How to remove spur center in head stock - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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How to remove spur center in head stock

Hi guys. I'm trying to remove the spur center in the headstock of this walker-turner lathe I have. I can't find a manual for this thing. I think it's the 5112 model but I'm not for certain. I saw a video where a guy put a Punch Out tool into the back end of a lathe and then it punched out the spur Center. I put a quarter-inch dowel through the back and I don't think I was making contact with the spur tool because it felt like I was hitting something rubber like an O-ring or something. And of the dowel was tapered as if it was being pushed on the edges of it and not making contact with the metal. Should this method work this lathe as well or am I doing something wrong? The chuck tightens and loosens but you can only loosen it until it tightens up against the spur. I have found very limited information on these walker Turner lathes and need some guidance please.

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post #2 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 12:29 AM
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I think the spur center just knocks out like video you watched. I think what you were hitting that was soft was something foreign in the tube that didn't belong. I've had dirt dobbers make nests in my lathe before. For my lathe I took a 3/8" steel rod and put a wooden handle on the end of it to knock out the center.
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post #3 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
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It seems odd to me though that I'm able to put the dowel in to about the length that I'm holding it up to in the picture. Because right there is where the pulleys end it feels like I can't enter into the passageway. Just seems like a curious spot how it lines up perfectly. I hit it with quite a bit of force.

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post #4 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 02:24 AM
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It looks like it's been in there a while. It'll probably take a few good strikes before you get it.

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post #5 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 02:49 AM
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Normally I would expect a Morse Taper but I see threads under the knurled knob.

My guess (Really WAG) is that the knurled knob continually unscrewed should push the spur out. If you get to the point where the knurled knob is spinning freely, use a Crescent Wrench. Tighten the wrench lightly around the threads. Put some wood under the wrench to act as a fulcrum and gently pry the spur out.

As I said, it is just a guess.

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post #6 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Once I loosen the knob, it stops once it is pressed up against the spur. These two pictures is pretty much the only information I can find on this lathe.

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post #7 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 02:12 PM
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The knurled knob is confusing, but I read on the PDF sheet that it has Morris 2 tapers.

The metal rod that pushes out spurs is called a knockout bar. I needed a longer one for my lathe, so I tried a wood dowel. It worked, kinda, but felt spongy. I got a longer steel rod, and it works much better.

I suspect that the spur has been there for a while, and is stuck very well. I suspect that it is a Morris 2 taper (MT2) spur. I believe that at some point, you will want a steel rod to use as a knockout bar.

I do not understand the knurled knob. I wonder whether it is there to "lock" the spur in place so that it won't fall on someone's toe if it accidentally comes out.

If it were my lathe, I would do the following:

1. Loosen the knurled knob as far as it will go.
2. Use a tool (pliers?) to try turning the knurled knob a little further to see if it pops out the spur. If it gets tight, stop.
3. Use a vacuum to suck out whatever might be inside, behind the spur. Try taping a piece of aquarium hose to the end of your vacuum hose and insert the aquarium hose in the knockout hole.
4. Find a long steel rod that will fit inside the knockout hole. Give it a bonk with a hammer. What happens? Does the spur move at all? Does it bump against the knurled knob? Can you release it the rest of the way?
5. If the spur doesn't move at all, then try giving it some more very firm bonks to see if you can get it to move. What happens?
6. Try the knob again. What happens?



... 10. LAST RESORT: See if you can get some penetrating oil (liquid wrench) into the taper to help release the spur. This is a very BAD idea for many reasons, including the fact that you don't want to lubricate the taper, but maybe there is no other choice. Hopefully others will suggest better ideas.

You may want to think about what happens when the spur pops out. The point is sharp.
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post #8 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
The knurled knob is confusing, but I read on the PDF sheet that it has Morris 2 tapers.

The metal rod that pushes out spurs is called a knockout bar. I needed a longer one for my lathe, so I tried a wood dowel. It worked, kinda, but felt spongy. I got a longer steel rod, and it works much better.

I suspect that the spur has been there for a while, and is stuck very well. I suspect that it is a Morris 2 taper (MT2) spur. I believe that at some point, you will want a steel rod to use as a knockout bar.

I do not understand the knurled knob. I wonder whether it is there to "lock" the spur in place so that it won't fall on someone's toe if it accidentally comes out.

If it were my lathe, I would do the following:

1. Loosen the knurled knob as far as it will go.
2. Use a tool (pliers?) to try turning the knurled knob a little further to see if it pops out the spur. If it gets tight, stop.
3. Use a vacuum to suck out whatever might be inside, behind the spur. Try taping a piece of aquarium hose to the end of your vacuum hose and insert the aquarium hose in the knockout hole.
4. Find a long steel rod that will fit inside the knockout hole. Give it a bonk with a hammer. What happens? Does the spur move at all? Does it bump against the knurled knob? Can you release it the rest of the way?
5. If the spur doesn't move at all, then try giving it some more very firm bonks to see if you can get it to move. What happens?
6. Try the knob again. What happens?



... 10. LAST RESORT: See if you can get some penetrating oil (liquid wrench) into the taper to help release the spur. This is a very BAD idea for many reasons, including the fact that you don't want to lubricate the taper, but maybe there is no other choice. Hopefully others will suggest better ideas.

You may want to think about what happens when the spur pops out. The point is sharp.
I think the knurled knob is just a thread protector.
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post #9 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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I look for a long skinny Steel Rod today at work that's smaller in diameter than a quarter inch since that quarter inch dowel seemes to get stuck and wasn't quite skinny enough. I've also included another close-up of that spur head. I can't even see a separation and metal from the shaft of the spur threads. I see a separation and metal around that green disc. So I'm not sure if that green disc is a part of that shaft also or not.

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post #10 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Curtislv426 View Post
I look for a long skinny Steel Rod today at work that's smaller in diameter than a quarter inch since that quarter inch dowel seemes to get stuck and wasn't quite skinny enough. I've also included another close-up of that spur head. I can't even see a separation and metal from the shaft of the spur threads. I see a separation and metal around that green disc. So I'm not sure if that green disc is a part of that shaft also or not.

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The green disk holds the seal around the main shaft.

The spur is a morse taper, it's going to take a good smack from the backside to get it out. Look at the visual of the accessories you posted, the spur is on the right.

The the taper on that spur is probably 3-4" long which makes up the difference you are seeing in depth.

Here's the most recent thread where the OP had a similar issue, and we had to convince him to smack the crap out of it, and as expected, it worked...

https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/i...tumped-173602/

Last edited by shoot summ; 09-10-2018 at 03:06 PM.
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post #11 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 03:31 PM
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You could try spraying some penetrating fluid through the hole in the back of the spindle, after a minute or so "gently tap" down on the knurled nut as you slowly rotate the spindle with a brass hammer or drift. This sets up a reaction allowing the penetrating fluid to do its job.

You will likely still need a steel rod to knock the arbor out of the spindle, it is tapered so once it moves even a fraction it will release.

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post #12 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 03:50 PM
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Another option is to grab the spur center with vice grips and use that to whack against with a mallet.

If you screw the knurled knob in all the way can you see where the spur center's taper enters the spindle? I wouldn't want to force anything if there's a chance that that knob is somehow a locking device. I'm hoping it's intended to be just a convenient way to release the taper (from a non-rusted in place accessory).

Dave in CT, USA
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post #13 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 04:30 PM
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From the same sight where you got your other doc:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=2409

Shows a breakdown of the parts.

The knurled nut is called a "spindle nut", likely to remove the spur if it isn't stuck.

Part 51-110 is called a "knock out rod".

It clearly shows the spur is MT.
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post #14 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
From the same sight where you got your other doc:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=2409

Shows a breakdown of the parts.

The knurled nut is called a "spindle nut", likely to remove the spur if it isn't stuck.

Part 51-110 is called a "knock out rod".

It clearly shows the spur is MT.
Thanks you. I will try to find a long metal rod that is skinnier than a quarter inch because all the other tools I tried were not hitting up against metal. It felt rubber or something and I could tell it couldn't get past a certain point because of it's thickness.

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post #15 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Curtislv426 View Post
Thanks you. I will try to find a long metal rod that is skinnier than a quarter inch because all the other tools I tried were not hitting up against metal. It felt rubber or something and I could tell it couldn't get past a certain point because of it's thickness.

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Get a big hammer, don't beat it, but with the additional weight of the hammer, tap it pretty good. If that doesn't do it then whack it pretty good. As mentioned some penetrating lube might help, some guys use ATF. You might consider hitting the spur with a torch also, just be careful of the seal in the headstock, you don't want to ruin it.

Shouldn't be anything in there, not sure what you are hitting unless someone stuffed something in there.

The knock out rod does appear to be pretty small diameter.
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post #16 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
You could try spraying some penetrating fluid through the hole in the back of the spindle, after a minute or so "gently tap" down on the knurled nut as you slowly rotate the spindle with a brass hammer or drift. This sets up a reaction allowing the penetrating fluid to do its job.

You will likely still need a steel rod to knock the arbor out of the spindle, it is tapered so once it moves even a fraction it will release.
Thanks Frank for the great suggestion. I will try that when I get home late tonight if I can locate a skinny enough rod

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post #17 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 08:12 PM
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The Knurled nut is advertised as a self ejecting feature for the arbor, a #2 morse taper is 0.57 inches in diameter at the small end so a 3/8" rod should easily pass through to knock it out, something must the stuffed in there.

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post #18 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 08:22 PM
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shoot summ has it- read the directions and the parts list. Yep. MT!

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post #19 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 08:40 PM
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I think that thing should have a lock and you screw it off... Just like the chuck in a drill.
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post #20 of 47 Old 09-10-2018, 09:31 PM
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I think that thing should have a lock and you screw it off... Just like the chuck in a drill.
You would be wrong, look at what he posted and the accessories, they are clearly morse taper, and even the description of the lathe indicates the spindle has a morse taper.

Third paragraph under Features:

"Head and tailstock spindles are machined to accomodate Number 2 Morse Tapers...."
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