New business what should I spend money on.... - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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New business what should I spend money on....

Hi guys! I’ve recently started a woodworking business and I’ve had fairly steady work. I started slowly as a hobby a year or two ago so I had some tools already.

I am currently deciding between a HVLP system like a four stage Fuji or getting something like a festool domino.

I have about 1k I can spend currently and want something that will help me with workflow. The other option would be a dust collector. I currently use two shop vacs.

Any suggestions would be great.

I currently own a pocket hole jig which doesn’t get much use anymore. I typically use my router or biscuit joiner.

Thanks in advance

Jordan
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post #2 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 06:35 PM
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Hi Jordan and welcome to the forum! When you get a minute add your location to your profile. That helps us to help you sometimes.

So what sort of projects are you doing? I use a $100 Astro HVLP gun with my compressor and it works great spraying lacquer. What do you usually spray? Which would make the biggest impact to your workflow and product output - a DC or HVLP gun? What other tools do you have?

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post #3 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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I’m in Bradenton, Fl. I’m mostly building furniture. I also install trim, shiplap, and build built-ins etc.

A wide range of things really. Some projects are latex or enamel, and other are stained.

I currently use a handheld Wagner airless spray gun, it’s does an ok job. The problem is I waste a ton of product with overspray though!

I don’t have a compressor which is why I was looking into the Fuji units
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post #4 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 07:22 PM
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I make lots of furniture and have had the Festool Domino (smaller version) for about 10 years. Using loose tenons really speeds things up and eliminates the need for most screws and the subsequent need to hide some of them. If you can find a used or reconditioned unit it would be a useful tool. I use it more than my biscuit joiner. As for dust collection, it depends on what tools you have and the volume and rate they create chips. Joiners and planners really need a good dust collector but you donít have to go overboard. Grizzley makes some that are very affordable and so does Harbor Freight. Used is also a good option, be had my Jet until for 20 years now and bought it 5 years old. If you donít have a joiner or planner then I recommend a dust separator for your shop vacs to make them last longer and maintain their suction. Make your own (see YouTube) or buy one from Oneida, made in the USA and very effective.

That my $0.02 anyway. Good luck.

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post #5 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 07:32 PM
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Logically, safety first....

That would mean a dust collector. Harbor Fright's 1 1/2 HP is the cheapest, but then you can modify it to bring it up to snuff.

Wasting product is not good, so a HVLP sprayer would help.

The Domino would certainly speed up your production.

Your choices are very wide ranging, so it's difficult to chose between them, but the oder I would select from.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #6 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I’m thinking about a dust collector more and more. I’m also wanting to speed up production which is where the domino and HVLP would come into play.


So I currently own-

13” planer
10” table saw
12”’miter saw
Track saw
Jig saw
10” bandsaw
12” drill press
Biscuit joiner
Pocket hole jig
Plunge router
Handled airless sprayer
Lots of hand tools

Things I’d like to have-
Dust collector
Festool domino
Jointer
HVLP 4 stage + turbine sprayer
Larger bandsaw
Jack or smoothing plane
I’m sure there’s more...

As much as a dust collector would be beneficial I think a domino would really increase my work flow. Although I’ve never used one so I’m not 100% sure on that.
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post #7 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Graeff View Post
Iím in Bradenton, Fl. Iím mostly building furniture. I also install trim, shiplap, and build built-ins etc.

A wide range of things really. Some projects are latex or enamel, and other are stained.

I currently use a handheld Wagner airless spray gun, itís does an ok job. The problem is I waste a ton of product with overspray though!

I donít have a compressor which is why I was looking into the Fuji units

One of the first things anybody needs in his/her shop/garage is a good compressor. I had a compressor long before I started doing wood working. Unless you like noise stay away from the airless variety. A Wagner airless sprayer is good for spraying fences around yards and houses.



George
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post #8 of 20 Old 07-28-2018, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Did some searching online and found a 2hp dust collector for $100. Will be picking that up tomorrow.

I don’t have any tools that require. Compressor yet... I’d like to add one in the future for sure. One that would allow for painting would be quite expensive though.

I think I may try to pick up a few used items this weekend and then splurge on the domino and hold off on the HVLP for now.
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post #9 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Graeff View Post
Did some searching online and found a 2hp dust collector for $100. Will be picking that up tomorrow.

I donít have any tools that require. Compressor yet... Iíd like to add one in the future for sure. One that would allow for painting would be quite expensive though.

I think I may try to pick up a few used items this weekend and then splurge on the domino and hold off on the HVLP for now.

What do you call quite expensive? They are cheaper than just about any of your free standing power tools.


A large portable will work for painting if you are not in a hurry. The larger ones in the $250 to $350 range are very good.


You have tires that need air do not you. Ever have to blow dust/dirt off something? How about kids toys? An air compressor is just a handy item to have around.


George
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post #10 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 08:39 AM
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Starting a business you need to spend on what equipment that gets the product out the door. Convenience things like dust collection would be way down on my list. Brooms are cheap.
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 09:59 AM
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collecting dust is not just a convenience ....

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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Starting a business you need to spend on what equipment that gets the product out the door. Convenience things like dust collection would be way down on my list. Brooms are cheap.
If you are exposed to fine dust for an extended period, you will suffer health issues. I did not see a shop vac on the list of the tools already owned, so even a decent shop vac will help. Even rattle can spraying in a confined space can give you a congested throat.... DAMHIKT. Dust masks and proper air filtration gear would be a wise investment. All the production increases won't matter a lick, if you are sick.

Box fans and taped on furnace filters are the cheapest air filtration you can get. Shop vacs connected right to the source are second. A full blown DC system is expensive, but most "serious" wood shops have them. I have 2 mobile Jet units I swap around to the jointer, table saws, planers and drum sanders in my shop. I have 4 Rigid shop vacs that are connected to the RAS, Bandsaws, router tables and one just for floors and hand held sanders. They were about $50.00 each on sale at Home Depot in the fall.

My "small" air compressor is a Harbor Fright 2 HP on sale for about $120.00. It will drive brads and nails and spray clear finishes on small projects with a HVLP gun. I also have a roof mounted exhaust fan to clear the shop of any airborne pollutants, about $70.00 at Home Depot if I recall. It could also go through a hole in a wall rather than tear off shingles on the roof.

So, for under $500.00 you can greatly improve both the safety and production aspects. As far as the Domino loose tenons go, I use a dedicated hand held router in a self centering jig to make mortises for furniture, total cost under $200.00, much less than the Festool unit. You can use it for dowels with the proper size bit. Just plunge down a perfectly centered hole on your workpieces.

If you don't have an outfeed table on your table saw, make one ASAP. It is probably the most important safety accessory you can add to the table saw. It will support your workpiece and the cut off and prevent you from reach around or over a spinning saw blade!
Struggling to support your workpices is not a good idea if they are large, long or heavy!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #12 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 10:12 AM
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Jordan


I'm an old guy that has done what you are doing. I had a woodworking business for 10 years and now I only work wood for the enjoyment of it. Being an old guy I have a lot of experience to look back on and my suggestions to you are as follows;


1.) Build a cash reserve. It is very tempting to spend cash as soon as it comes in on the things you "want" for your fledgling business. And also very easy to convince yourself that your "wants" are really "needs". But my experience has taught me that if you want your business to survive long term you truly "need" a cash reserve. And cash give you options you don't have without it. For example taking on a new job that requires you to purchase an expensive tool to do the job. And more importantly it helps you survive the downturns in the economy that WILL come.


2.) Only buy the tools you need to complete a job you have sold. Or that will speed production for the type of work you are already doing. If you are good at getting business you will find buying the tools you "need" will consume all of the cash you have available. Avoid the temptation to buy a tool you would like to have but do not have a current "need" for.


3.) DO NOT take unnecessary health risks. Did I mention I'm an old guy? I'm dealing with lung issues now because I did not give the attention to safety I should have. And having dust collection in the shop is only effective if you either vent the dust to the outdoors and out of the shop or have a very effective filter that filetrs very fine particles out of the air that makes it's way back to the shop.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 11:13 AM
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I will just say that I spent a lot of time breathing sawdust over the years, really didn't have much of an option most of the time.

Now that I've been doing more casework and built-in work, I've come to value a shop air filter, dust collector and point source dust extractors that keep the shop air clean. It makes a huge difference in your attitude and pride in workmanship as well, IMHO.

You don't want to end up with copd or emphysema ending in chronic health issues and premature death. Spend the money on dust collection if you are running a planer, table saw etc.


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post #14 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodworker's Edge View Post
Jordan


I'm an old guy that has done what you are doing. I had a woodworking business for 10 years and now I only work wood for the enjoyment of it. Being an old guy I have a lot of experience to look back on and my suggestions to you are as follows;


1.) Build a cash reserve. It is very tempting to spend cash as soon as it comes in on the things you "want" for your fledgling business. And also very easy to convince yourself that your "wants" are really "needs". But my experience has taught me that if you want your business to survive long term you truly "need" a cash reserve. And cash give you options you don't have without it. For example taking on a new job that requires you to purchase an expensive tool to do the job. And more importantly it helps you survive the downturns in the economy that WILL come.


2.) Only buy the tools you need to complete a job you have sold. Or that will speed production for the type of work you are already doing. If you are good at getting business you will find buying the tools you "need" will consume all of the cash you have available. Avoid the temptation to buy a tool you would like to have but do not have a current "need" for.


3.) DO NOT take unnecessary health risks. Did I mention I'm an old guy? I'm dealing with lung issues now because I did not give the attention to safety I should have. And having dust collection in the shop is only effective if you either vent the dust to the outdoors and out of the shop or have a very effective filter that filetrs very fine particles out of the air that makes it's way back to the shop.

Well written, especially 1). This is an extremely import item that some business people never learn. That is why you see businesses go bankrupt.


George
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post #15 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 01:08 PM
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I find it hard to believe you are running a production shop without an air compressor and a nail gun or two, that alone would be reason enough to get one to run a paint gun as well.
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 02:48 PM
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If you are exposed to fine dust for an extended period, you will suffer health issues. I did not see a shop vac on the list of the tools already owned, so even a decent shop vac will help. Even rattle can spraying in a confined space can give you a congested throat.... DAMHIKT. Dust masks and proper air filtration gear would be a wise investment. All the production increases won't matter a lick, if you are sick.

Box fans and taped on furnace filters are the cheapest air filtration you can get. Shop vacs connected right to the source are second. A full blown DC system is expensive, but most "serious" wood shops have them. I have 2 mobile Jet units I swap around to the jointer, table saws, planers and drum sanders in my shop. I have 4 Rigid shop vacs that are connected to the RAS, Bandsaws, router tables and one just for floors and hand held sanders. They were about $50.00 each on sale at Home Depot in the fall.

My "small" air compressor is a Harbor Fright 2 HP on sale for about $120.00. It will drive brads and nails and spray clear finishes on small projects with a HVLP gun. I also have a roof mounted exhaust fan to clear the shop of any airborne pollutants, about $70.00 at Home Depot if I recall. It could also go through a hole in a wall rather than tear off shingles on the roof.

So, for under $500.00 you can greatly improve both the safety and production aspects. As far as the Domino loose tenons go, I use a dedicated hand held router in a self centering jig to make mortises for furniture, total cost under $200.00, much less than the Festool unit. You can use it for dowels with the proper size bit. Just plunge down a perfectly centered hole on your workpieces.

If you don't have an outfeed table on your table saw, make one ASAP. It is probably the most important safety accessory you can add to the table saw. It will support your workpiece and the cut off and prevent you from reach around or over a spinning saw blade!
Struggling to support your workpices is not a good idea if they are large, long or heavy!
Sure, a dust collector is a convenience, I've worked the majority of my career without one and I've never been sick from dust. I probably still wouldn't have one except I bought a unisaw that didn't have a door on the front to shovel out the dust. Starting a business there will be a lot of expenditures directly related to making the product. Everything else can wait.
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post #17 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies guys!

I did forget a bunch of stuff I do own. I have two 16 gallon shop vacs, cordless nailers, etc.

I did end up buying the 2hp dust collector today for $100. It should be a good addition! Just need to hook it up to my table saw and planer and I’ll be good to go.

I would like to eventually get a good compressor but I don’t really have a need for it currently. I don’t really do much work on cars and I have mostly cordless tools other than the big items.

I do think a domino would be worth the cost in the long run. Wish they came up used more often!
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 04:29 PM
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Fine dust is a well known health hazard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodworker's Edge View Post
Jordan


I'm an old guy that has done what you are doing. I had a woodworking business for 10 years and now I only work wood for the enjoyment of it. Being an old guy I have a lot of experience to look back on and my suggestions to you are as follows;
............

3.) DO NOT take unnecessary health risks. Did I mention I'm an old
guy? I'm dealing with lung issues now because I did not give the attention to safety I should have. And having dust collection in the shop is only effective if you either vent the dust to the outdoors and out of the shop or have a very effective filter that filetrs very fine particles out of the air that makes it's way back to the shop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProCarpenterRVA View Post
I will just say that I spent a lot of time breathing sawdust over the years, really didn't have much of an option most of the time.

Now that I've been doing more casework and built-in work, I've come to value a shop air filter, dust collector and point source dust extractors that keep the shop air clean. It makes a huge difference in your attitude and pride in workmanship as well, IMHO.

You don't want to end up with copd or emphysema ending in chronic health issues and premature death. Spend the money on dust collection if you are running a planer, table saw etc.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Sure, a dust collector is a convenience, I've worked the majority of my career without one and I've never been sick from dust. I probably still wouldn't have one except I bought a unisaw that didn't have a door on the front to shovel out the dust. Starting a business there will be a lot of expenditures directly related to making the product. Everything else can wait.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Read the Summary on the Bill Pentz site and tell us that fine dust collection is just a convenience.

Bill Pentz is widely known for his expertise on dust collection and health related issues. You can do what ever you want, but you should offer the best advice for others who may not know the "facts". Some people have dust allergies, other to specific wood types, you may not experience any symptoms and that's great for you. However, taking minimum precautions would be good advice for any wood shop, especially where one works on a daily basis as a business.


In the interest of fairness, not everyone agrees with Pentz as this links shows, but reading all the comments is informative.
https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking...pentzs_claims/

FYI, I don't wear a dust mask unless I'm doing a lot of ROS or belt sanding even though I have a shop vac connected to the dust port on the ROS and a flexible hose. Why take unnecessary chances? I do have overhead air filtration, 2 full size dust collectors, and 4 shop vacs in my wood shop. I had a severe respriratory infection that kept me off work for several months years ago and since then I've been a lot more careful.
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post #19 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 05:41 PM
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A high quality table saw would be my major investment in starting a new business. No other machine in the shop is more useful. A good layout table would probably be second on my list. The layout table is no workbench, but much more practical and useful for a true production shop.
An automated screw machine for face frames, shapers for cope, stick and raised panels.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-29-2018, 06:46 PM
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