I want to know most problem about woodworking. - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassidy View Post
In my post above, I'm talking about top of the line equipment that in my experience totally lacks any quality control from the mfr or the US importer
I agree with you there also. I personally think it's gotten to be a "numbers/profit" issue BUT also most mfr/importers never use a machine they produce anymore and they're designed by a engineer/designer whom never used one either. I'm not against college education BUT it lacks hands on experience and our society has pushed that also to NO college ed means your dumb and lower class. I personally think a engineer/designer of any field should have to do actual hands-on labor in the field for 5 yrs prior to being released to openly do their jobs...it would cut out a lot of trash....especially in architect.

I'll use my family as an example...there's 6 of us kids, 3 college ed and 3 not with me being one not....as a whole my family is simple and not above anyone BUT I have a couple nephews from the ed sibling that have made a few comments about me being NON colleged and how everyone should be to survive...after a few remarks I reminded him in front of his parents (on purpose) that this dumb "uneducated" country boy makes more than his educated parents and if he was as smart as he thought he could learn a good trade and make more than them also (they are in good fields) as the trades are dwindling down in quality performers. Just because I get my hands dirty doesn't mean I'm dumb and stupid.
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post #22 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 02:32 PM
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Some points to ponder:

Reinventing the wheel is a waste of time, except in rare cases.

Standard industry practices are there for a reason.

If it works don't fix it.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

You can't fix stupid.

Most problems that arise are because one or more of the above was ignored, and the greatest aggravation comes when someone comes here wanting validation that those principles do not apply to them.
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Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #23 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 03:17 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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There is a third area of problems ...

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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Problems in woodworking show up in 2 areas:
The materials:
Wood is a living, moving material OR it once was living, but it's still moving. So you have to understand how it moves. It doesn't change in length much, if at all. It does change in width under certain humidity conditions. You can't solidly connect pieces together, whether with fasteners or glue, cross grain material to long grain material without issues. Wood planks will "cup" depending on where in the log they were cut. Wood planks may curve or twist as they dry out unless weighted heavily and dried slowly. Wood may spring open or closed when you make a saw kerf, and you won't know until you do it.

The processes.
Gluing up wood planks for a table top is a common problem for some. The planks are not properly secured so they are adequately flat and offsets will be difficult to remove unless you have power tools.
Sawing wood planks can be hazardous if they are not supported both in front of the saw table and on the rear of the saw table.
Sawing large sheets can also be hazardous without adequate support on the front, rear and sides of the saw table. The bigger the saw table or supporting tables, the safer and more accurate your operation will be. Sawing small pieces can be hazardous when not secured OR backed up with a sled or extended miter fence. Sawing planks into thinner pieces will be difficult without a bandsaw.
Routing edges can be hazardous IF you don't follow the feed direction recommended either on the router table or a hand held router. Drill presses are dangerous IF the work is not properly secured OR the bit is too large OR the speed is not correct for the material.

The third area of problems:
Operator Error.
People who are not familiar with the safe operation of the machine often make serious mistakes leading to injury. Machines operate on the Principles of Physics, there are loads, strength of materials, rotational and straight line forces etc. If you ignore or violate those Priciples you will have issues like kickbacks, spinning workpieces, flesh cutting injuries, etc. There are 2 ways to learn the safe operation of machines, proper instruction either first hand or from reputable sources OR make mistakes and learn from them. The second means is NOT the preferred method! :frown2:

Accidents are preventable, while stupidity is not, maybe not even curable... just sayin'

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #24 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 07:38 PM
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Cassidy, "I'm talking about top of the line equipment that in my experience totally lacks any quality control from the mfr or the US importer."
Your opinion of top of the line tools is very different than mine. When I can I buy the best or more often the best I can afford. That often entails buying used.
Top of the line tools often include excellent support from the manufacturer, part of the price.
Some of my tools/brands that I consider excellent, not sure they qualify as "top of the line." Omga miter saw, Schelling panel saw, Weinig molder, Gannomat case clamp, Hoffmann dovetail machine, Doucet drawer clamp, Incra router lift, Komo router, Lamello plate joiner, Festool hand held mortise. All of these are imports except the router!
How many of these tools do you have experience with and you consider to lack quality control?
If you are only talking about consumer level tools, that is a totally different animal.
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post #25 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 08:21 PM
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[QUOTE=cassidy;1540266]1. There needs to be more quality control in manufacture of power tools such as bandsaws, etc. Some manufacturers have quality control but others don't which can create multiple problems trying to get new equipment to run properly.
2. There needs to be an industry standard for vacuum tubing/fixtures for sucking up sawdust from power equipment - the diameter sizes of the tubing should be standardized (made all the same) since now it is difficult to match them - they often don't fit together.
sonable cos3. The cost of hardwood has increased dramatically in the last decades - need reforestation of hardwood to allow an adequate supply at a reat.[OTE]/QU

" The cost of hardwood has increased dramatically in the last decades - need reforestation of hardwood to allow an adequate supply at a rea"

This might be of some help to our great grandchildren. Maybe the grandchildren in their later years. If they even do woodworking in those years.

George
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post #26 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 08:27 PM
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Not knowing the full panoply of products that are available to accomplish many routine tasks. Limited by the things I know.

Is Diego ever coming back?
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post #27 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 09:00 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Most of us are "hobbiest" woodworkers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Schweitzer View Post
.......

Top of the line tools often include excellent support from the manufacturer, part of the price.
Some of my tools/brands that I consider excellent, not sure they qualify as "top of the line." Omga miter saw, Schelling panel saw, Weinig molder, Gannomat case clamp, Hoffmann dovetail machine, Doucet drawer clamp, Incra router lift, Komo router, Lamello plate joiner, Festool hand held mortise. All of these are imports except the router!
How many of these tools do you have experience with and you consider to lack quality control?
If you are only talking about consumer level tools, that is a totally different animal.
Larry, your list of tools is beyond the means of most woodworkers here and exceeds the performance most of us require. For example a lot of my tools are Craftsman both vintage and newer, Dewalt, Porter Cable, Bosch and Grizzly. I have a Min Max 13" combo planer/jointer and a 12" Powermatic 5 HP table saw which I would consider "professional grade" but that's it. Obviously you are a Pro and have the tools you need for production work. I think it's great you have decided to join us because you add a whole different perspective to the forum. There may be about 10 "pros" who contribute here at this point who make a living strictly doing woodworking.

Competition over the years for the consumer power tool market has led to both good and not so good results. The battery powered tools are exponentially better now than when they first came out. The cheap portable table saws are at the opposite end of the quality spectrum and in some cases just plain unsafe. Early tools were very overbuilt with the heaviest of castings and thicknesses. Competition made lowering the cost a priority so quality suffered to some extent depending on the brand. You will still get a quality tool from Powermatic, but you will pay about double that of a lesser grade tool.

This discussion has kinda gotten off the track a bit in my opinion from the original question about "problems with woodworking".
Quality issues with tools are not really anything that can be addressed by an individual woodworker or student. Buyer beware and you get what you pay for combine to make your purchase a wise decision ... or NOT!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-24-2016 at 11:15 PM.
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post #28 of 34 Old 12-24-2016, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
...
Competition over the years for the consumer power tool market has led to both good and not so good results. The battery powered tools are exponentially better now than when they first came out...
I sided my house this summer. Stripped the old siding, insulated and added vinyl (vinyl is final).

My retired cousin helped. He was shocked at how long the lithium batteries lasted, so much so that he mentioned it. He is a guy that isn't impressed by much.
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post #29 of 34 Old 12-25-2016, 12:26 AM
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Here's another thought...

Most woodworkers who are passionate take the time to educate themselves on the materials and the processes to work with them properly. But the wisdom to do so only comes from experience.

A good friend of mine put it this way (he is a pastor for the Lutheran church)...

Education is knowing which street to walk down to get to where you need to go...
Wisdom is knowing which side of the street to walk on!



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post #30 of 34 Old 12-25-2016, 01:41 AM
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Patience.....

Amazing those that think tooling is everything..........
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post #31 of 34 Old 12-25-2016, 02:02 AM
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This actually happened about two weeks ago..

They hired a cabinet man to help me. We where putting 45 degree angles on tables. He was wrapping tables and said one was short. I told him to replace it. He said he would wood putty it.

He now works in a different department...
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Last edited by Rebelwork; 12-25-2016 at 02:07 AM.
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post #32 of 34 Old 12-25-2016, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much everyone

I need to say VERY VERY THANKS !!!!

I receive many help from great community, and a lot of information.

Best Regards,
Diego

I'll never forget this help.
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post #33 of 34 Old 12-25-2016, 05:40 PM
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If I could solve #1, the other two would be no problem.

A diamond is how coal reacts under pressure.
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post #34 of 34 Old 12-26-2016, 03:52 PM
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A couple of points I would like to clarify:

(1) Just to clarify, my concept of quality control is that manufacturer check to be sure that the functions of the power equipment they sell are operating correctly before they release the product for shipment. For example, for a new 14" bandsaw I bought (115" blade) for over $1400 with a well known brandname from a well-know retail woodworking store, (a) the blade tension lever would now work (had to take it apart and reassemble; I checked their floor model which also had the same problem), (b) the power worked for a while then would not start - called the mfr and we determined it was the brake foot pedal cutoff switch had not been installed properly - I adjusted it and it started fine (the well know retail seller - a woodworking specialty shop - did not even know it had a cutoff switch), (c) a rip fence that was not vertically square and was off by 1/8" (the very small allen screws that adjusted this were hardly visible and the bandsaw manual did not identify that these adjustment screws even existed in this model; I checked the floor model at the retail woodworking retail specialty store and it had the same problem). These are some of the problems that in my opinion would not have occurred if the mfr (at the overseas source or at the mfr itself) did any quality control at all.

(2) Consistently, for several of the power tools I have bought recently (am outfitting a new shop; 220v 8" jointer, floor standing drill press, table saw (a very safe good one), large floor standing lathe, floor standing bandsaw, disc sander, router table/lift/fence, planer, high quality dust collection system, etc) (this isn't Home Depot stuff), the owner's manuals that come with the model of equipment have not been updated and do not include provisions/descriptions of all of the functions of the equipment. The mfr has chosen not to update the manual for the new model, and sometimes the owners manual are for older models and do not cite the new model at all since it would cost them to do so.

I grew up in Oregon (not there now) and started work in lumber mills at an early age and have been building what I consider high quality hardwood furniture for well over 45 years since I was 16, so though I am not a professional in that I do not sell my work, I consider myself fairly experienced. For my new shop, I have been disappointed in the quality control for some but not all the new equipment I have recently purchased.
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