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post #21 of 41 Old 05-12-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jredburn View Post
Dvoigt
If you are going to flip the house in five years or less, it would be a waste of time and money to build them. Because you would build them better than most shops would and then leave them behind when you flip the house. You would never get your money's worth out of them. You can buy the stock cabinets out of a big box store cheaper than you can make them. They are junk but they will look OK for long enough to flip the house. Buy them in a box off the floor tho, do not order them from a salesman or out of the catalog as you will pay premium prices.
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While I think it's reasonably true that buying the cheap stuff at the big box stores will be "faster/cheaper/easier" I don't think that's a good reason to do it if you're planning to sell the house in 5 years. I said the same thing about my house and I can pretty much guarantee I'll be in it 7-10 years rather than my original plan. People's lives change. The extra effort and expense will make you a happier person in the home while you have it and add to the value of the home when you go to sell it. Buying "junk" is never a good option, even when you want to flip a house, which is different than living in it for a few years and then selling it.
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post #22 of 41 Old 05-16-2011, 01:04 AM
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Dvoight,

My vote is , build your own.

The kitchen you describe sounds like it could be built for $500 or so in material cost. That's pretty cheap if you don't need to figure your labor into it.

I recently built some cabinets for my daughter's kitchen (half of the kitchen for now anyway) which consisted of a large floor to cieling pantry with can racks, a refer enclosure cabinet with tray dividers, a 7' long base cabinet with a space for an oven and cabinets doors with roll out shelving units inside. I used some nice (but inexpensive) white ash, which when stain looks very similar to oak. They were pretty nice cabinets all solid wood face frames, drawer fronts and frame doors with 3/8" T & G panels, which I resawed from 4/4 ash. I used surface mounted face frame hinges and inexpensive drawer slide.

The total materials cost was around $500. I donated my labor, about 35 hours, I also scrounged around the shop and used up many sracp pieces and odd ball plywood remnants and they are doing the finishing. What they got was some very nicely built cabinets that will probably outlive them. I added some custom touches and details that you just can't buy from the big box stores.

So, the moral to my story is: If you can afford to donate your labor you can probably build some very nice cabinets for about what it would cost for some of very inferior quality from the BB store.

Best of luck whatever you end up doing, Bret
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post #23 of 41 Old 05-17-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by frankp View Post
While I think it's reasonably true that buying the cheap stuff at the big box stores will be "faster/cheaper/easier" I don't think that's a good reason to do it if you're planning to sell the house in 5 years. I said the same thing about my house and I can pretty much guarantee I'll be in it 7-10 years rather than my original plan. People's lives change. The extra effort and expense will make you a happier person in the home while you have it and add to the value of the home when you go to sell it. Buying "junk" is never a good option, even when you want to flip a house, which is different than living in it for a few years and then selling it.


+1

In this economy, I wouldn't bank on flipping a house in 5 years. I got a steal on my house 4 years ago, and here I am now seeing the value drop more and more.

If you're going to do something, do it right.
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post #24 of 41 Old 05-17-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoigt View Post
yea, I was thinking: if nothing else it would be good practice, and I won't care as much if I mess up!

How much do materials cost in general to make a cabinet? 3/4" ply for the cabinet and some red oak for the frames and drawer construction...

I might need to purchase a router bit set and a pocket hole jig, but I'm always looking for reasons to buy new tools!
The BORG near me has 3/4" cabinet grade plywood (Poplar I believe) for $24.95 / sheet currently...

Money wise, I am pretty sure you would be better off buying cheap cabinets, but they will look just that, cheap.... You would be better off resale wise spending a little bit more in materials, putting in your sweat equity and building some nice raised panel doors / drawer fronts, with full extension slide out shelves etc... to maximize the utilization of what space you have...

As far as the concept of flipping this house in 5 years or less, you are far more optimistic about the economy than I am... Don't waste your money thinking you are going to be increasing a home's value for resale at this point. Put the money in to make it more livable for you while you are there... Don't ignore resale and do something crazy, but don't do improvements with resale in mind at this point, that is an almost guaranteed money hole...

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post #25 of 41 Old 05-17-2011, 04:05 PM
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Make Them........I just finished building 11 kitchen cabinets. It was the first time I ever built cabinets. It took me forever but the experience i got and the lessons i learned were invaluable.....
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post #26 of 41 Old 05-17-2011, 10:51 PM
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Make Your Own Kitchen Cabinets

Hi. I was reading your post and I think if this is your starter home, there's no need to buy and install expensive kitchen cabinets.

A good alternative would be to download affordable high quality blueprints that are complete and will enable you to create your kitchen cabinets for a fraction of the cost and still maintain high quality.

Shalisha

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post #27 of 41 Old 05-17-2011, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dbhost View Post
The BORG near me has 3/4" cabinet grade plywood (Poplar I believe) for $24.95 / sheet currently...

Go to a a place that specializes in hardwoods and get your lumber. Stay away from the BORG stores there cabinet grade plywood is trash.
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post #28 of 41 Old 05-18-2011, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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Well for cost estimation... how many cabinets can you make from 1 sheet of 8x4 ply? Seems to me it would make about 2.

As for the re-sell house comments.... I am optimistic I will be out of here within 5 years, I've already been here 2 years longer then I thought. I don't expect redoing the kitchen to raise the resale value, just make it more appealing to potential buyers. All the homes that have sold around me in the recent years have been shortsales or foreclosures so the comparables suck. I just need to do what I can to make it appealing.

My kitchen right now sucks... so anything is an improvement.

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post #29 of 41 Old 05-18-2011, 08:14 AM
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Designing, building and finishing

My last post dealt with the finishing process. Now I would ask you about the building process.
How will you accurately break down the plywood sheets? Table saw or circular saw and straight edge?
Does your saw/shop allow for a 24" rip and support both in and out of the saw?
Do you have to carry the sheets down stairs and will this be a problem? What about a helper?
A router guide/jig to make dados across the 24" width for the bottom and for the upper cabinets would be handy. How's your supply of clamps?
Do you have a brad nailer?
How about a rabbeting bit or dado head for your table saw to set the back panel into?
Will any of the sides be exposed to the room and be visible at the rear so the finished wood runs all the way to the wall?
Can the toe kick be separate base that the cabinets sit on? What about drawer slides...what brand and type?
What style of doors, raised panels with molded details, Mission style?
If you need routed details then there will be some hardwood cost involved, maybe the cost of new cutters and a router table?
And what about finishing? Method, material and space?
The answers to these questions will help you decide what to do as well as what others have said regarding cost...not really that much of a factor in my opinion. The difference between cheap ply and better is probably $100.00, if that. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #30 of 41 Old 05-18-2011, 09:07 PM
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i made my own however i cheated like crazy. i built my house out of cash so it only goes so far.


if you have ever seen a mobile homes cabinets, you open one door and you can get to the other cabinet. well it don't get any cheaper.

i used wainscot and pine to trimitout and some leftover high end trim, it is country inspired and i have gotten alot of compliments.


i built the whole front trim and doors and then finished and installed them on the carcasses that were already installed it was around 500 back then.
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post #31 of 41 Old 05-18-2011, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Good questions Bill, got me thinking a bit, let me answer them:

My last post dealt with the finishing process. Now I would ask you about the building process.

How will you accurately break down the plywood sheets? Table saw or circular saw and straight edge? - combination of the 2, I can't rip handle a full 4x8 sheet on the saw, but I'm ok with handling semi large pieces

Does your saw/shop allow for a 24" rip and support both in and out of the saw? - I can swing that

Do you have to carry the sheets down stairs and will this be a problem? What about a helper? - nope and yep

A router guide/jig to make dados across the 24" width for the bottom and for the upper cabinets would be handy. - got it

How's your supply of clamps? - moderate, would probably pick up a few more. But you can always have more

Do you have a brad nailer? - yep

How about a rabbeting bit or dado head for your table saw to set the back panel into? - yep

Will any of the sides be exposed to the room and be visible at the rear so the finished wood runs all the way to the wall? - The lower cases could have 1 side showing, or maybe none depending on the final lay out. I would have a tall pantry that would have exposed sides in the middle area. Back are all against the wall.

Can the toe kick be separate base that the cabinets sit on? - sure it could be, I think that would make case construction easier.

What about drawer slides...what brand and type? - No idea

What style of doors, raised panels with molded details, Mission style?
If you need routed details then there will be some hardwood cost involved, maybe the cost of new cutters and a router table? - I'm toying with ideas, I was thinking either raised panel, or just maybe a little detail on the edges and a flat panel in the middle. I have a router table.

And what about finishing? Method, material and space? - I was thinking maybe just a water based poly. I have all the equipment to spray and could do it in and around the garage.

The answers to these questions will help you decide what to do as well as what others have said regarding cost...not really that much of a factor in my opinion. The difference between cheap ply and better is probably $100.00, if that. bill


My biggest concern is the amount of time to do them all as well as the general construction method. I know that they are just boxes and drawers, but I always like to know all the details before I tackle a project

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post #32 of 41 Old 05-20-2011, 12:29 AM
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I say build them! Im going to do the same when I get my shop setup. Another alternative is to just redo the Doors and shelves for the time being, maybe build a few new boxes but try to keep the same "boxes". You can even take them all down, refinish them and do some veneering to get a good look where you need. Its kind of the best of both worlds. Just a thought, I'd start over!
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post #33 of 41 Old 05-20-2011, 08:43 AM
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You can buy cheap cabinets at a big box store, but you get what you pay for. Most of them are junk. If you want something with halfway decent quality you will save considerable money by building them yourself. It all depends on the time you have available, the money you want to spend, the skill levels you have, and your own desire to learn.

As others have mentioned, a quality kitchen can be a big selling point in a house.


Gerry
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post #34 of 41 Old 05-20-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoigt View Post
Good questions Bill, got me thinking a bit, let me answer them:

My last post dealt with the finishing process. Now I would ask you about the building process.

How will you accurately break down the plywood sheets? Table saw or circular saw and straight edge? - combination of the 2, I can't rip handle a full 4x8 sheet on the saw, but I'm ok with handling semi large pieces

Does your saw/shop allow for a 24" rip and support both in and out of the saw? - I can swing that

Do you have to carry the sheets down stairs and will this be a problem? What about a helper? - nope and yep

A router guide/jig to make dados across the 24" width for the bottom and for the upper cabinets would be handy. - got it

How's your supply of clamps? - moderate, would probably pick up a few more. But you can always have more

Do you have a brad nailer? - yep

How about a rabbeting bit or dado head for your table saw to set the back panel into? - yep

Will any of the sides be exposed to the room and be visible at the rear so the finished wood runs all the way to the wall? - The lower cases could have 1 side showing, or maybe none depending on the final lay out. I would have a tall pantry that would have exposed sides in the middle area. Back are all against the wall.

Can the toe kick be separate base that the cabinets sit on? - sure it could be, I think that would make case construction easier.

What about drawer slides...what brand and type? - No idea

What style of doors, raised panels with molded details, Mission style?
If you need routed details then there will be some hardwood cost involved, maybe the cost of new cutters and a router table? - I'm toying with ideas, I was thinking either raised panel, or just maybe a little detail on the edges and a flat panel in the middle. I have a router table.

And what about finishing? Method, material and space? - I was thinking maybe just a water based poly. I have all the equipment to spray and could do it in and around the garage.

The answers to these questions will help you decide what to do as well as what others have said regarding cost...not really that much of a factor in my opinion. The difference between cheap ply and better is probably $100.00, if that. bill


My biggest concern is the amount of time to do them all as well as the general construction method. I know that they are just boxes and drawers, but I always like to know all the details before I tackle a project
I think you answered all of Bills questions in a way it favors building your own. All good questions by the way.

The cost I have issue with, maybe it's my location but Oak as much as I don't like it is one of the cheaper hardwoods here.
That $24 a sheet 3/4" cabinet grade stuff is not Oak. 3/4" Oak runs like $50 at BORG here and the same at Brazo's forrest products. Birch is also the same at both, the difference being the Borg stores generally sell trash wood. I have found brazo's here to have very good prices.
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post #35 of 41 Old 05-22-2011, 09:06 AM
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Assuming you have the time and money to build ANYTHING, and the bones of the ones you have are functional, but the faces are ugly, and whatever you do its only for five years before you sell the house....

Then in your place I might save both $ and time by dressing the faces with veneer or maybe buy face frames and doors, but then spend my shop time building something I will take with me when to enjoy longer than five years.
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post #36 of 41 Old 05-22-2011, 11:40 AM
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I have been thinking on this also. And I do not see how it is cheaper to buy cabinets. HD sells a base cabinet for $120, with 1/2" walls and back. and a nice looking front. Their cabinet 3/4 ply is less than $30 per sheet. I was under the impression that a good cabinet would need 3/4 all of the way around, How do they get away with the 1/2 stuff? and even if it took 2 sheets to build a cabinet, you would be saving money.
I am really new to this, so what am I missing. To me time does not count as it is a hobby, not a job. And there is no time line required to be met.
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post #37 of 41 Old 05-22-2011, 11:55 AM
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What you're missing is the whole picture. A cabinet is not made from just plywood. There is plywood, solid wood, fasteners, hardware for the doors and drawers, sandpaper, glue. Then there is the finish, so you need something to apply it, brush, spraygun, the material, the stain, the rags. It all adds up, quickly.

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post #38 of 41 Old 05-23-2011, 11:59 AM
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During my remodel, everyone told me how much money I was going to save by doing it myself. What they didn't tell me is the stuff that Leo just mentioned -- there are a lot of consumable items that have to be purchased for every job. You still save money, but it's not nearly as much and you're more likely to make noticeable mistakes than the pros.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm still going to do as much as possible myself... But that's just because I like an excuse to buy a new tool ;-)

Curtis
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post #39 of 41 Old 05-23-2011, 12:33 PM
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The line I get often is "I went out to HD or Lowe's and was looking at cabinets and I found something I liked but it (was this that or the other thing wrong) and I was wondering if you could build me the same design but in my size (or whatever). The price I give them is likely to be 3-4 times as much as the box store version. I can't compete with a manufacture who buys 1000's of sheets and hinges and slides, who employ workers at low wages and use CNC machines to make parts. While I'm paying $90 sheet for plywood they are paying $40, I have to charge my shop[ rate and for that they have 4-6 guys on the floor.

Custom costs.

If you don't include your time in the equation you might be able to make them for about the same cost as you can buy them. Once you put a value on your time you might as well just go buy them.

But you will get the satisfaction of knowing you built your kitchen and it will be made of cabinets that are the right size and not something with a lot of filler pcs.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #40 of 41 Old 05-23-2011, 12:54 PM
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Here's a pic of new drawer faces and cab doors /same old cabinet just painted.
Hardwood is bloodwood and Honduran mahogany
Flooring 3/4" Bruce jatoba
Did this a few years back up in Hastings ranch CA
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