I need help with a jointed problem - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ron_J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 417
View Ron_J's Photo Album My Photos
I need help with a jointed problem

So, I can't seem to figure out my jointer problem. I am getting a bow in the middle. About 1/32 in a 4' board. I might be able to live with that, but butt two together and 1/16 is too much.

I don't know if it's me or the equipment. First the equipment...its a 6" craftsman with 29" bed. I've checked to make sure the infeed and out feed beds are even....at least as close as I can measure.

I've tried putting pressure on the in feed side, tried transferring pressure to the out side....nothing seems to matter.

Is it just that I'm trying to do too long of board for the jointer? If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.
Ron_J is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 01:10 PM
J_L
Senior Member
 
J_L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 253
View J_L's Photo Album My Photos
I've a similar jointer and at times experience similar results. When that happens I'll usually hit one of the high ends with a block plane then do another clean up pass on the jointer and I'm good to go.
J_L is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 01:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Troy Michigan USA
Posts: 932
View gmercer_48083's Photo Album My Photos
gmercer_48083 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 02:21 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,932
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
short tables will give that issue

Here's why. The far end of the board reaches the end of the table and begins to droop down following any curve previously in the board. The only contact is the end of the table now and it follows the curve.

The solution is to support the board on rollers or a flat platform which I prefer. Care must be taken to insure the support is dead level with the outfeed table. The rollers have been removed from these and a wide plank is used instead:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
post #5 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 03:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_L View Post
I've a similar jointer and at times experience similar results. When that happens I'll usually hit one of the high ends with a block plane then do another clean up pass on the jointer and I'm good to go.
Since the jointer is essentially a motorized plane, why not hit just the high end on the jointer?

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,991
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
That problem could be caused by the knives being slightly below the rear table.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ron_J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 417
View Ron_J's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
That problem could be caused by the knives being slightly below the rear table.
Interesting. I don't think I check that.
Ron_J is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Maylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Central Connecticut
Posts: 1,147
View Maylar's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Since the jointer is essentially a motorized plane, why not hit just the high end on the jointer?
Some folks do that, taking cuts from each end of the board and working toward the middle. But you get tearout on the end that's cutting against the grain, and the board being longer than the infeed table still gives you a concave result. I find it much easier and waste less time and stock if I plane the ends with a bench plane and check with a straightedge before doing a final pass on the jointer.

Dave in CT, USA
Maylar is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ron_J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 417
View Ron_J's Photo Album My Photos
Well, I think my problem is two fold.

Here is my procedure for squaring up a board.

First, I run the rough edge on the jointer to get something fairly straight. Then I take it to the table saw and rip a good edge, using the just jointed edge against the fence. Run that edge on the jointer and then use that good edge to rip the board to size. I know it's a lot of extra steps, but I have had no luck squaring up a 4' board on this jointer.

In the process of this, I happened to put a straight edge on the fresh cut from the table saw, and lo and behold, it was bowed. After a little more looking, it turns out my fence is bowed. It must only show up on the longer boards, cause I never noticed it before.

I put a straight board on the fence and followed the same procedure and got good edges on 7 of the 8 boards. I'd guess the 8th was pilot error.

I know the jointer is too small to effectively square a board that long, but unfortunately thats all I have for now.

I'll keep the suggestions in mind, and see about the height of the knives.
Ron_J is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maylar View Post
Some folks do that, taking cuts from each end of the board and working toward the middle. But you get tearout on the end that's cutting against the grain, and the board being longer than the infeed table still gives you a concave result. I find it much easier and waste less time and stock if I plane the ends with a bench plane and check with a straightedge before doing a final pass on the jointer.
If the board is concave in the middle, I like to start in the middle with my jointer cut and work out to the ends. This is the same as I would do with a hand plane.
It really doesnít matter which way we choose, the results are the same.
I can set my depth of cut on my jointer to take no more off than a hand plane would in one pass. So there is no more waste than with a hand plane. As for time, itís much quicker on the jointer.
I have about 7 hand planes but if start on the jointer, I stay on the jointer until Iím flat. My 6Ē jointer does have a good long bed which is helpful.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:55 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,932
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
curves everywhere ....

Your fence must be straight and if it's too short and you run a curved board against it the same identical thing will happen as on the jointer as I explained above. The board must have constant contact with the entire length of the fence, not just two point like in a concave curve. It will only follow that same curve.

I gave up trying to joint long boards on a jointer years ago. I only had a short bed Craftsman 6" jointer which was fine for boards 3 ft long or so. I made my own version of a board straightening jig after watching You tube videos. My jig/sled requires that I maintain constant contact with the straight edge against the fence. Here's what it looks like:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/b...ble-saw-16999/


http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/s...rip-jig-40532/



My buddy who make custom doors, uses a sled with a 8 ft steel bar that fits in the miter slot on his cabinet saw. He uses 36 grit sandpaper on the entire sled surface to hold the heavy 2" and thicker planks, no toggle clamps. Nothing moves when he's ripping the edges off.

This method save tons of time trying to straighten the curves off rough saw lumber.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 05-12-2018 at 05:05 PM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #12 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 04:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,991
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_J View Post
Interesting. I don't think I check that.
When a jointer knife is slightly too low it can cause the board to lift up and ride up over the rear table and since you are holding it down at the front of the board it makes the board curved.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 06:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Maylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Central Connecticut
Posts: 1,147
View Maylar's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
If the board is concave in the middle, I like to start in the middle with my jointer cut and work out to the ends. This is the same as I would do with a hand plane.
Every time I've tried that I get a tapered board and lose a lot of wood.

But, whatever works.

Dave in CT, USA

Last edited by Maylar; 05-12-2018 at 06:45 PM.
Maylar is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 05-12-2018, 09:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maylar View Post
Every time I've tried that I get a tapered board and lose a lot of wood.

But, whatever works.
Keep practicing

The jointer was made to take the place of hand planing. If you walk through a high production factory, you may not even see a hand plane.
Not to be a smart alec but if you can’t mark the start of a low spot, how would you use a hand plane? The same prinipals are used with Hand tool or machine. The hand plane can do the work of the jointer. The jointer is faster with less effort.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?

Last edited by Toolman50; 05-12-2018 at 09:09 PM.
Toolman50 is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 05-13-2018, 01:52 AM
Ancient Termite
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Posts: 529
View NoThankyou's Photo Album My Photos
I have had many boards that start as you described, a bow.

The trick is to feed lightly. You don't want to distort the board when feeding it through the jointer. Just feed lightly and you'll take a bit off the leading edge and a bit off the trailing edge. After several passes you'll take a bit off the entire board, then stop.

IIRC my jointer is set so that the knives are even with the outfeed table and the infeed table is between 1/64 and 1/32 lower than the outfeed. (0.4 to 0.8 mm)

Rich
In furniture 1/32" is a Grand Canyon
NoThankyou is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 05-13-2018, 10:17 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,991
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maylar View Post
Every time I've tried that I get a tapered board and lose a lot of wood.

But, whatever works.
I think what you might be missing is you turn the board 180 degrees with each cut so you are only cutting the end of the board until you get it straight. Then make an end to end pass with the jointer.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 05-13-2018, 10:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Maylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Central Connecticut
Posts: 1,147
View Maylar's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Keep practicing
I've had my jointer for some 35 years, and I gotta say it's the most frustrating machine to learn how to use properly. I wouldn't give it up though.

Quote:
The jointer was made to take the place of hand planing. If you walk through a high production factory, you may not even see a hand plane.
Yuh, big azz machines with a mile long bed. Mine's 42" and suffers from the "droopy" syndrome the OP is experiencing.

Quote:
Not to be a smart alec but if you canít mark the start of a low spot, how would you use a hand plane? The same prinipals are used with Hand tool or machine. The hand plane can do the work of the jointer. The jointer is faster with less effort.
Which is why I own one. But having a board between bench dogs and being able to quickly check with a straight edge and winding sticks lets me rough stock to the point where one pass on the jointer finishes it up. In the end - for me - it's been less frustrating than trying to correct a bow on the machine.

Next project, I'll try it your way...

Dave in CT, USA
Maylar is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help with Ring Boor bell compatibility problem Sleeper Off Topic 13 03-25-2018 10:52 AM
Craftsmans Table Saw #113 Motor Problem Pinger Power Tools & Machinery 1 05-02-2017 11:21 AM
Trying to Finish a Volunteer Project - Refinishing Hardwood Floors - Run Into Problem jpersonette11 General Woodworking Discussion 1 10-01-2016 07:39 PM
New here! Problem with color transfer even after shellac PattyG General Woodworking Discussion 6 12-25-2015 04:01 AM
Infuriating plane problem GISer3546 Hand Tools 5 08-31-2015 03:14 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome