Is this safe? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Is this safe?

Is this safe to use when I get the guard on? I have never stacked or used dado blades, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. These things are wicked looking.

By the way, Happy New Year everyone.

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post #2 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 04:53 PM
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It looks like the arbor nut is barely on. Maybe you should pull the washer off.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 05:02 PM
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Remove the end washer!

No, it's not safe. You need to have 1 thread showing beyond the nut, so the washer must come off. I don't know what the engineers were thinking, but they were certainly NOT woodworkers. Wood comes in 3/4" thicknesses, so a dado set that's 3/4" wide or 13/16" needs to have more threads than they provided.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 06:52 PM
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It's not great but I would use the saw like that. The nut is made where cutting with it is more likely to tighten the nut than have it come off. I used a saw for years at one place I worked which was like that and I had a dado set on that saw every day. I was making cabinet faceframes where the joints were done with mortise and tenon and used the arm saw to cut the parts and tenon the rails.
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post #5 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 08:00 PM
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Problem is the arbor washer is dish shaped.
When using the full dado set, I use an ordinary flat washer with a 5/8" hole. Works for me.
Cheers

THE GOOD NEWS: You create your own destiny...THE BAD NEWS: You create your own destiny
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 09:22 PM
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I agree with Sanchez. Remove the outer washer and tighten the nut directly on the blade.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #7 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice everyone. The nut did lack one turn to being all on the threads. It is a thick nut and tightens up well. It's left handed threaded. If I do use it, I will replace the washers with flat ones. I wanted to ask before I did something stupid, I don't want to lose any fingers. I'd hate to have to lip a crappie with my toes. Thanks for the advice, I knew I could count on y'all.

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 10:59 PM
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You just have to have some courage. I used to run a arm saw the saw motor would come off the arm without warning.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
You just have to have some courage. I used to run a arm saw the saw motor would come off the arm without warning.
Steve,
I think Id call this something other than courage.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-01-2018, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post

Steve,
I think Id call this something other than courage.
I was working in a shop near downtown Mesquite in the late 1970's which had a new Delta 12" saw and one day while I was cutting parts the saw dropped off the arm and when it hit the saw table spun to the right away from me while I was jumping back. What had happened was the carriage bearings broke in two letting the saw off. It was thought it was a just a fluke and new bearings were bought for the saw and within a couple weeks it did it again. At that time I quit running that saw. They replaced the bearings again and not long afterwards the boss ran the saw and it did it on him. This time the saw left the building that day. From what I understand Delta replaced the saw with a 16" saw at no extra charge. I've never seen or heard of a similar instance but the boss said Delta was soon going around trying to get all those saws back.
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-02-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
I was working in a shop near downtown Mesquite in the late 1970's which had a new Delta 12" saw and one day while I was cutting parts the saw dropped off the arm and when it hit the saw table spun to the right away from me while I was jumping back. What had happened was the carriage bearings broke in two letting the saw off. It was thought it was a just a fluke and new bearings were bought for the saw and within a couple weeks it did it again. At that time I quit running that saw. They replaced the bearings again and not long afterwards the boss ran the saw and it did it on him. This time the saw left the building that day. From what I understand Delta replaced the saw with a 16" saw at no extra charge. I've never seen or heard of a similar instance but the boss said Delta was soon going around trying to get all those saws back.
If that happened to me Id have to change my pants. Talk about scary! I think you were very lucky not to have been seriously injured.
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If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-02-2018, 12:11 PM
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Beyond the thread engagement to the arbor, the real safety question is, "which way are you going to feed"?
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-02-2018, 01:15 PM
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there doesn't appear to be negative tooth angle dado sets for ras, so I suspect you are stuck with that.


since it is removing much more material, it will want to travel toward you at a greater rate than normal. so either be prepared for that force coming at you, or make your cuts traveling inward. both will take care and attention.
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post #14 of 31 Old 01-02-2018, 05:51 PM
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Feed direction...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
If that happened to me I’d have to change my pants. Talk about scary! I think you were very lucky not to have been seriously injured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
there doesn't appear to be negative tooth angle dado sets for ras, so I suspect you are stuck with that.


since it is removing much more material, it will want to travel toward you at a greater rate than normal. so either be prepared for that force coming at you, or make your cuts traveling inward. both will take care and attention.

Always consider the physics/forces when woodworking.

When you pull the carriage towards you, the blades or cutters are entering the work from the top, pressing it downward into the table and towards the fence.... which is good!

When you push the carriage away from you, the cutters are initially entering the work trying to lift it off the table, which is not so good.

The workpiece must always be held firmly against the fence regardless of which manner of feeding you choose, either by a strong grip or a clamp.

The carriage must always be held with a firm grip AND all movements resisted with your bicep muscles and a secure stance. Ya can't just waltz up to the RAS and throw a piece on the table and nonchalantly slide the carriage over it. Bad things will happen.
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Last edited by woodnthings; 01-02-2018 at 05:56 PM.
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-02-2018, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
If that happened to me Id have to change my pants. Talk about scary! I think you were very lucky not to have been seriously injured.
Ah, it was just a little excitement on an otherwise dull day. I think it came down to the way I was trained to run a saw why I didn't get hurt. I was taught anytime something goes wrong to reach for the sky and that's what I did. The saw rotated to the right so it never came at me. I do admit I was pretty apprehensive in running the saw after the first time it came off. Who would believe they would build a saw that bad though.
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-02-2018, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
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You just have to have some courage. I used to run a arm saw the saw motor would come off the arm without warning.
Holy Crap! To me, Radial Arm Saws are scary enough when they're working properly. When I was first starting my woodworking hobby, I got a 12" Rockwell Radial Arm Saw because it could crosscut or rip. Crosscutting was great except when you didn't closely monitor the cut and it would start to "self feed". Ripping was more excitement than I'll ever need again. As if reaching around that monster blade wasn't enough, it would sometimes grab the piece between the blade and the fence and shoot it straight across the room.
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post #17 of 31 Old 01-03-2018, 02:23 PM
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I agree with those who say it is not safe.

Sure, you can use it that way, and will probably get away with it. I agree that the risk related to having the arbor nut one thread too short is low. At the same time, we should also recognize that consequences of a failure could be most severe, even life threatening. Spinning dado blades on a radial arm saw have enough inherent risk without adding to it.

I know the risks, because my first woodworking experiences were on my college roommate's radial arm saw. We did a lot of dados on it while remodeling a kitchen. Every cabinet door had four dadoed lap joints in the corners, and there were lots of them to build. (As an aside, I am not saying that it is the best way to build cabinet doors; I was just following my roommate's lead and that is how he wanted to build them.)

With that in mind, I would take the time to get it right. I would buy the correct flat washer and use it to replace the standard thicker outer washer. Good quality balanced flat washers, intended for dado sets, are available from table saw manufacturers, among others. Search for "blade stabilizers", but I don't know how thick they are. Unfortunately, the blade stabilizers that I found do not include a thickness measurement. They look like a great solution if they are not too thick.
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post #18 of 31 Old 01-03-2018, 04:36 PM
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RAS's aren't really made for dadoes. Do you or someone you know have a table saw? Much better use of the blades.

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post #19 of 31 Old 01-03-2018, 08:09 PM
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They aren't made for ripping either.
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post #20 of 31 Old 01-03-2018, 09:05 PM
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come on fellas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 View Post
RAS's aren't really made for dadoes. Do you or someone you know have a table saw? Much better use of the blades.

I've cut more dados using a RAS than on my many table saws. Here one project I posted here:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/s...ing-ras-47095/



Quote:
Originally Posted by canarywood1 View Post
They aren't made for ripping either.
I've ripped more lineal feet of lumber on a RAS than some folks have on their table saws:
Here's one project I posted here:
Vhttp://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/



If you know what you are doing, you can easily and safely rip, crosscut or dado on the RAS. Ya gotta understand that the blade entering the work from the top is opposite that of the table saws so the forces are reversed. The work wants to lift off the table on the RAS, so you have to prevent it using hold downs AND the blade guard. You have to feed from the proper direction as well. If you climb cut, that is feed with the blade rotation, it will send the work out like a rocket launcher. FYI, I have 2 RAS set up in my shop right now, one with a router on the carriage, the other with a 60 T crosscut blade fixed at 90 degrees. I love 'em. I do still rip on the table saw inside the shop.
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-03-2018 at 09:22 PM.
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