Pine wood table top and wax - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 06:09 AM Thread Starter
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Pine wood table top and wax

In need of some help! I have just completed a pine table top and finished it with a weathered wood product then proceeded with a Walnut stain and paint to give it a white washed look then sealed with a furniture wax. The boards were all flat as I worked on the finish over a weeks time period. I then put the boards together with the Kreg screw process, the boards did not seem all that twisted when put together. I then moved the top to the finished basement area of the house as I worked on finishing the base of the table. Yesterday I went to put the top on the base and the entire top of the table is twisted, almost every board seems to have either large or slight twist in it. This is the first time I have done a top without a polyurethane on it as the customer ask for none. I knew that it needed some type of sealer so I went with the wax. Is there any help as to straightening the boards? How would I remove the wax and maybe use a matte poly? HELP! Fairly new to Woodworking but I try to read up and learn everything I can.
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post #2 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 06:47 AM
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You have a couple different problems going on. First you should get rid of the Kreg jig. It's something that doesn't have any place in woodworking other than cabinet faceframes. By using it on a table top you are drawing up the joint only on the bottom. The right way would be to make well fitted joints and glue the top together with pipe or bar clamps putting clamps on both sides of the top. This puts an equal amount of pressure on top and bottom. Then I'm assuming you put all this stain and finish on the top side of the table. On wood the moisture content determines whether it warps or not. It's like you wet one side of a kitchen sponge. It will curl up until the other side gets an equal amount of water. Wood can be the same way. When you saturate one side with stain and finish it causes that side of the board to swell up. To prevent this it's best to do the same thing to both sides of the top. Sealing one side with the finish can also allow moisture from the air to get to one side allowing the underside to swell up. The twisting of the boards has more to do with the wood than anything you could have done or not done. Some boards are just unstable in that way and it's best to get rid of wood like that or use for short parts. The wood may also not been completely dry. You might purchase a moisture content meter to double check the moisture content of the wood prior to building with it. It also helps with moisture content issues if you would build a project and finish it in the same place. Even though you have a finished basement the humidity level and temperature may have been different.

There really isn't a fix for the top you have. Since the boards in the top are warping independently from each other nothing you could do to it that wouldn't affect all of it uniformly. Since the wood may be the problem you probably should make a new top from wood from a different supplier.

Wax isn't a very good finish for a table. It waterspots extremely easily. Unless the table is to be kept from water completely you should stick with poly.
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post #3 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for your quick response! I knew the kreg was going to be the first of the responses! I知 learning and self teaching but love the look and feel of wood...I値l get there! I did the finish on all sides including the end of the boards. ( I have learned that) :). I guess it will have to start the top over :(. Thanks again!
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post #4 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl Sealy Minter View Post
Thanks so much for your quick response! I knew the kreg was going to be the first of the responses! I知 learning and self teaching but love the look and feel of wood...I値l get there! I did the finish on all sides including the end of the boards. ( I have learned that) :). I guess it will have to start the top over :(. Thanks again!
It's understandable Kreg wanting to sell their jigs but they advertise it being used in a lot of applications which shouldn't be done. In your case the screws were taking the place of clamps. If you glued up a table top and just put clamps on one side of the top you could expect the top to warp. You would have had to use the Kreg screws on both sides of the top to make it work. Get at least three pipe clamp fixtures and some 3/4" black pipe and that should solve the problem.
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post #5 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info!!! I know I need to clamp and glue but do not as of yet have the jointer and planers to get the square on the wood I need. For now it is Farmhouse Style Tables I知 working on mostly and this is really the first time this has happened in the 20 or so tables I have built. I did run the sides through the table saw on this particular table top...if I start from scratch and run the boards through the table Saw again, can I glue and clamp even if the wood has not gone through a jointer and planer?
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post #6 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheryl Sealy Minter View Post
Thanks for the info!!! I know I need to clamp and glue but do not as of yet have the jointer and planers to get the square on the wood I need. For now it is Farmhouse Style Tables I知 working on mostly and this is really the first time this has happened in the 20 or so tables I have built. I did run the sides through the table saw on this particular table top...if I start from scratch and run the boards through the table Saw again, can I glue and clamp even if the wood has not gone through a jointer and planer?
I don't really like them but they make a glue line rip blade that would be better than what you are doing. You could make a jig to hold the wood to run it through the saw in order to get the boards perfectly straight. https://www.toolbarn.com/freud-lm74r...A_pmt_b_pdv_c_ The glue line blade would make smoother edges for you to glue together.

When you do get a jointer be sure to get one with as long of a table as you can. This really helps when making longer glue ups for table tops.
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post #7 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 02:42 PM
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I run a commercial shop, pretty well equipped. For all of our solid wood glue ups we glue directly off the straight line rip saw using premium GL blades. Works great and is the industry standard method. That said a glue line rip blade requires more power because it is shaving the edges smooth as it cuts. I tried using one on a 3hp table saw but it didn't have enough power. You can straighten the edges on your table saw by attaching a straight guide to the boards and using your fence. Your blade may not give an ideal glue surface but you can get that with a shooting board and a hand plane after you have ripped the boards straight. Just one pass with the plane and you will have a perfect edge. Remember to always alternate faces so any angular error is self compensating.

Skip the pocket screws and use bar or pipe clamps, half on top, half on the bottom face. Keep the pipe or bar from touching the glue lines or you will get deep staining. If you work fast you won't need any means of aligning other than a soft face mallet or block of wood and a hammer. You can always clamp top/bottom cauls to help align the edges if you feel the need. Just be sure to remove them before the glue sets. A well prepared glue surface doesn't need any means of "reinforcing." Biscuits, Dominos, or dowels can be used to help align but serve no structural purpose.

About pipe clamps: use 3/4" ones unless you are doing very small work. The Pony brand, orange, is better than most imports and will last a lifetime. Use black pipe, not galvanized. The zinc coating is too soft and will allow the clamps to slip. Black pipe is available in at least 3 wall thicknesses. The thicker the stiffer & heavier. Pipes will bow under relatively moderate force so keep them above the work so they don't affect the flatness of the work. A properly made glue joint doesn't require high pressure. BTW there is an old wives tale about "too much pressure will starve the glue line." That is not true for most woodworking glues but is for epoxies. Titebond original works very well. It is best to glue as soon after you prepare the edges as you can.
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post #8 of 8 Old 11-19-2017, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so very much for your response it has been extremely helpful!
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