Joining two panels? Best joint? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Joining two panels? Best joint?

I want to have a go at making a blanket box, but I was wondering what is the best joint for connecting the front / sides / bottom?

The only plans I have found seem to have a carcass inside which then screws to each panel, or dovetails - but I am trrying to recreate a box I have seen where the panels just seem to be directly connected without any inner carcass. It's not mitred, and it's not finger jointed or dovetailed, so would it just be buttjointed and glued? Or would mortice and tenon be better? I have never seen a mortice and tenon joint where the two pieces are panels. Can it be done?

Sorry if I am not asking the question in the right way. Not sure I know the correct terms.

This is the kind of box I mean- on the one I saw, there are no braces inside...the panels just seem to be connected somehow.

http://www.atouchofpine.co.uk/tabid/...2/Default.aspx
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 07:43 AM
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There are a lot of ways to joint corners securely, this obviously does use dovetails. Some methods: dowels, mitered lock joint, bisquits, simple glue/nail, inside bridge, etc., and on. Good woodworking books should detail many of the methods. They are numerous and there is not enough space to detail them here. Some are simple, and some require a lot of experience and tooling.
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 07:45 AM
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Dowels or biscut joints and glue.
Titebond 2 is good and strong. This will make the butt joints much stronger and it's easier than dovetails, miters, etc.
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 07:52 AM
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Ditto

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Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
There are a lot of ways to joint corners securely, this obviously does use dovetails. Some methods: dowels, mitered lock joint, bisquits, simple glue/nail, inside bridge, etc., and on. Good woodworking books should detail many of the methods. They are numerous and there is not enough space to detail them here. Some are simple, and some require a lot of experience and tooling.
phinds site:
http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/person...ineryterms.htm has definitions and examples of most typical joinery methods.

butt joint --- Most formal definitions give this as "A joint formed by abutting the squared edges of two pieces", which of course can mean any two edges, but this seems wrong to me, since the "butt" of a plank is the END, not the edge and in common usage, "butt joint" far more often agrees with my own sense that it means butting the ENDS of two planks. The phrase "to butt up against" is even more vague and can even encompass face to face "butting", so I consider this to be a vague term. Examples:

carcass joinery --- There are two fundamental types of joinery, carcass joinery and frame joinery. Carcass joinery is the art/science of attaching planes (of either solid wood or plywood) to form boxes. This is used for such diverse items as drawers, cabinets, bookcases, etc. Most joint types can be used for both frames and cases, but the types that are associated mostly with cases include dovetail joints, dado joints, rabbet joints, and box joints. Also called "case" joinery.

carcass joint --- A carcass joint is any joint used in the construction of a carcass (as opposed to a frame). See carcass joinery.

case joint --- In general, "case joint" is synonymous with carcass joint but there is one carcass joint that is sometimes specifically called the case joint and that is the simplest type of joint for a drawer front/side; the joint just butts the end of one plank (the drawer side) up against the face of the mating plank (the drawer front). The joint can be just glued, or it could be reinforced with biscuits or dowels. With no reinforcement it is a very weak joint. Compare/contrast to drawer locking joint and end miter joint. The case joint is also called an "end to face butt joint". Examples:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 03-04-2011 at 07:58 AM.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 08:19 AM
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There's several ways to make a box. The site with joinery already mentioned is excellent, as it has pictures and descriptions. Too many that could apply to list here. Take the time to get an idea of what you may want to do. It may depend on the materials involved and the tools and skills you have.

You might want to discuss your project, with descriptions of what you will be using and what look you are after. You will get further help here.








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post #6 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks U8 - I don't have a biscuit jointer, so it sounds like dowels are my best bet. But do you think they would be strong enough to allow the box to be lifted when full of stuff ? Any recommendation on the number of dowels you would use per inch?

@Woodnthings

Thanks for the clarification on terms. That link is really useful. My book covers a lot of joints, but that link has more and also better explanations. So it looks like I was trying to describe a case joint. Good to know.

Last edited by Drillbit; 03-04-2011 at 10:19 AM.
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 11:35 AM
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I always use a Kreg JIg and pocket screws to make a case like that. The panels must have straight and smooth cuts, but after that the pocket screw joinery method is strong enough to be used without glue.
It also allows you to take things apart in case something doesn't fit or some change is needed.

Don

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post #8 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 11:38 AM
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I vote for a splined miter or if you have a good router/shaper, a miter lock joint.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 12:16 PM
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This is the one I would use

You can make it with a router and or table saw. It will have great corner strength needed for a toy box or in your case a blanket chest. Not fancy at all, but better than a simple butt joint. Depending if you want dowels to show that's also an option. Blind dowels are more tricky. The Kreg joints are always an option, but somehow don't seem like "real woodworking" to me. I've never used them but if I did, I may be "converted". bill


locking rabbet --- This is the simplest form of a joint that exists in more complex forms called (1) the drawer locking joint and (2) the double dado. Like those joints, it is used for drawer front/side joinery. Example:


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 12:21 PM
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Since you don't want to miter the corners and not knowing what tools you have, stopped splines would work just fine. Plus you can do it all with one tool - a table saw.






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post #11 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
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I agree with Woodnthings. Locking rabbet is my choice for simple boxes. Only difference is I reverse the front and sides as shown in his sketch. Joint is quick, simple and strong and can be done on the table saw. Dado blade helps but not necessary.
The only thing about it is the picture you posted doesn't seem to show much end grain and the locking rabbet will leave the full end grain showing. Basic rabbet will hide about half of it.


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post #12 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschaben View Post
The only thing about it is the picture you posted doesn't seem to show much end grain and the locking rabbet will leave the full end grain showing. Basic rabbet will hide about half of it.

If you want no end grain showing, a mitered rabbet can also be done on the TS. The OP didn't actually say no to any type of miter.
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post #13 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
... The OP didn't actually say no to any type of miter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drillbit View Post
. . . I am trrying to recreate a box I have seen . . . It's not mitred . . .
You may be right, but what I got out of it was that he's trying to recreate a box that doesn't have miter joints. Maybe he didn't mean it literally though.









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post #14 of 15 Old 03-04-2011, 08:28 PM
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wow.. some really fancy joints.. Oh, did I hear someone mention pockect screws.. Oh, did I hear someone mention "don't seem like real woodworking to me"? chuckle, chuckle.. ha, ha.. hee, hee.. ho,ho.. snicker, snicker... Sorry..Just couldn't resist putting the spoon in and stirring that one up.. On the serious side I would suggest taking a look at pocket screws as a simple effective way of locking the panels together if you are just getting started and are a little intimidated by more complexed joinery .A small jig is fairly inexpensive and if you take care to make accurate straight cuts on your panels and clamp them securely before shooting in the screws(use glue also) then you can have a pretty well built carcass or case or box or whatever.. We here at Weavils"not real woodworking"shop have been fairly sucessful at incorporating many different types of joinery in our products..spline, mortise and tenon, mitered, butt, fingered, dovetailed, doweled, etc.. and oh.. did I mention pocket screws?
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-07-2011, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much for all the replies - some really cool joints were mentioned.

Woodnthings - that joint looks like a winner. I don't have any kind of powered saw, so mitring all the way down a large panel would represent too big a challenge for me - but that rabbet joint looks perfect. Thanks. I guess the strength of the box when lifting will come mainly from the strength of the joint between sides and base anyway...so dowels hopefully would have been enough. But I think of dowels as cheating...so the locking rabbet fits the bill!
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