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post #1 of 20 Old 07-02-2019, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Replacing belt on lathe motor

Hi guys. I have an olld 4 speed Walker Turner lathe. I think it's from around the 40s. The width of the pulleys at the narrowest part is a quarter inch. I originally ordered a half inch Accu link belt and it didn't fit because it was too wide. I've been unable to find an acculink belt that is as narrow as a quarter inch. How would you guys suggest that I replaced this v belt? Should I atempt to take the machine apart to get access to the pulleys or should I cut and glue a new belt? Thanks,
Curt

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post #2 of 20 Old 07-02-2019, 11:02 PM
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Get a narrower belt, It doesnít have to be an Accu Link
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post #3 of 20 Old 07-02-2019, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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I clarified my question/concern in my post. I'm asking if I should attempt to break down the machine and the old seals or if I should cut a new belt and mend it back together to avoid taking the machine apart

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post #4 of 20 Old 07-02-2019, 11:53 PM
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You can't mend a belt like that......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtislv426 View Post
Hi guys. I have an olld 4 speed Walker Turner lathe. I think it's from around the 40s. The width of the pulleys at the narrowest part is a quarter inch. I originally ordered a half inch Accu link belt and it didn't fit because it was too wide. I've been unable to find an acculink belt that is as narrow as a quarter inch. How would you guys suggest that I replaced this v belt? Should I atempt to take the machine apart to get access to the pulleys or should I cut and glue a new belt? Thanks,
Curt

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If the Acculink belt is too wide, you really need to disassemble the bearings from the headstock, replace them if need be an use a new narrow belt. The spindle will drive out from one side but look for a set screw first. I don't know which direction it comes out, but look at the bearing sizes to find the smaller diameter one. The larger one goes in last. The flange with the 3 bolts is the bearing retainer plate, so start there. Auto supply stores will rent you a bearing pulley for nominal rates and they should also have the correct size belt when you return the puller. Replace all the "replaceable" parts now when you can get it apart. They will be relatively inexpensive.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #5 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 01:20 PM
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Try a 3/8" wide link belt, works on my Atlas metal lathe, a lot simpler than playing with the bearings etc.
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post #6 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 01:22 PM
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If you're not inclined to do any disassembly, or don't feel that it's necessary, you can by 3/8" link belts (Powertwist, Accu-Link, etc.). 3/8" might fit OK in the pulley grooves.

EDIT: Looks like FrankC was typing at the same time I was. Apparently, great minds think alike.
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post #7 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys but the width is a 1/4 inch in the shallow part of the pullies. Do ya guys think that a 3/8 wide link belt would be able to get a grip in the pullies?

Thanks

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post #8 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtislv426 View Post
Thanks guys but the width is a 1/4 inch in the shallow part of the pullies. Do ya guys think that a 3/8 wide link belt would be able to get a grip in the pullies?

Thanks

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It's always been my understanding that the width of the belt is determined by the width of the pulley flanges at their outer diameter.
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post #9 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 02:02 PM
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Take your old belt down to your auto parts stores. It is very possible that they will have a belt that will works. Try more than 1 store if necessary. They all have different inventories. Also, if you have a Graingers in your area they may have a link belt that would fit.



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post #10 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 02:08 PM
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If the current belt doesn't have model # on it, you can measure it and go on line to find the correct size. Belts are measured by pitch diameter not the narrowest part. Link belts are available from several manufacturers, that's what Google is for. I'd take the spindle out and take the existing belt to an industrial supply house. They can measure and get you a perfect match in a high quality belt. There is a Motion Industries outlet a couple of blocks from my shop, always helpful. You can get high quality bearings and seals there also. Take in you old ones for a match. Industrial suppliers are more likely to get you the correct parts than auto supply stores.
It looks like there are gears caps for the bearings, use them!
It is difficult to tell if a ball bearing is going bad until it is really bad. They aren't all that expensive and as long as you have it apart, replace them. Even if you don't replace them wash them out and re-lube them. Use a high quality bearing grease, Mobil? If you don't know how to pack a bearing, look on line, just don't over pack them. It will cause them to heat. If the bearings are sealed you can still add grease. injectors kind of like a hypodermic syringes are made for the purpose or you can buy a veterinary syringe at the local farm store.
I don't think you would be successful in cutting and gluing a Vee belt.
If it was me, I'd do it right and replace bearings, seals, belt, live center bearings and know it was good for the rest of my life.
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 02:17 PM
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Belts have different profiles as well as widths ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevedore View Post
It's always been my understanding that the width of the belt is determined by the width of the pulley flanges at their outer diameter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
Take your old belt down to your auto parts stores. It is very possible that they will have a belt that will works. Try more than 1 store if necessary. They all have different inventories. Also, if you have a Graingers in your area they may have a link belt that would fit.
George

He would need to cut off the old belt to bring it in for sizing since it's still attached to the headstock.

https://www.regalpts.com/PowerTransm...Form_9806E.pdf

https://mastertoolrepair.com/images/...Size_Chart.pdf


V belts widths:
2L: .25"
3L: .375"
4L: .5"
5L: .65"

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #12 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtislv426 View Post
Thanks guys but the width is a 1/4 inch in the shallow part of the pullies. Do ya guys think that a 3/8 wide link belt would be able to get a grip in the pullies?

Thanks

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The 3/8" width will work, it may ride a bit high, belt grips on the sides of the flanges, the pulley you have is common to both metal and wood lathes, used by a lot of us that don't want to mess with the bearings.

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post #13 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
The 3/8" width will work, it may ride a bit high, belt grips on the sides of the flanges, the pulley you have is common to both metal and wood lathes, used by a lot of us that don't want to mess with the bearings.
Now that's the answer I was hoping to hear!

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post #14 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 07:34 PM
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Here is a photo of my Atlas metal lathe with similar pulley:
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post #15 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Here is a photo of my Atlas metal lathe with similar pulley:
Awesome thanks. Thats reassuring So it looks like the shallowest width is probably about a quarter inch just like mine.

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post #16 of 20 Old 07-04-2019, 06:36 AM
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I have almost the exact same lathe, except mine is not a gap bed. Yours is made to turn slightly larger bowls on the bed side, whereas mine has a rest on the outboard side for turning large diameters. My model was manufactured in 1950. Unless someone put some goofy pulley system on yours in the past, or Iím not reading your post correctly, Walker Turner lathes use a pretty beefy drive belt. I donít recall the drive belt being a quarter inch in any dimension.

Most belts are designed so the top of the belt rides flush with the top of a V groove pulley. The narrow dimension at the bottom of the valley is of no consequence. If a belt top runs sunken down into the groove, it is not correct and has probably been replaced with the wrong thing at one time or another. I'm not at home right now to look at specifics, so I cannot be sure of the cross section of our brand. But since you have an existing belt, all you need to do is measure the TOP width and the height of your current belt, then compare it to any V belt cross section chart on Google or Bing images (look up ďV-Belt Cross Section DimensionsĒ). Thatís the belt you need. Length is measured the same way; on the top cord of the belt. Or get a set of these to have forever:

https://www.grainger.com/product/TB-...e-Gauge-10Y311

As far as replacement goes, it is not always a simple process. The spindle shaft on these old machines is usually both dirty and rusty, and the spindle must slide through both bearings and the four-step pulley at the same time. If you can get the spindle clean and smoothed, youíre in business. Fortunately, you will only do this once since, unless you run it 24-7, a belt will last close to a lifetime. So, if you decide to go for itÖ

First loosen the (4) setscrews and remove the collar from the outboard side of the spindle. Then loosen the (2) pulley setscrews. A good indicator if the spindle is going to slide easily is to try to spin the pulley on the spindle after you loosen everything. If you canít turn it, it wonít slide either (Note: Iíve seen double setscrews on a couple of my older machine pullies. Occasionally they must have installed a second screw in the hole to retain the first one! Be sure you have actually released the setscrew that is securing the pulley to the spindle). Regardless of how hard you must go about it, drive the spindle out left to right. Catch the pulley and spindle as they become free to avoid dinging them.

Bearings removal is pretty easy to decipher- after the spindle is out remove the (6) cap bolts (three over each bearing), remove the caps and pull the bearings out. But again, remember that those bearings have been in there for a very long time. They probably wonít just fall out of their housings. Youíll more than likely need a puller.

Installation is simply the reverse of removal, though you want to make real sure that every trace or rust is gone from the spindle, and all setscrew gouges are filed clean to allow a smooth sliding spindle. The spindle should slide home by hand without a hammer needed. I used a light coat of Never-Seize on the spindle before re-installation.

Also, if you do decide to change bearings (and why not, they are old as Moses and you have it this far apart), I suggest buying permanently lubricated units. Otherwise you will need to feed the lubricators with 30 weight oil periodically, and it WILL seep out the ends and make a mess.

If the bearings are good, Iíd give the link belt another shot. Whatís to lose?

These old machines are just about bullet proof. Good old solid cast iron throughout. No plastic or pot metal here! Once you get it like you want it, there is no reason it canít last a hundred more years.

Another $000,000,000.02 worth of advice,
Mark
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post #17 of 20 Old 07-04-2019, 08:26 AM
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If you don't want to do all that ^ .....

This company makes a 10 mm wide linkbelt:
http://www.fennerdrives.com/powertwi...10/?s=ZnwxNDQx


Another source for link belts:
http://www.jasonindustrial.com/pdf/A...lletin2014.pdf

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-04-2019, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shop_Rat View Post
I have almost the exact same lathe, except mine is not a gap bed. Yours is made to turn slightly larger bowls on the bed side, whereas mine has a rest on the outboard side for turning large diameters. My model was manufactured in 1950. Unless someone put some goofy pulley system on yours in the past, or Iím not reading your post correctly, Walker Turner lathes use a pretty beefy drive belt. I donít recall the drive belt being a quarter inch in any dimension.



Most belts are designed so the top of the belt rides flush with the top of a V groove pulley. The narrow dimension at the bottom of the valley is of no consequence. If a belt top runs sunken down into the groove, it is not correct and has probably been replaced with the wrong thing at one time or another. I'm not at home right now to look at specifics, so I cannot be sure of the cross section of our brand. But since you have an existing belt, all you need to do is measure the TOP width and the height of your current belt, then compare it to any V belt cross section chart on Google or Bing images (look up ďV-Belt Cross Section DimensionsĒ). Thatís the belt you need. Length is measured the same way; on the top cord of the belt. Or get a set of these to have forever:



https://www.grainger.com/product/TB-...e-Gauge-10Y311



As far as replacement goes, it is not always a simple process. The spindle shaft on these old machines is usually both dirty and rusty, and the spindle must slide through both bearings and the four-step pulley at the same time. If you can get the spindle clean and smoothed, youíre in business. Fortunately, you will only do this once since, unless you run it 24-7, a belt will last close to a lifetime. So, if you decide to go for itÖ



First loosen the (4) setscrews and remove the collar from the outboard side of the spindle. Then loosen the (2) pulley setscrews. A good indicator if the spindle is going to slide easily is to try to spin the pulley on the spindle after you loosen everything. If you canít turn it, it wonít slide either (Note: Iíve seen double setscrews on a couple of my older machine pullies. Occasionally they must have installed a second screw in the hole to retain the first one! Be sure you have actually released the setscrew that is securing the pulley to the spindle). Regardless of how hard you must go about it, drive the spindle out left to right. Catch the pulley and spindle as they become free to avoid dinging them.



Bearings removal is pretty easy to decipher- after the spindle is out remove the (6) cap bolts (three over each bearing), remove the caps and pull the bearings out. But again, remember that those bearings have been in there for a very long time. They probably wonít just fall out of their housings. Youíll more than likely need a puller.



Installation is simply the reverse of removal, though you want to make real sure that every trace or rust is gone from the spindle, and all setscrew gouges are filed clean to allow a smooth sliding spindle. The spindle should slide home by hand without a hammer needed. I used a light coat of Never-Seize on the spindle before re-installation.



Also, if you do decide to change bearings (and why not, they are old as Moses and you have it this far apart), I suggest buying permanently lubricated units. Otherwise you will need to feed the lubricators with 30 weight oil periodically, and it WILL seep out the ends and make a mess.



If the bearings are good, Iíd give the link belt another shot. Whatís to lose?



These old machines are just about bullet proof. Good old solid cast iron throughout. No plastic or pot metal here! Once you get it like you want it, there is no reason it canít last a hundred more years.
Thanks a lot man for the in depth description and your time. Ive decided to use the 3/8 Accu link width for a replacement. I would like to avoid taking the headstock apart . The 1/2 inch width accu link belt wouldnt even fit in the pulley. I've included a picture of my motor and the old belt on it. I'm guessing that's the original motor. It appears very old and is very heavy. The existing belt looks like the correct fit. It rides flush with the top of the pulley. The top of it is a 1/2 wide. It's just pretty shredded on the bottom of it.

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post #19 of 20 Old 07-04-2019, 08:37 PM
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A couple of issues......

The Dayco belt show starts with a "5" which may mean it's wider that 1/4" ... I donno? Best to measure both pulleys and see if they are the same width.


Next that motor is only 1/4 HP. not really enough for turning anything but pen blanks. Sometimes the road has a fork in it and you have to choose which way to go.



No one has asked why you are replacing the original belt, so I will. If it can still be used, why not try it for a while before investing more time and money?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-04-2019, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
The Dayco belt show starts with a "5" which may mean it's wider that 1/4" ... I donno? Best to measure both pulleys and see if they are the same width.


Next that motor is only 1/4 HP. not really enough for turning anything but pen blanks. Sometimes the road has a fork in it and you have to choose which way to go.



No one has asked why you are replacing the original belt, so I will. If it can still be used, why not try it for a while before investing more time and money?
Hi woodnthings. I'm still new to wood turning. Been turning bowls for about 7 months now. I've turned about 15 bowls on it since I've had it. 13 if those bowls were turned with a roughing spindle gouge. LOL! Not because I wanted to but because I didn't know any better. I just recently got a sorby fingernail bowl gouge and I love it. It's made a world of difference and is so much more enjoyable. I got a rikon slow speed bench grinder and the wolverine grinding jig to sharpen it. I'm surprised that you said the motor isn't powerful enough for much more than pen blanks. I'm replacing the belt before it tears apart. Like I said, the underneath of it is shredding away so I'd at least like to have a replacement on hand. I'm including some pictures of some of the bowls I've already turned on this lathe.

Thanks

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