I hate picture frames... - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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I hate picture frames...

I figure just about every woodworker has a nemesis project of some kind, something that you just can't seem to master even after about a dozen or so, and I'm embarrassed to say that mine happens to be picture frames. Either the darn miters don't square, the joints pull, the backing or matting won't stay, something reliably goes wrong every time I try a simple stinking frame...

Until this time...I finally built the perfect frame...nice and square, the pattern is perfect, the depth is right, the joints are rock solid...but the stupid glass pane won't fit. It's not a sizing issue, everything fits to a T, and in fact everything is just a little too precise. Everything is square, there's no warping issue and all my lines are straight, but the glass just refuses to go into the frame. I think it's hung up on every conceivable inch and I've sanded and chiseled and hand planed and cussed until I'm pulling my hair out, but the darn thing just won't go...

So 2 questions:

First, anybody got any suggestions? A router isn't an option, but I'm willing to try just about anything at this point. Also, there is no backup pane of glass available and it's for a Christmas present this weekend, so time is somewhat limiting.

Second, what's your nemesis project? I may be the only one, considering the overall skill level of the community, but I'm curious if there's anybody else with this frustration.

"I was going for rustic" is just my way of saying I screwed the pooch on the finish...
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 05:51 AM
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"no backup pane of glass available"

No Hobby Lobby, Joanne's or Michael's around you? Or Ace or True Value, etc.?
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post #3 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avickers89 View Post
I figure just about every woodworker has a nemesis project of some kind, something that you just can't seem to master even after about a dozen or so, and I'm embarrassed to say that mine happens to be picture frames. Either the darn miters don't square, the joints pull, the backing or matting won't stay, something reliably goes wrong every time I try a simple stinking frame...

Until this time...I finally built the perfect frame...nice and square, the pattern is perfect, the depth is right, the joints are rock solid...but the stupid glass pane won't fit. It's not a sizing issue, everything fits to a T, and in fact everything is just a little too precise. Everything is square, there's no warping issue and all my lines are straight, but the glass just refuses to go into the frame. I think it's hung up on every conceivable inch and I've sanded and chiseled and hand planed and cussed until I'm pulling my hair out, but the darn thing just won't go...

So 2 questions:

First, anybody got any suggestions? A router isn't an option, but I'm willing to try just about anything at this point. Also, there is no backup pane of glass available and it's for a Christmas present this weekend, so time is somewhat limiting.

Second, what's your nemesis project? I may be the only one, considering the overall skill level of the community, but I'm curious if there's anybody else with this frustration.
When you make any frame containing glass it should be sized to where it rattles a little. Should the wood frame shrink a little if you have it too tight the glass would either be stuck in there permanently or worse cause the joint to break open.

From where you are if you have a belt sander and some old belts you could grind enough off the glass to get it in the frame.
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 07:54 AM
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"It's not a sizing issue, everything fits to a T, and in fact everything is just a little too precise. Everything is square, "

Yes, it is a sizing issue. You either built the frame too small or the sheet of glass was cut too large.

What Steve says can be done if there is not too much glass that has to be removed. It is a very delicate operation and you have to be careful not to break the glass and/or get cut.

You must really live out in the country if you cannot get another pane of glass cut.

I would present the frame and explain that the glass will be added as soon as one can be purchased.

George
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post #5 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 08:16 AM
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I always oversize the frame rabbet by 1/16" to allow for any glass irregularities.
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 09:34 AM
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Could you use a utility knife to widen the rabbet a tinch?
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 10:13 AM
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You really have no other options if you want to use the glass you already have. Keep chiseling or planing until it fits. You only have to do two sides. Who cares if the glass is perfectly centered.

And now you've learned to make the rabbet bigger than the glass.
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post #8 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 10:14 AM
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agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
I always oversize the frame rabbet by 1/16" to allow for any glass irregularities.

If the glass won't fit now, you will need to remove 1/16" from 2 sides, or 1/32" from, all sides of either the glass OR the frame.

I would use a router in a table on the frame. Hand chiseling will be tough but do-able. Only a diamond wheel will grind the glass any smaller in my experience making stained glass art, so you are stuck modifying the frame. A rabbeting plane would work, but you probably don't have one of those either.

An alternative would be using the table saw. You could set the blade at the correct height and just 1/16" over, BUT you will have to make fence stops at the front and rear for the inside of the frame to avoid cutting too much because of the blade's radius. It is the solution of "last resort" in my opinion, and will still require some hand chiseling. :frown2:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 05:10 PM
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I just made a bunch of picture frames for christmas and ended up using acrylic; didn't have a fitment issue but I did wait until I had the acrylic in hand along with the matting to make sure my rabbet measurements were correct.

As far as the miters, you'd be surprised what a little glue and sawdust can hide.
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post #10 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcsmoke View Post
you'd be surprised what a little glue and sawdust can hide.
It can hide an awful lot!

God I love Trigger. Inferno Cop is exactly the sort of idiocy they do, It's what makes them so cool. Met them all, great guys.

Last edited by WeebyWoodWorker; 12-20-2017 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Fixed it
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 09:53 PM
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I like picture frames personally, I just picked up some scrap mahogany moulding and plan on making a nice frame out of it. It can be a pain to correctly size frames sometimes, I have a bunch of posters I need to make fancy frames for and I know it would to take a bit of finagling to get the edges in perfect. So to solve that I'm making the frames about and inch or so wider and taller than they need to be. Put in a black background and center the poster so it's even on all sides. As everyone else already said it's better to make them a little bit bigger than what you really need.

God I love Trigger. Inferno Cop is exactly the sort of idiocy they do, It's what makes them so cool. Met them all, great guys.
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-20-2017, 09:54 PM
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Everything is hidden! Carve away, dude. We get 10-15 container trains per day and the tracks are 2 blocks west.
All my picture glass is loose! Everything rattles. Every computer monitor shakes like you get to sea sick.
The whole village sits on glacial clay that shakes like jelly!

Plan B. "Ray M." lives a block away. He had a framing shop. In retirement, he still messes with it.
Go see Uncle Ray and please do sleep well.
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-21-2017, 03:31 AM
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Yeah, it is a sizing issue. If it were sized correctly, the glass would go in easily. No mystery there. A sharp 1/2" or 3/4" wide chisel can be used to scrape the inner edges of the rabbet to widen them slightly. Then they can be sanded to smooth the scraping. Been there, done that.
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-21-2017, 10:16 AM
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Just a little bit of something to be aware of when buying cut pieces of glass..you'll always pay for the original size of the glass before they cut it..
For example if the original piece is 4' x 8' but the piece you need is just 4" x 8" you'll end up paying for the 4' x 8' piece. Now of course most glass places keep smaller pieces available and just keep charging from larger to smaller..
I used to run a small window repair side business and bought lots of glass over the years..

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-21-2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allpurpose View Post
Just a little bit of something to be aware of when buying cut pieces of glass..you'll always pay for the original size of the glass before they cut it..
For example if the original piece is 4' x 8' but the piece you need is just 4" x 8" you'll end up paying for the 4' x 8' piece. Now of course most glass places keep smaller pieces available and just keep charging from larger to smaller..
I used to run a small window repair side business and bought lots of glass over the years..
How do you figure this? The glass is charged by the square foot.
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-21-2017, 12:35 PM
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I think you're both saying the same thing. Charge by square foot = charge by original size.

The glass shop I use charges by the size of the original glass sheet before it's cut to your size. I just bought safety glass for my shed doors. Each piece was 19-1/8" x 21-5/8". They started with and charged me for a 24"x24" piece.
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