Modifying DC setup - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 01-11-2020, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Modifying DC setup

Trying to save space for my DC, I had the thought of wall mounting it with a certain jury-rig. It's a Grizzly 2 HP (don't see a model number on it, but year of mfg is 2002) on a cart, single stage. It's 220V.

I thought about mounting it in the corner on the wall with a Oneida Dust Deputy then into a trash can (already have it as it's on my cart) or just see if my already existing Thein style separator works well with it. I'd route the super fine dust out of one of those round eave holes. So it's a 2" circle and I'd have to size down the tubing of course, and I would negate the need to re-purchase my Wynn Filter (it was stolen) AND pose absolutely no risk for inside air contamination.

the Wynn was 170 or so anyways before shipping and the Oneida is 170 as well. Seems like a sweet upgrade unless I'm missing something. If it sounds like a good idea I'll experiment with my current Thein first to see of it's good enough.

I'm wondering how it should be mounted. Does it matter in terms of having the curve of the impeller a certain way? So here's an example of what I have.

The inlet would be going down to my separator (Or dust deputy), but does that have to be a straight downward pipe-to-pipe orientation? Or could I mount the unit on the wall with the outlet going straight to the eaves and the Inlet needing a 90 elbow?
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post #2 of 15 Old 01-12-2020, 01:03 AM
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A very popular woodworking store (R) had Jet dust collectors on sale. I was in a quandary on how to install and what to buy. A sales person at the woodworking store (R) helped me. He stated several facts.
1 ~ You are going to be using only one machine at a time.
2 ~ You are not going to be putting 230 volt outlets all over the shop. (garage)
3 ~ Flexible hose is much cheaper than fixed duct work.
4 ~ Building a wood flour / chips separator is easy and cheap. Instructions upon request.
5 ~ Go to Pennstate Industries and buy their 1 micron bags. (Or was it .5 micron?)

That was about 10 years ago. And he was right. I don't find chips mixed in with the wood flour. The one micron bags (or less) make a huge difference in air flow. They are much less hassle than a canister filter and the ambient air is just as clean.

I made a flour / chips separator from a few 4 inch right angles and a 33 gallon galvanized trash can. The trick is to have the right angles inside the trash can pointing in the same direction. (CW or CCW)

I use the flexible and collapsible hose from the woodworking store, (Rockler). I move the hose as necessary and it takes less than 3 minutes to set up and connect.

I've often thought that if I ever spent 10 or so hours a day, every day, in the shop; it would be a real shop of 1600 square feet minimum and not a 400 foot garage. Then I would invest in ducting, a 5 HP dust collector and electronic blast gates.

Rich
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post #3 of 15 Old 01-12-2020, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Flex hose cheaper than pvc? I must not have looked at that, I assumed that fixed was cheaper.

I'm only putting one 220 in my garage. It'll be for the DC, welder, homebrewing setup, one at a time obviously.
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post #4 of 15 Old 01-13-2020, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
Flex hose cheaper than pvc? I must not have looked at that
If you get one flex dust collection hose it is cheaper than running PVC or Galvanized all over the shop. Then you just stretch it to the machine that is going to be used.

Rich
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post #5 of 15 Old 01-13-2020, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Oh well yeah. I thought you meant flex pipe everywhere. I'm going to make a Jay Bates like miter bench so that needs a constant access. I guess I could have one other flex line but to make it easier to reach everything,. Is suspend it from the ceiling with a retractable cord. Would the saggy cord take away CFM? I thought I read that the corrugated pipe adds resistance
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post #6 of 15 Old 01-14-2020, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
Oh well yeah. I thought you meant flex pipe everywhere. I'm going to make a Jay Bates like miter bench so that needs a constant access. I guess I could have one other flex line but to make it easier to reach everything,. Is suspend it from the ceiling with a retractable cord. Would the saggy cord take away CFM? I thought I read that the corrugated pipe adds resistance
I just let the flex line drape over the floor to the Table Saw and when I'm running the band saw or jointer or router I move the hose to the machine and the separator. Two flex hoses Table Saw for one and the traveler for the other. The connection at the separator is switched as needed.

Rich
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-14-2020, 11:20 AM
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1 the inlet needs to be as smooth as possible, the outlet can have more bends etc before performance suffers.
2 the two inch outlet will restrict flow probably enough to adversely effect performance, best way to figure that out is to try it.
3 been with the bag route for more than 20 years and never have been happy, now working on a different setup to do away with the bags
4 flex hose drug across the floor changing it to a different machine each time would drive me crazy FAST
5 I have 6" 30 gauge steel pipe in the floor trusses not 100% where I want to be but what I could afford at the time
6 currently running a metal cyclone I bought off of ebay(guy from New York makes them) 1 3hp 4 bag and 1 2 hp 2 bag dust collector pulling thru
cyclone. neither dust collector could handle that cyclone by itself
7 I do have the 1 micron bags and am tired of cleaning them, therefore the cyclone, a lot better now, could be better
8 has been a learning experience trying to improve with limited funds every few years
9 do have 120 and 220 volt outlets strung out thru the ceiling, each machine had it's own receptacle to plug into when i started, upgraded table
saw and added wide belt sander, now they share receptacle with planer.
10 have a 40 circuit panel with main breaker to install sometime as a subpanel at which time I will add 220 volt receptacles for table saw and
wide belt sander. This will allow me to turn one breaker off and power down all machines. also will free up space in main panel for house.
11 shop is in the basement and has grown more than I expected when I first moved here.
12 prefer to make furniture not work on shop, however only can afford so much at a time. So make improvements as money and time allow


If you made it thru all that good luck with what you are doing, think about what you can tolerate verus what you really want the end result to be. Everyone has different priorities, wants, and needs. Meet yours and move ahead.

Good luck
Ron
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post #8 of 15 Old 01-15-2020, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. I'm going to do the simplest thing first, and from what I've seen, I'm gonna take a stab at the Rockler Dust Right hose. 4 feet long, expands to 28. That's more than enough to go everywhere. I'll get the attachments for my tools (most already have them built in) and do the moving one at a time. It's 20x20 shop so if I make stuff, I'm usually working at a station for a while. Connecting to the Miter fitting (which will be a hood in the back linking up to a fitting in the front of the bench) will take maybe 5 seconds from the DC. Then if I walk over to the table saw, I still have to plug it in (because it'll be in the middle and I'm thinking of a retractable cord from above) so a few more seconds to move the hose shouldn't be terrible. And it's the cheapest solution. If it fails to be good enough, I can still use the fittings and hose elsewhere when I plumb everything in. If I shell out the $$$ on plumbing and realize it was overkill, I can't go back. Plus Rockler has a sale on that stuff this month.

I'm definitely going to route the outflow outside however. And who knows, maybe I'll make a little box to surround the DC motor and add sound insulation to make the whole thing quieter too.
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-15-2020, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
Thanks for the input. I'm going to do the simplest thing first, and from what I've seen, I'm gonna take a stab at the Rockler Dust Right hose. 4 feet long, expands to 28. That's more than enough to go everywhere. I'll get the attachments for my tools (most already have them built in) and do the moving one at a time. It's 20x20 shop so if I make stuff, I'm usually working at a station for a while. Connecting to the Miter fitting (which will be a hood in the back linking up to a fitting in the front of the bench) will take maybe 5 seconds from the DC. Then if I walk over to the table saw, I still have to plug it in (because it'll be in the middle and I'm thinking of a retractable cord from above) so a few more seconds to move the hose shouldn't be terrible. And it's the cheapest solution. If it fails to be good enough, I can still use the fittings and hose elsewhere when I plumb everything in. If I shell out the $$$ on plumbing and realize it was overkill, I can't go back. Plus Rockler has a sale on that stuff this month.

I'm definitely going to route the outflow outside however. And who knows, maybe I'll make a little box to surround the DC motor and add sound insulation to make the whole thing quieter too.
I just got the Dust Right from Rockler, then quickly ordered another one as well as it is not really very easy to screw on then off the hose from each of the attachments and I wanted to leave it connected to my miter saw especially. I like the hose as it looks like it will last a long time and is very flexible. I think you will be happy with it.

Bill F.

Last edited by [email protected]; 01-15-2020 at 02:14 AM.
post #10 of 15 Old 01-15-2020, 02:39 AM Thread Starter
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So it's too tight of a friction fit? I was planning to have 4" couplers at my stationary tools and the mobile tools will use whatever adapter I need (like a 2 1/2 to 4 enlarger for my router fence).
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-15-2020, 01:35 PM
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I don't understand the several posters that said they were not going to put 220V all over the shop, why not ? When I built my shop, 24x42, I specified 200AMP sub-panel and double-gang 110V every 8 feet on all 3 walls starting at the front by the garage door. I also specified 3 30AMP and 3 50AMP 220V on the 2 long walls and 2 of each on the short wall. All 8 50AMP go to one breaker since I only have 2 tools that require 50AMP and I figured, I would never use more than one at a time. The 8 30AMP are on 3 different breakers/circuits since I do use multiples of those, like DC and table saw at same time on different circuits. My metal lathe requires 30AMP along with my Plasma cutter and both of those have been known to be run at same time. Its not inexpensive but in the long run its cheap to run all that wire and not have to worry later, it allows me the flexibility to move tools around to where they are best suited for the job that day (some never move, like lathe and mill). No more heavy gauge extension cords like my old shop.


Now for a DC system, you want to avoid flex hose as much as possible so having power all over allows you to move the DC around if you can. I have a Dust Gorilla so its bolted to the wall and ducted to various places in the shop to minimize flex hose.

I just play with wood in order to make sawdust, I make the very best sawdust.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-17-2020, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
So it's too tight of a friction fit? I was planning to have 4" couplers at my stationary tools and the mobile tools will use whatever adapter I need (like a 2 1/2 to 4 enlarger for my router fence).
Hi Mendozer. Its not that it's too tight a friction fit, for instance the end on the shop vac side fits like a dream in my 2.5" hose inlet. The 3 other adapters for the hand tools are tight but workable. However, I originally thought I could just easily switch the hose from tool adapter to tool adapter and that's another story. it is not so easy to screw or unscrew the hose onto the various adapters so just be ready for that.

Bill F.
post #13 of 15 Old 01-17-2020, 06:12 PM
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mike yr,

I'm not sure that code allows multiple 220 V outlets on one breaker. I've never heard of it nor seen it done.

DUNNO

Rich
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-18-2020, 07:49 PM
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I just had electric run to my shop by an electric contractor and they put 3 220 plugs on 3 separate breakers in a sub-panel that ran back to a single breaker in the main panel. I live in Nevada

Bill F.
post #15 of 15 Old 01-18-2020, 07:59 PM
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Think about why we have breakers .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
mike yr,

I'm not sure that code allows multiple 220 V outlets on one breaker. I've never heard of it nor seen it done.

DUNNO
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I just had electric run to my shop by an electric contractor and they put 3 220 plugs on 3 separate breakers in a sub-panel that ran back to a single breaker in the main panel. I live in Nevada
This is different than the post above. Each breaker serves it's own "plug" or receptacle. The sub panel serves to distribute the 3 circuits, and also protect the wiring between the device.

Breakers are there to insure there is only a limited amount of current passing through the wires. When that amount is exceeded, the breaker trips and stops the flow..... at least in theory. The breaker wouldn't know or care if multiple devices were on the same wiring and running simultaneously or NOT. I have 2 devices on the same circuit on two lines in my shop. One is on the wall, the other hangs from the sloped ceiling. I find I almost always use the wall receptacle. I don't like fighting with hanging cords. I could easily remove those if needed.


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-18-2020 at 08:03 PM.
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