At home store buying wood, help! - Page 5 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #81 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 04:20 AM
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Btw, did you take a gander at grain orientation? If not, when you put that through a planer you're probably going to have some pretty awesome tear out on random boards.

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post #82 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvalery20

Btw, did you take a gander at grain orientation? If not, when you put that through a planer you're probably going to have some pretty awesome tear out on random boards.
No what do you mean?

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post #83 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 09:11 AM
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No what do you mean?
See here for what he is talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(...considerations

I was lucky my first panel glue up when I was learning hand planes... didn't even know it was something to consider.

My second panel glue up was less lucky, and I got a lot of practice with my cabinet scraper removing plane tearout...

It is a problem with either power planes or hand planes, since when you glue up if you don't match the direction, or it changes within the piece around a knot, it gets hard to plane without tearout. It helps some to skew across the grain, holding the plane at an angle relative to the direction you're moving it.
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post #84 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Ok what am looking for? It looks like its all the same way.

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post #85 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by prinler View Post
Ok what am looking for? It looks like its all the same way.
The image on the wiki shows how to look at the grain. Since it is all glued up it is moot, but since you're shopping out flattening this thing you may want to have someone use a drum sander rather than a planer (which is probably what you're doing anyhow... just clarifying his comment further).
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post #86 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 01:26 PM
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by all means use a wide belt sander if possible

Oak can have straight grain and plane out beatifully, and then it can be wild and tear out. Learning how to read grain direction can take years and different wood behave differently than others.

Here's a tip. It's like rubbing the fur on your pet dog or cat from head to tail....smooth. Go from tail to head and it all stands up.
You want to plane in the smooth direction so you are shearing off the fibers rather than lifting and tearing them.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #87 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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On my board, can I attempt to use my hand plane or would I maybe mess it up? I think it's a number 4

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post #88 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by prinler View Post
On my board, can I attempt to use my hand plane or would I maybe mess it up? I think it's a number 4


You could 'test' your plane on the bottom side of the top where it will NOT be seen to see for yourself how that may or may not help you here... It all depends... Would be worth a 'test' in my opinion to see if it could save you any time.




As narrow (yes it is long but still not very deep) as it is you 'could' easily knock it down with some 60 grit sandpaper. and then move on to your finer grits before you start your finishing.

The Dewalt 5" orbital sanders are relatively cheap (can be SUPER CHEAP if you check local pawn shops for one that is used), you can get the papers in many different grits, and they even have a dust collector thingie that works somewhat well (can easily attach a small shop vac hose to the fitting and make even LESS dust)

The Dewalt orbital sanders are VERY sturdy and will last a LONG time if you take care not to damage the hook and loop pad. Even if you do manage to someday kill the hook and loop pad you can get a replacement kit from the Dewalt store that includes a new base pad + the gasket thing that goes between it and the sander for CHEAP. You will want to save any basepads that you DO eventually kill so you can sand the hook and loop stuff completely off of it and use that pad for 'stickyback' paper just in case you ever end up being forced to buy that kind (because sometimes that paper is cheaper than the hook and loop).

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-D26451K-Corded-5-Inch-Random/dp/B0007XXHGO

OR

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Porter-Ca...-382/203054710

You also mentioned previously that you had a bookcase going on top of this top... Depending on IF the bookcase has a 'floor' or 'bottom' in it and how long and deep the bookcase is will also help determine how much you really 'need' to sand down. No need in finish sanding parts that will be covered up and will not be seen. Need to know more about your bookcase to determine how much you 'need' to sand.

Just guessing here but based on your previous pictures and how close you managed to get your joints - I would guess it would take no more than a few hours to flatten the entire top out on the topside if using 60 grit paper. The bottom of this will never be seen so there is not much 'need' to finish that very much.

That would be less than an hours worth of work with a good beltsander and some 80 to 100 grit paper but those cost a bit more than the orbital would...
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post #89 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Oak can have straight grain and plane out beatifully, and then it can be wild and tear out. Learning how to read grain direction can take years and different wood behave differently than others.

Here's a tip. It's like rubbing the fur on your pet dog or cat from head to tail....smooth. Go from tail to head and it all stands up.
You want to plane in the smooth direction so you are shearing off the fibers rather than lifting and tearing them.
In my experience - how 'sharp' the blades are matters as well.

Sometimes with old and tired planer blades - it does not seem to even matter when you flip the board around and run it in the other direction. Still end up with chunks missing. That usually tells me it is time to get the blades sharpened.

As my blades get dull I try to take less and less on each pass to reduce or prevent tearout (along with flipping the boards around in the right direction).

I have NO explanation for the boards that tearout no matter how sharp the blades are or how little of a cut one is taking...

I have ruined my fair share of otherwise 'good' boards because I 'thought' the planer would save me some time and in the end it led to a messed up piece of wood...




Only saying this for the benefit of others... I KNOW you have been doing this a hell of a lot longer than me and already know this stuff and a LOT more...
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post #90 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Book case has no bottom enless you call the butcher block the bottom.

My plane is brand new and I think I have it setup right. It does good on pine scrap. I guess I need to choose a bottom and a top.

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post #91 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
In my experience - how 'sharp' the blades are matters as well.

Sometimes with old and tired planer blades - it does not seem to even matter when you flip the board around and run it in the other direction. Still end up with chunks missing. That usually tells me it is time to get the blades sharpened.

As my blades get dull I try to take less and less on each pass to reduce or prevent tearout (along with flipping the boards around in the right direction).

I have NO explanation for the boards that tearout no matter how sharp the blades are or how little of a cut one is taking...

I have ruined my fair share of otherwise 'good' boards because I 'thought' the planer would save me some time and in the end it led to a messed up piece of wood...




Only saying this for the benefit of others... I KNOW you have been doing this a hell of a lot longer than me and already know this stuff and a LOT more...
Because of that I make sure my plane irons are sharp. If they even start to hint that they are getting dull, I sharpen them. Using the correct plane for the task at hand and wood species has a lot to do with tear out also. Highly figured woods is where it really gets fun.

Mike Darr
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post #92 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Midwest Millworks View Post
Because of that I make sure my plane irons are sharp. If they even start to hint that they are getting dull, I sharpen them. Using the correct plane for the task at hand and wood species has a lot to do with tear out also. Highly figured woods is where it really gets fun.

Mike Darr

Putting this in bold for the benefit of others...

You obviously KNOW your stuff.
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post #93 of 99 Old 05-21-2013, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by prinler View Post
Book case has no bottom enless you call the butcher block the bottom.

My plane is brand new and I think I have it setup right. It does good on pine scrap. I guess I need to choose a bottom and a top.
I saw your other pictures in your other thread and can see exactly what you are doing now...

Pine will NOT plane out like Oak will FWIW...

Going to be a good looking project!
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post #94 of 99 Old 05-22-2013, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prinler
Book case has no bottom enless you call the butcher block the bottom.

My plane is brand new and I think I have it setup right. It does good on pine scrap. I guess I need to choose a bottom and a top.
Just keep in mind that plane blades are never truly sharp out of the box, and if you plan on using it, blades dull after about 20 minutes of straight use depending on the stock variety, since you're dealing with Red Oak, I would say get some 600, 800 and 2000 grit wet sand paper, contact cement one of each sheet on a plate of glass and set yourself up with a little sharpening station. A dull hand plane can ruin a board very very quick. And make sure to get a blade jig to hold the blade at the right angle. Another helpful hint is to take a sharpie and color the bevel on the blade before you start to sharpen it to make sure your sharpening at the right angle.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
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post #95 of 99 Old 05-22-2013, 02:06 AM
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Cool to see the thread smoothed out.

Seemed there was a good handful of advice being given and not much acknowledging it was even said followed by a backlash.

Now that the air's clear and progress is going forward I'd like to see some pictures =P
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post #96 of 99 Old 05-22-2013, 10:52 AM
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[QUOTE=dvalery20;480382]Just keep in mind that plane blades are never truly sharp out of the box, and if you plan on using it, blades dull after about 20 minutes of straight use depending on the stock variety, since you're dealing with Red Oak, I would say get some 600, 800 and 2000 grit wet sand paper, contact cement one of each sheet on a plate of glass and set yourself up with a little sharpening station. A dull hand plane can ruin a board very very quick. And make sure to get a blade jig to hold the blade at the right angle. Another helpful hint is to take a sharpie and color the bevel on the blade before you start to sharpen it to make sure your sharpening at the right angle.[/QUOTE

Contact cement is not needed to hold down the sandpaper. Water applied with a spray bottle will work just fine. With water you don't have to clean off the contact cement when you change your paper.

If using the sandpaper to sharpen I would recommend using a granite surface plate. You can get one from Rockler or Woodcraft fairly cheap. There is no guarantee that plate glass is perfectly flat and if not thick enough could flex during sharpening if it is not on something that is perfectly flat. Plane iron and chisel sharpening is one of those things every woodworker needs to get profecient at. I sharpen at least one tool everyday in my shop, even if I don't use any that day. It doesn't take as much time that way, I stay good at it and it helps keep me prepared.

Like you said, they aren't sharp out of the box either.

Mike Darr]
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post #97 of 99 Old 05-22-2013, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Gonna move this topic to my build thread if y'all wanna come over there. :)

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post #98 of 99 Old 05-22-2013, 04:08 PM
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I'm still surprised that in Barstow there is no place better than home depot to get good wood.

Studies have shown that having a ladder in the home is more dangerous than having a firearm. That's why I own 10 guns... in case some maniac tries to sneak a ladder into my house...
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post #99 of 99 Old 05-22-2013, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Well the town is small 44,000 i think the sign says and we have alot of low income. I think the common hobby here is drugs, or off roading.

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