Kitchen Cabinet Door Repair. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Kitchen Cabinet Door Repair.

I need some advice. I have a sagging cabinet door where the joints have came loose that I need to repair, but the joints have been pin nailed. What is the best way to remove the nails so I can take the joints apart? Or is there another way to fix the loose joints?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 10:07 AM
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I can't see the pin nails .....

if you can drive them out through the other side that's your only hope. Use as small of a pin punch as possible and support the far side with a soft wood. Drive them out just far enough to grab them with a vise grip. Put a thin metal plate under the vise grip and rotate them out.



Using pin nails was a bad idea. You could glue the panels in the frames without too much concern for wood movement if they are plywood. Real solid wood panels probably won't expand that much over such a short distance, in my opinion so glue will work for them also. Glue all the joinery as well. I can't tell if they are just butt joints, half laps or what?




The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-22-2019 at 10:21 AM.
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post #3 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
if you can drive them out through the other side that's your only hope. Use as small of a pin punch as possible and support the far side with a soft wood. Drive them out just far enough to grab them with a vise grip. Put a thin metal plate under the vise grip and rotate them out.



Using pin nails was a bad idea. You could glue the panels in the frames without too much concern for wood movement if they are plywood. Real solid wood panels probably won't expand that much over such a short distance, in my opinion so glue will work for them also. Glue all the joinery as well. I can't tell if they are just butt joints, half laps or what?



<img src="http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/smilies/vs_cool.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Vs Cool" class="inlineimg" />
Pin nailed copes are standard commercial door construction. It allows you to pull them out of the clamps right away.

To the OP. You can't drive them out, most times you can't pull them either even if there is enough to grab. In this case drive the rail up off the stiles, then file the remnants of the pins flush with a small file. PVA doesn’t like to stick to old glue, so unless it was just short on glue originally, you will need some epoxy.
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post #4 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 11:07 AM
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This is not commercil construction...

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Pin nailed copes are standard commercial door construction. It allows you to pull them out of the clamps right away.

To the OP. You can't drive them out, most times you can't pull them either even if there is enough to grab. In this case drive the rail up off the stiles, then file the remnants of the pins flush with a small file. PVA doesn’t like to stick to old glue, so unless it was just short on glue originally, you will need some epoxy.

Pin nails alone will not prevent racking/sagging. You have to use glue and your reference to taking them out of the clamps implies glue, at least to me. I'd never make a door with just pin nails.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Sankovich View Post
Pin nailed copes are standard commercial door construction. It allows you to pull them out of the clamps right away.

To the OP. You can't drive them out, most times you can't pull them either even if there is enough to grab. In this case drive the rail up off the stiles, then file the remnants of the pins flush with a small file. PVA doesn’t like to stick to old glue, so unless it was just short on glue originally, you will need some epoxy.

Pin nails alone will not prevent racking/sagging. You have to use glue and your reference to taking them out of the clamps implies glue, at least to me. I'd never make a door with just pin nails. <img src="http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/smilies/sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Sad" class="inlineimg" />
They look like commercial store bought cabinets?

They are glued, clamped, pinned and pulled out of the clamp table in as much time as it takes to drive 2-3 pins in each joint.
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post #6 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 11:30 AM
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This is commercial grade?


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #7 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 11:37 AM
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Considering you can see widebelt cross grain scratches in the top rail... and the pin nails I'd say without a doubt yes.

Ill give you the that id expect to see inserts / press in holes rather than screw holes for the hinges out of a large shop.
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post #8 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 11:41 AM
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Ok, we'll see...

But I also see ill fitting joints with gaps and wallered out screw holes.
My point is that pin nails alone won't give a good result.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
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But I also see ill fitting joints with gaps and wallered out screw holes.
<img src="http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/WoodworkingTalk_2016/smilies/tango_face_plain.png" border="0" alt="" title="Serious" class="inlineimg" />My point is that pin nails alone won't give a good result.
I agree, that is why there should have been more glue. However you can't leave door in a clamp table until the glue dries unless you want to go out of business. The 23g pins are just there to hold the joint until the glue sets.

This should explain. Clamping and pinning at about 10:30 in
https://youtu.be/25GbUnlOHh4
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post #10 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 03:18 PM
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The OP needs to say how they were built....

If he built them that that will explain a few things. If they were factory built, they did a terrible job. Hopefully, they will come apart easily which was the original question......
Knocking out the pin nails is the only clean solution I have if they can't be pried apart.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #11 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, I meant to check this earlier. The cabinets were purchased from Home Depot 20 years ago. We wanted hickory but couldn't afford it. Anyhow they were expensive, to us, when we bought and installed them. The doors are solid maple.

I didn't want to just do something untill I asked more experienced people. I guess I'll just try to twist the joints apart and hopefully not break the face frames.

Should I use wood glue or epoxy for reassembly?

Thank you Jared Sankovich and woodnthings for your advice and input.
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post #12 of 23 Old 09-22-2019, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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The video looks exactly how they were made.
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post #13 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 08:35 AM
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Stupid question:
Have you talked to someone at Home Depot about the shoddy workmanship? The doors may be 20 years old, but they should have been properly glued. Find the right people and they may work with you to correct the issue.
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post #14 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 11:12 AM
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Jewlers' saw blades resemble coping saw blades but have much finer teeth and are made from much thinner steel. If you can snake a blade between the butt joints you might be able to saw through the pins.

It is not going to take much to slice throug the pins.

https://www.amazon.com/Megacast-GERM...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
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post #15 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
Stupid question:

Have you talked to someone at Home Depot about the shoddy workmanship? The doors may be 20 years old, but they should have been properly glued. Find the right people and they may work with you to correct the issue.
Thanks, but I don't feel like the BS run around they would give me. I couldn't prove I bought them there either. You are right no mistake about it. So far this is the only door.
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post #16 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Hey Packard, that is a good idea. I might get one of those blades. I didn't know any thing about them. It be nice to have one even if I can't use it on these doors.
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post #17 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
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The cabinets were purchased from Home Depot 20 years ago. We wanted hickory but couldn't afford it. Anyhow they were expensive, to us, when we bought and installed them. The doors are solid maple.
those must have been all the rage 20 yrs ago, i have the same hd cabinets with same knobs
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post #18 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 03:37 PM
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Hey Packard, that is a good idea. I might get one of those blades. I didn't know any thing about them. It be nice to have one even if I can't use it on these doors.
When I was a kid I used to cut the profile of George Washington from a quarter with a jewlers's saw. Most times it did not even require dressing the edges with a file (jewlers' files). I could not do that now: bad eyesight, arthritis and lack of patience. But I did several when I was in high school.

I'm pretty sure this is done with a laser nowadays, but you could do it with a jewler's saw and some files:



I actually did a better job than that back then. But I only did the profile (no reefer, no ring around the image and no date).

Last edited by Packard; 09-23-2019 at 03:40 PM.
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post #19 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 03:44 PM
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get some cascamite glue, mix a thin mixture, take a glue brush wipe it on the gap let it soak into the gap keep adding glue until you think it penetrated the gap thoroughly then clamp. Note: casacamite takes a while to dry long set up time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...VQQM9D3SMGHM4W
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post #20 of 23 Old 09-23-2019, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roybrew View Post
I need some advice. I have a sagging cabinet door where the joints have came loose that I need to repair, but the joints have been pin nailed. What is the best way to remove the nails so I can take the joints apart? Or is there another way to fix the loose joints?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I would try first to clamp square the doors, then use thin super glue on the inside of the cabinets on the joints. Use liberal amounts at the joints to soak into the small voids. Let set over night and this should be a viable fix that will not need the delicacy if removing the pins. Tom

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