Is this safe? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-03-2018, 10:20 PM
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I'd have to agree, I've done more dado work on a RAS than a table saw. I worked for a cabinet shop that was making cabinets for about 25 houses a week and I spent two or three years there making the faceframes where the joints were done with mortise and tenon. I did all the tenon work with the home model radial arm saw which the dado blade didn't fit on the saw any better than the one Roybrew has.
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 06:05 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, lots of advice here. I made a few cuts on a cabinet I am building. I might have been able to do it on my table saw, but I would've had to move things because of the length of cabinet side. The RAS did well. I made sure the blades were tight, and took it slow. It did try to climb cut, but slow and steady pressure kept me in control of it. I operate metal lathes and Mills at work, so I have a pretty good understanding of the physics of it. I have also freed a few employees from the jaws of automation, and I still get that gut sickening feeling thinking about seeing your co-worker hung in a piece of equipment. Upper management didn't like how I blamed the company for creating situations that put employees at risk on accident reports. I would just like to see a few safety improvements instead of them merely looking the other way to save a few dollars. Anyhow, lots of teeth on them blades and I respect it. Thanks for y'alls advice.

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post #23 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Roybrew View Post
Wow, lots of advice here. I made a few cuts on a cabinet I am building. I might have been able to do it on my table saw, but I would've had to move things because of the length of cabinet side. The RAS did well. I made sure the blades were tight, and took it slow. It did try to climb cut, but slow and steady pressure kept me in control of it. I operate metal lathes and Mills at work, so I have a pretty good understanding of the physics of it. I have also freed a few employees from the jaws of automation, and I still get that gut sickening feeling thinking about seeing your co-worker hung in a piece of equipment. Upper management didn't like how I blamed the company for creating situations that put employees at risk on accident reports. I would just like to see a few safety improvements instead of them merely looking the other way to save a few dollars. Anyhow, lots of teeth on them blades and I respect it. Thanks for y'alls advice.

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Some people are going to get hurt no matter what you can do. You can't cure stupid. The safety equipment just lets those people's guard down making more stupid. You always have to think of what you are doing and expect something to go wrong and be ready for it. The only time I've ever seen anyone drawn into or hung in woodworking machinery was a hand held belt sander. One guy let the sander down against his leg while it was still running and it grabbed his pants leg and didn't stop until it drew his skin into the sander. It took four of us to hold the sander and pull the belt backwards to let him loose.
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post #24 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 08:56 AM
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accidents VS stupid.......

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I was working in a shop near downtown Mesquite in the late 1970's which had a new Delta 12" saw and one day while I was cutting parts the saw dropped off the arm and when it hit the saw table spun to the right away from me while I was jumping back. What had happened was the carriage bearings broke in two letting the saw off. It was thought it was a just a fluke and new bearings were bought for the saw and within a couple weeks it did it again. At that time I quit running that saw. They replaced the bearings again and not long afterwards the boss ran the saw and it did it on him. This time the saw left the building that day. From what I understand Delta replaced the saw with a 16" saw at no extra charge. I've never seen or heard of a similar instance but the boss said Delta was soon going around trying to get all those saws back.
This was an obvious accident where it was NOT any fault of the operator. You could find fault with who ever did the maintenance on the shop machines, for sure.

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Some people are going to get hurt no matter what you can do. You can't cure stupid. The safety equipment just lets those people's guard down making more stupid. You always have to think of what you are doing and expect something to go wrong and be ready for it. The only time I've ever seen anyone drawn into or hung in woodworking machinery was a hand held belt sander. One guy let the sander down against his leg while it was still running and it grabbed his pants leg and didn't stop until it drew his skin into the sander. It took four of us to hold the sander and pull the belt backwards to let him loose.
Stupid or lack of "thinking" as you put it, is more often by far than incidents where parts and pieces fly off the machine. I've heard of teeth and cutter pieces flying off of saw blades and router bits, but I have never had it happen to me. My Issues have only been "kickbacks" resulting in some nice bruises, nothing serious. I do know a "spear" kickback, where a workpiece kicked back in a local lumber mill that almost killed the operator, so I'm not minimizing kickbacks.

As far as RAS go, if there is any part of the machine that must be inspected and checked for excessive play it's the carriage bearings and looseness in travel. The saw in Steve's story I suspect had no maintenance or inspection even after the first time it came off. Commercial shops are often "too busy" either making money or pushing out product to bother with that.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-04-2018 at 08:58 AM.
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
This was an obvious accident where it was NOT any fault of the operator. You could find fault with who ever did the maintenance on the shop machines, for sure.



Stupid or lack of "thinking" as you put it, is more often by far than incidents where parts and pieces fly off the machine. I've heard of teeth and cutter pieces flying off of saw blades and router bits, but I have never had it happen to me. My Issues have only been "kickbacks" resulting in some nice bruises, nothing serious. I do know a "spear" kickback, where a workpiece kicked back in a local lumber mill that almost killed the operator, so I'm not minimizing kickbacks.

As far as RAS go, if there is any part of the machine that must be inspected and checked for excessive play it's the carriage bearings and looseness in travel. The saw in Steve's story I suspect had no maintenance or inspection even after the first time it came off. Commercial shops are often "too busy" either making money or pushing out product to bother with that.
The story I had about the Delta saw the problem was with the design of the carriage bearings. They were made similar to the Craftsman bearings only the metal was too thin and would easily break. Where the bearings came to a V in the middle they would literally break in two. Delta quickly discontinued that saw and was going around trying to buy them back due to the design flaw and danger. We just had the thing fail three times before they got to use. The retailer the shop bought the saw from must not have known about the problem with the saw since they provided a second set of bearings.

Since the design was similar I ended up replacing the bearings on my Craftsman saw a half dozen times over the next ten years before I started getting comfortable with it. Hard event to get out of your system. I think the bearings that are in it now are around 27 years old and never an issue.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 10:15 AM
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Interesting. I guess that cutting on a RAS would be faster than a TS. The only limitation would be the width of the wood piece. Thanks for sharing your experiences on this. And just think, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

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post #27 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 10:36 AM
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RAS's aren't really made for dadoes. Do you or someone you know have a table saw? Much better use of the blades.
I remember watching New Yankee Workshop where Norm would use a dado set in a RAS to cut dados across the grain. I always liked the idea that you were working the top side of the board ans could see your layout lines.
Now cutting a dado along the length of a board would be a different (and scary) story.

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post #28 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 View Post
Interesting. I guess that cutting on a RAS would be faster than a TS. The only limitation would be the width of the wood piece. Thanks for sharing your experiences on this. And just think, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Most RAS are capable of cutting 15-16Ē widths. For a lot of upper cabinets and bookcases this more than you need. And you get to see your cut on the RAS.
The one big drawback is you make a dado width permanent cut in your fence. If youíve installed a tape measure on your fence for left hand/right hand read out, you cut through fence and tape.
When dadoing, I use the RAS for long boards and the TS for boards 48Ē or less.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-04-2018, 06:01 PM
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I sold my radial arm saw a few years ago. I bought it new back around 1980. Didn't use it much as I have a full array of machinery in my shop. I put it on Craigslist and after a few weeks, an old fellow came to buy it. After I cut some pieces on it to show it worked, he agreed to buy it. When he went to pay me I couldn't help but notice he was missing all four fingers on one hand. I politely asked what happened and he said, "Eh, cut em all off on a radial arm saw." I asked him if he was sure he wanted to buy my saw and he said yes. Couldn't believe it.
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-05-2018, 10:13 AM
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firehawkmph, he still had six fingers left. Wonder if he still has them. Eleventh commandment- Thou shalt not put fingers against a moving RAS blade.

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post #31 of 31 Old 01-05-2018, 07:58 PM
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My 1957 16 inch Dewalt RAS would cross cut 26 or 28 inches, don't remember which. I had a couple Craftsman RAS that I used a dado on, I just tightened the knob on the side and let it drag to counter the force of the dado. I knew a fellow who had a dado stack come loose with him, luck as the dickens all it did was nick his hand.

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