:

This is amazing.

Thank you for the help!

I'm still learning, so apologies for the "newby" question.

GeorgeC 12-19-2018 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 2025933)
I've seen guys use 2 push sticks hoping and praying they don't slip down on the work piece and into the spinning blade. A push shoe is the only safe way to control narrow pieces and you just cut right through the stop on the end. The "Gripper" is a device that does much the same thing.

GRR-RIPPER QuickStart Table Saw Safety Video by MICROJIG - YouTube

Our member Catpower, had a push stick touch the rear of the blade and it jammed it into his palm causing extreme injury... ER visit $$$$.


Have you ever tried it? I have been using this for 40 years and had no problems yet. Everything you do is dangerous if you are not smart about it.


George

woodnthings 12-19-2018 04:08 PM

Murphy's Law ...
 
I don't have to try something I know is dangerous to see if it is. If the push sticks slip and slide along the workpiece because they have "no grip" they may contact the blade. There needs to be a positive "hook" on the push stick to prevent it from slipping like a push shoe where there's a stop on the end. The push shoe is way more safe than a push stick. just look at all the good You Tube videos where they are used.


The OP asked for the "safest" way ... so, I'm not gonna give him some advice that I don't totally believe is safe. Better safe than sorry. If you want to continue to use this method, that's up to you. I wouldn't because there are better and safer ways.

Microscopes 12-19-2018 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 2025957)
I don't have to try soemthing I know is dangerous to see if it is. If the push sticks slip and slide along the workpiece because they have "no grip" they may contact the blade. There needs to be a positive "hook" on the push stick to prevent it from slipping like a push shoe where there's a stop on the end. The push shoe is way more safe than a push stick. just look at all the good You Tube videos where they are used.


The OP asked for the "safest" way ... so, I'm not gonna give him some advice that I don't totally believe is safe. Better safe than sorry. If you want to continue to use this method, that's up to you. I wouldn't because there are better and safer ways.

True, but i'm not sure how I would use a push shoe on such a tiny piece of molding.

It's 1" wide by 0.25" tall.

Teeny tiny.

GeorgeC 12-19-2018 06:11 PM

[QUOTE=woodnthings;2025957]I don't have to try soemthing I know is dangerous to see if it is. If the push sticks slip and slide along the workpiece because they have "no grip" they may contact the blade. There needs to be a positive "hook" on the push stick to prevent it from slipping like a push shoe where there's a stop on the end. The push shoe is way more safe than a push stick. just look at all the good You Tube videos where they are used.


The OP asked for the "safest" way ... so, I'm not gonna give him some advice that I don't totally believe is safe. Better safe than sorry. If you want to continue to use this method, that's up to you. I wouldn't because there are better and safer ways.[/QUOT


You have never tried it, but you "know" it is not safe. WOW. Must be nice to be a clairvoyant like that. I guess I can discount my 40 years in safe use.



Can you tell me what the stock market is going to do over the next 6 months. I am particularly interested in AT&T. Of course you will guarantee your forecast will you not?


George

TomCT2 12-19-2018 06:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
wood scraps are your friend - this is tall enough I can ride the fence with the side of my palm, so if it slips/whatever nothing goes dashing into the blade.
Attachment 369455


at 4 foot, you could also plow a dado into a 2x4 so the work pcs sits snug inside and use the 2x4 as a 'carrier'

Steve Neul 12-19-2018 06:31 PM

You could use a push stick or rip the piece half way through and lift it up, turn it around and rip it half way through from the other side.

woodnthings 12-19-2018 06:46 PM

Find the two push stick method here ...
 
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...on+a+table+saw

You won't find it. Why? Because it's not safe. All those videos show "push shoes" which are much safer. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed adversary. :|

FrankC 12-19-2018 07:47 PM

Don't bet on that
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 2025981)
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...on+a+table+saw

You won't find it. Why? Because it's not safe. All those videos show "push shoes" which are much safer. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed adversary. :|

This from the link you posted;


woodnthings 12-19-2018 08:16 PM

I knew there was one!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankC (Post 2025983)
This from the link you posted;

https://youtu.be/gdIQY_7T26k


Does that look safe to you? ..to anyone besides George?

Are you advocating this method, or just stirring the pot? Like I said I an't gonna recommend this method, but you use it if you choose. I only have 58 years of experience using many different table tablesaws, so I am entitled to my opinion, even if I am correct. :vs_cool:

FrankC 12-19-2018 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 2025985)
Does that look safe to you? ..to anyone besides George?

Are you advocating this method, or just stirring the pot? Like I said I an't gonna recommend this method, but you use it if you choose. I only have 58 years of experience using many different table tablesaws, so I am entitled to my opinion, even if I am correct. :vs_cool:

It does not look unsafe to me, I have used that method many times. The push sticks shown in the video have been used for years, what I don't like is when someone picks up a couple random sticks with squared ends with no notch and uses them.

woodnthings 12-20-2018 02:08 AM

This is what you need ....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Microscopes (Post 2025965)
True, but i'm not sure how I would use a push shoe on such a tiny piece of molding.

It's 1" wide by 0.25" tall.

Teeny tiny.

This push shoe from the post by TomTC2 above is exactly what you need. It will allow you to apply downward and forward pressure simultaneously.

https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/atta...mg_0961-1-.jpg

The video by Woodgears is about "making pushsticks" not really analyzing why they are safer or better. Those long skinny one he's making don't give you the down pressure you need as you pass the blade. Notice how he holds the one on the side of the workpiece in front of the blade. The guy is clever, but he ain't always right. He starts out with a push shoe, then switches to the two stick method "because they keep his fingers further away from the blade"... good in theory but not good in practice. That video is one of about 12 that are in that link. The others are about using a push shoe. The push shoe is most effective because it's totally about the forces involved. The long skinny ones can slip or loose their grip on the workpiece, potentially coming in contact with the blade. The notch doesn't prevent them from slipping when used against the side of the workpiece, only at the end.

Full disclosure:
I have several of the thin, narrow ones myself. I use one of them when the workpiece is narrow and I can push it all the way through on the inside of the fence. They aren't useless, just not the best method for all operations.

This video explains why the thin narrow ones aren't good. Look at 2:30 in:

This one explains why the narrow ones don't work:

Another push shoe recommendation:
https://youtu.be/7t01di0k2hI?t=376

Tony B 12-20-2018 07:30 AM

I have been using push shoes for 50 years and they are incredibly safe. It's what I do with my scrap plywood. If you have plenty of heel left on a push shoe, and you are making a 1/2" cut on a 3/4" shoe, just let the blade cut through the shoe, assuming of course the blade is low. Also note that I have had 2 kickbacks over the years and the shoe goes flying and actusll pushes your hand out of the way. The push shoes I also think are dangerous are the ones posted above where you put your hand completely around the shoe. For one thing, you have raised the center of gravity and force and are more likely to inadvertently tilt the shoe and get a kickback and doing this with your hand wrapped around the stick can get hairy. But the ones with handles sure do look cooler.

hawkeye10 12-20-2018 08:10 AM

I use a 2X4 about a foot long and a notch on the rear. The 2X4 will get cut as well but it covers the blade so you will not get cut.

Packard 12-20-2018 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCT2 (Post 2025975)
wood scraps are your friend - this is tall enough I can ride the fence with the side of my palm, so if it slips/whatever nothing goes dashing into the blade.
Attachment 369455


at 4 foot, you could also plow a dado into a 2x4 so the work pcs sits snug inside and use the 2x4 as a 'carrier'


I made mine with the upper section on a 45 degree angle so that I was always pressing down and foward equally.

A splitter is a must for the narrow strip.
I agree that the push stick has to hold the material in the down position as well as push it forward.

I have the Gripper and saw dust seriously reduces the needed grip. A problem.

Magswitch's featherboard is a dream to use and I use it far more often than others I have had. It would be handy for this operation.

My main concern would be kick back. So the splitter and the push down pusher.

woodnthings 12-20-2018 09:36 AM

A splitter is a MUST!
 
I operated my table saws for years without a splitter, but then I realized how they work and why they are necessary. They act as a "third hand" keeping the workpiece registered against the fence behind the blade. Why is this important? When the workpiece of any width comes off the fence at the rear of the blade it will climb up and over the rotating blade and result in a kick back. This is one of the best videos I've found that demonstrates this:

My splitters are now back on the saws and I've never had even a close call since. Here's a good verbal explanation:
http://www.raygirling.com/kickback.htm

Another really good video on kickback:



I have used "disposable" push shoes that I will cut right on through them because they are so close to the fence. They are easily replaced with new ones, so when they get too torn up, out they go.
Safety around the table saw, should not be a habit. It should be a well reasoned approach where forces and friction are taken into account. You can perform an operation for years without and incident, but Murphy's Law strikes, things will go wrong in a heartbeat. If they can go wrong, they will go wrong as the saying goes. I respect Murphy and don't take unnecessary chances. BTW, A saw Stop will NOT prevent a kickback for all the safety police out there. :|

If after all this, you still have a kickback that would be a sad occasion.


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