Miter cuts and gluing - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Miter cuts and gluing

I am making miter boxes out of 3/8 x 6 pine wood and having some trouble. Finished box is 9 1/2 by 2 1/4. I am cutting the miters along the 6" side on a table saw, utilizing the fence to guide the cut. Is this the best way ro should I be doing something different?

I am using the masking tape meathod to glue together. I made a little jig to line up the edges before taping. I find when I lay them all face down, the edges are not perfectly lined up. I,nonetheless, keep the edges against my jig regardless of gaps in the seems. I am doing this so that when I fold the box together the front lines up. Is this the best method?

Also, how much glue is necessary? I am making a bit of a mess, but am afraid to use too little.

I am doing this repeatedly, so I need a good method for cutting and gluing. Help please.

Thanks, Dan

Thanks, Dan

Last edited by dcoledc; 02-27-2013 at 11:17 AM. Reason: forgot something
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post #2 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 11:22 AM
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I use a miter saw to cut 45 degree angles, this is accurate and quick. The tape reduces tear out.

I also cut a slot on the inside of the miter, placing a small flat "dowel" in the alot. It's not visible, and when you glue it all up, the expanding glue tightens the dowel, reducing separation of the mothered corner.

Not sure if this helps, but it works for me.
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post #3 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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I am fairly new to all this. I cannot visualize how the joint goes together with the dowel.

I will try the miter saw with tape to reduce tearout.

Thanks.

Thanks, Dan
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post #4 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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I am a bit concerned about cutting a miter on a miter saw for a board that is only 2 1/4 wide. Any suggestions for safety and accuracy.

For the 2 1/4 on the table saw, I have been using a grr-ripper. Seems to work good, but again my joints are not coming together properly.

Thanks, Dan
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post #5 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 11:59 AM
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It sounds like you are cutting them out in a reasonable way. If you have a sharp blade it should be making clean cuts which assemble good. If you are going to assemble the ones that don't fit good I would use a polyurethane glue such as gorilla glue on those or use nails with the glue.

As far as a mess with the wood glue if you wipe the glue off with a wet rag it won't stain the wood. It will just need some extra sanding as the water will raise the grain.
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post #6 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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The blade is good. I get a clean cut, just not a straight cut. I believe I am out of square somewhere along the way. Perhaps, the joint I run against my fence is not perfectly square, so it cuts the miter not square. I also notice that if I am not super careful, I may rock the board a little as I slide along the fence.

I switched to the table saw vs. the miter due to the tearout on the miter saw. Perhaps the tape will help with that. My only concern is adding another step to the process.

I am making these over and over and will do so. It is something I sell.

When doing the tape method, do I still need clamps or does the tape create enough pressure to make a good joint?

Whoever repsonds please look back a previous questions and give feedback on those as well.

Thanks.

Thanks, Dan
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post #7 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:06 PM
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How about a picture so that we can all see the orientations of the pieces.

Far too often the words used are not interpreted the same by all readers.

I would like to confirm which dimension is getting a 45 deg cut and whether this can be done with a mitre gauge.

A mitre gauge is easier to calibrate to be spot on at 45 deg.

If the length of the cut is greater than the max height of the blade, then you must bevel the blade.

It is possible to set the blade angle to be exactly 45 deg, but you need an accurate 45 deg square to confirm the angle.

Sarge240 is recommending adding a spline to the mitre cut for strength. This will add a lot of strength, but you need a jig since you either have to cut a groove in the mitre cut face or you need to glue then cut splines across the mitre joint.

A thread on the latter.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/d...ine-jig-46902/

Another example of the latter.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/s...mes-jig-44889/

If you are using yellow glue, it is common to have squeeze out.

If you are not going to use splines, be aware the joint may fail at a future point due to the end grain to end grain joints. End grain tends to soak up the glue into the "straws" of the grain resulting in less glue at the glue line.

Last edited by Dave Paine; 02-27-2013 at 12:08 PM.
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post #8 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a picture. Sorry for the quality. Hope that helps.
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Thanks, Dan
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post #9 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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My joints were failing. I have since added a support on the inside of the box. I glue the face of the support to the side and top. The bottom of the box is acutally held on by screws screwed into said support. I need to able to open the box back up if necessary. I have not pushed the box to heard yet with the supports so I don't know if that is the solution or not. I will check the links out.

Thanks.

Thanks, Dan
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post #10 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for all the spelling errors.

Thanks, Dan
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post #11 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoledc View Post
Here is a picture. Sorry for the quality. Hope that helps.
That does help.

So you do need to angle the blade. I would go out and purchase an inexpensive drafting 45 deg square. Plastic, but accurate. Use this to ensure the blade is as close to 45 deg as you can measure with the square.

Yellow glue is intended to be used in joints with no gaps.

I would also use tap on the joints. I would tape two pieces together and use two 90 deg angle supports. I purchased mine, but you can make them.

This is just to show you what I mean. I have phenolic ones which Woodpecker is not presently selling.

http://www.woodpeck.com/clampingsquare6.html

After making two sub-assemblies of two pieces each to make 1/2 the box at a time, I then dry fit the two halves together and will use by disc sander to tweak the final joints.

Last step is to glue both halves at the same time. The 90 deg blocks would now be used on the outside.

To strengthen the box I would use splines if you want the contrast, or brad/pins if you want to have these not be visible.
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post #12 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:21 PM
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When you are cutting the pieces is the point of the mitered end against the fence or at the bottom where it can go under the fence? Sometime the point can slide under the fence in places making the cut uneven. I had a saw one time the fence was 1/32" above the table. When making a cut like that I had to put the fence on the left side of the blade to make the cut so the point of the miter was on top instead of face down.
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post #13 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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I never thought of doing it in more than one step with the clamps. I will try that.

I still have the concern of the cuts not necessarily being square to begin. Meaning, if I align the edges perfectly, the remaining free end may actually be off, so when I put the two separately glued halves together, they will not line up

I have a Wixey digital angle reader to set my blade to 45.

Thanks, Dan
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post #14 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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No, flats are on the fence, not on the table top.

Thanks, Dan
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post #15 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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I have a dewalt 10" portable table saw with a rack and pinion fence.

Just to confirm, the 45 degree joints are good 45 degree joints. The problem is that when I fold the box together, the ends to not match up because somewhere the length of the cut was not ssqure.

Hope that made sense.

Thanks, Dan
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post #16 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoledc View Post
I have a dewalt 10" portable table saw with a rack and pinion fence.

Just to confirm, the 45 degree joints are good 45 degree joints. The problem is that when I fold the box together, the ends to not match up because somewhere the length of the cut was not ssqure.

Hope that made sense.
Then you have a potential issue with the alignment of the fence, or as Steve Neul mentioned, the potential for the 45 deg side at the fence trying to ride under the fence.

This could be solved by using a mitre sled in which case the pieces would register on the front fence of the mtre sled and not the table saw fence.

Building a mitre sled is not difficult. Many sites with instructions on the forum and general internet.
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post #17 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:51 PM
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Did you check to see of the fence is parallel with the saw top? If it was off the tiniest bit it could make your miter cut out of square. Did you use a miter gauge to make the first cut? They are often sloppy enough to throw the angle off. Your saw also just might not be up to the task of making accurate miters. When I was in that situation I made a T-square cheater board and cut miters like that with a circular saw.
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post #18 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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I actually just tried to make a sled and it didn't go so well. How do you make it square when your only cut in the sled is a miter cut?

I have checked squareness of my fence. It seems to be right on. When I place the mitered cut against the fence, it does not go under the fence. It rides along the fence 3/8 up, so not a problem there.

Thanks, Dan
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post #19 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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I used an incra miter gauge to make the first cut.

Thanks, Dan
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post #20 of 25 Old 02-27-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoledc View Post
I actually just tried to make a sled and it didn't go so well. How do you make it square when your only cut in the sled is a miter cut?

I have checked squareness of my fence. It seems to be right on. When I place the mitered cut against the fence, it does not go under the fence. It rides along the fence 3/8 up, so not a problem there.
In your case the sled would need to make 90 deg cuts, common for a mitre sled, but at the 45 deg bevel on the blade.

If you are not able to make a sled, and your fence is aligned and the piece is not slipping under the fence, sorry I am out of remote diagnosis suggestions.
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