hole in dowel - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-21-2019, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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hole in dowel

I make toys and models which some require cylinders. I have trouble getting a straight centered hole in a dowel without the bit shooting out the side. I just made a dump truck with a three piece joist. I finally got it fairly close enough to work. Dose anybody have any ideas or jigs that my help?
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-21-2019, 06:44 PM
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make a jig

Drill a small size hole, 1/16" in a 1" piece of wood all the way through. Then, using the small hole as the center, drill a hole half way through the size of your dowel. Then drill a hole the size of the desired hole on the opposite side so it meets the dowel size hole. Insert the dowel and then your hole will be centered.


If you had a lathe this would be simple, no jig required. Chuck up the dowel, drill the hole, done.
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post #3 of 25 Old 01-21-2019, 08:19 PM
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Do you have a lathe?
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post #4 of 25 Old 01-21-2019, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Drill a small size hole...
Thanks for that post! Now I know how to drill a 1/16" hole in a 1'4" dowel.
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post #5 of 25 Old 01-22-2019, 07:15 AM
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in addition to starting with a small bit, I have found that
if you put the drill bit in the chuck with only maybe 1/2" out
will lessen the flex and wiggle of the bit.
a solid vise gripping the dowel firmly in place is another tip.
also - use the correct drill bits. there are wood bits and there are
metal bits. they are not the same.
if you intend to do a lot of holes in dowels, I would suggest
you purchase a quality set of bits designed for wood.
a drill press and a good bench vice is a must. doing anything with
a hand drill and vice grips is often not the most accurate way to go.

I bought this "Compound Vice" a couple of years ago off of E-Bay
and am very satisfied with it. it is basically the same as the one at Harbor Freight.
once you get all the grease and gunk off of it and all the moving parts
dialed in and adjusted so it works as it should, it is a real nice entry level
compound vice to have for small drill press work.
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/10601
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-22-2019, 01:40 PM
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If the drill bit is drifting, then start with a very small drill bit and move up in steps until you reach the desired hole size.
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-22-2019, 03:03 PM
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Drifting drill bits ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard View Post
If the drill bit is drifting, then start with a very small drill bit and move up in steps until you reach the desired hole size.

If your drill bit does not drill a straight hole, chances are it's dull, or has one web that's longer from improper grinding/sharpening, which applies to twist drills. A brad point bit will tend to drill more straight.
The question was about how to center the hole in the end of a dowel.
I suggested a simple jig which would do that repeatedly in dowels of the same diameter. You would need different jigs in various sizes if your dowels are different sizes, but the jig is easy to make and cheap.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #8 of 25 Old 01-22-2019, 04:29 PM
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When using a drill press for shorter dowels I use a narrow strip of hardwood, first drilling a hole the size of the dowel, then cut a slit through the hole. Drill a hole through the edge of the board for a bolt. Align the hole for the dowel again by lowering the bit and clamp the fixture to the locked drill table. Drop the dowel in the hole and lock it in position by tightening the bolt, check dowel is perpendicular to fixture. Change bits to size of center hole and drill, if dowel is longer than bit reverse dowel end for end and drill from other end.
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-22-2019, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys for all of your help.. All of the ways were helpful. I do have a lathe. I hadn't thought of that way. I have tried Frank's way. It works well on short dowels but some of the dowels are pretty long. Like the ones for the excavator they are the longest ones I've tried. I got them fairly close. I used Frank's method. It works fairly well. The worst problem is when I switch ends the holes don't always match and the dowel i''m inserting won't go all the way through. I wasted a lot of dowels before I got one to work.The three piece jack was the hardest one I've tried . It's still enjoying even it doesn't go right. Like the old saying, If at first you don't succeed, try,try again. (or cry sometimes)
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 01:28 AM
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Was thinking about this and realized I actually did something similar drilling a teflon rod to make gaskets before I realized how harmful teflon is.

You need length of pipe that fits over the dowel and a collar that fits inside the pipe with a center hole the same size as the drill bit.

The collar is fastened inside the the pipe and has a set screw to fasten it to the drill bit.

I drilled relief holes to allow the cuttings to escape out of the pipe.

This is a quick sketch similar to what I had.
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post #11 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 07:24 AM
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if you have a drill press, cut a V block out of some scrap. helps to use a fence on the drill press, or a board clamped to the table.


lower the bit so that it aligns in the center of the V, adjust fence. drill away.
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post #12 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 09:14 AM
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Making toy model hydraulic cylinders .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEMcooter#2 View Post
I make toys and models which some require cylinders. I have trouble getting a straight centered hole in a dowel without the bit shooting out the side. I just made a dump truck with a three piece joist. I finally got it fairly close enough to work. Dose anybody have any ideas or jigs that my help?

This requires drill exactly done the center of the dowel, not across it. The drill must be centered or it will wander out the sides as stated. A lathe would be best, as stated above several places. For those without a lathe, the centering jig is the next best thing as stated above.



To make one from PVC, find the size that the dowel with juts slip inside. You may need to drill out the inside with a 1/2", 5/8" or 3/4" drill, but hold the PVC securely and go with a real slow feed. Then find a nut that will have the correct inside drill diameter and again you may have to drill that hole out as well. Grind off the corners on the nust and epoxy it inside the PVC and there you have a durable precision centering jig for future use.


If you have a metal lathe, you can make a one piece drilling jig from wood or an aluminum round, following much the same process as above. Why just make them all in the lathe, you ask? The drill press would be a bit faster with a jig, but it could be a toss up. Typically, metal lathe speeds are much slower than wood lathe speeds, so the drilling may be a bit "stubborn" and require more force in the end grain ... I donno?



You can use a dowel "transfer" plug like these:
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools.../dp/B00004T82N

This would mean drilling two different size holes, one for the plug to rest in deeper, and one for the dowel to sit on top and center the pin in the end. You would still have to guide the drill accurately by hand however, so not as accurate as the other jigs.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 11:26 AM
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I made a lot of pens this year as holiday gifts. That means drilling holes down the long end of pen blanks. I used both the drill press and the lathe, but settled on the lathe. Here are a few tricks that work for me. I found them by experimentation, so the experts may disagree:

Use a center finder to mark the center of the dowel (or pen blank). I use the center finder from a Starrett combination square set. I tried several different center finders, but the one that comes with the combination square works best for me. It is the V-shaped tool with the blade (ruler) going through the middle of the "V". I make several marks on the wood, not just two. If it is a pen blank, then I make four lines; one for each corner. Sometimes the dowel is not perfectly round or the pen blank is not perfectly square. In that case, the marks may look more like a tic-tac-toe board (hash mark), but the center is obvious. It is better to know if the dowel is not perfectly round.
http://www.starrett.com/category/pre...&sortBy=wp/asc

Use a center punch to create a starter "divot" to guide your drill. I use a Spring Tool because it is easy to aim on the exact center point. I have tried many other center punches over the years, but I like this one:
https://www.rockler.com/spring-tool-set

Use brad point drill bits. I line up the drill bit point exactly on the center punch divot, turn up the rotation speed to fast, and give the drill bit a quick plunge to get the hole started straight. Next, I back out the bit and slow the rotation speed down. Using the starter hole as a guide, I continue drilling slowly, backing out the drill bit frequently to allow the shavings to clear. Don't believe the hype about how well the drill bit clears itself. Even if you see the chips coming out the back of the drill, back it out and clear the chips frequently anyway. I think it helps to keep friction heat down, and gives the drill bit a chance to "breathe" and cool off between cuttings. (Don't brush the chips with an unprotected hand - drill bit flutes can be hot and sharp.)

If you are drilling long holes through thin parts like dowels and pen blanks, then I recommend the special pen making drill bits from Fisch. They are specially designed to drill long straight holes in end grain wood. The problem is that they are only available in the specific sizes that pen makers use:
https://www.rockler.com/fisch-hss-pe...ll-bits-inches
https://www.rockler.com/fisch-hss-pe...ts-millimeters
https://www.rockler.com/fisch-hss-pen-making-drill-bits

If you use a drill press, you will need a holder or drill press vise that keeps the dowel or pen blank well clamped, perfectly vertical, and perfectly centered under the drill. If you don't have anything else, try a stacked pair of hand screw clamps at 90 degrees to one another.

I prefer the lathe over the drill press, by far. It does a better job of making long, straight, centered holes compared with the drill press, and is easier for me to set up and use. I use a Nova G3 chuck with the pen jaws to hold the pen blanks or dowels,. I like the pen jaws a lot. They come as a pair, not four jaws. As a result, if you mount the dowel (or pen blank) with a small gap on the chuck side, then it is easy to see visually when the drill has popped out the back of the piece. (Yeah, you can feel it, but the visual confirmation is nice!) The pen jaws are shaped to grip dowels and square/rectangular pen blanks very well. I use a 1/2 inch Jacobs chuck (drill chuck) on the tailstock to hold the drill bit.

The lathe motor rotates the wood in the pen jaws while the operator slowly cranks the tailstock to drive the non-rotating drill bit into the rotating wood. I loosen and back out the tailstock frequently to relieve/release the chips. My friends think I back it out too often, but I think that helps reduce heat and improves the long term durability of the drill bit, and there is no harm to do it.

Jacobs chuck for mounting drill bits on the lathe:
https://www.rockler.com/lathe-chuck-and-tapers-chuck
Pen jaws, recommended, both on sale, but the veterans ones are a better price. They fit any Nova chuck:
https://www.rockler.com/nova-limited...-pen-plus-jaws
https://www.rockler.com/nova-pen-plus-jaws
I have a Nova G3 chuck set, currently on sale. There are also standalone Nova G3 chucks that you can buy, or use a different Nova chuck - any Nova chuck will fit the pen jaws.
https://www.rockler.com/nova-30th-an...-sets-and-case

(IMPORTANT NOTE: The links above match products that fit my Delta 46-460 lathe and many other common lathes. My lathe has Morse Taper 2 (MT2) tapers at both ends, and a 1 inch x 8 TPI thread on the headstock. Those are the most common sizes, but your lathe may differ. 1.25 in x 8 TPI threads are also common on larger lathes. Morse Taper 1 (MT1) tapers are not common, but I have seen a few over the years.)
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post #14 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 11:33 AM
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nice write up! I have noticed that when chucking up any length of dowel, that without a tailstock support, the unsupported end doesn't necessarily spin on center. do you just rechuck and try again? steady rest? or will the drill bit "find" the center (I have heard...)

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post #15 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 12:06 PM
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I routinely drill holes lengthwise through small dowels. For instance, I will chuck up a 1/4 inch dowel in the chuck on the wood lathe and then with a drill chuck mounted in the tail stock and a BRAD POINT bit, drill a 3/16 ths hole through the dowel. I routinely use 2 inch lengths of hollow dowel in some items I make. If I get run out, it is not noticeable. I do need to go slow and unclog the flutes frequently but that is hogging out a major portion of the dowel. For anything longer than 2 inches, I drill from one end and then the other, but it is hard to find a longer brad point drill bit that is only 3/16.

Incidentally, before I had the wood lathe chuck, I simply used a 1/2 inch drill chuck mounted on the head stock and another on the tail stock. both ways worked just fine. .
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post #16 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
nice write up! I have noticed that when chucking up any length of dowel, that without a tailstock support, the unsupported end doesn't necessarily spin on center. do you just rechuck and try again? steady rest? or will the drill bit "find" the center (I have heard...)
Thank you, and those are great questions.

The workpiece must be rigid enough to hold its shape as the drill bit cuts through the endgrain. It is possible that the workpiece is too thin or too long to drill on a lathe without the end of the workpiece whipping around. In that case, you may need to use a drill press or create a clamping support jig. (I imagine two long pieces with v-grooves, maybe?) I am successfully drilling 5/8 inch or larger pieces up to six inches long, some square in cross section, some dowels.

In your case, I would rechuck and try again. The Pen Plus jaws that I recommend are fairly long. As long as the workpiece (dowel or pen blank) has reasonably straight (parallel) sides, it should chuck up straight. I wiggle the workpiece gently as I tighten the jaws, to make sure that it is properly seated.

If you follow my procedure, the tip of the brad point should line up perfectly with the center punch divot. If it doesn't, then try making a new divot on the other side and drill there. Run the lathe fast and be decisive when you start the hole. Do a quick plunge with the lathe turning at high speed to start the hole. Make the plunge about 1/4 inch deep. Once the hole is started, stop the lathe and set it to run slower. Take your time and drive the drill into the wood slowly and carefully. Back out the drill bit often, to clear out the chips.

I found that the real trick is to get the hole started nice and straight. The drill bit can snag and "twirl" if you start the hole with the lathe turning too slow, or if you hesitate on that first plunge. I believe that the tip of the brad point drill bit can catch on an off-center wood fiber, which starts the drill bit twirling action. When the drill bit snags and twirls, there isn't much to do but decide whether to continue drilling, or throw the workpiece in the trash and start again. Most of the time, I continue with the drilling. The drill whips a little, but the hole is useable for pen turning. It might not work as well for centered holes on dowels.

Longer holes are more difficult. If you are making two-part pens (the most common type), then cut the blank into two parts first. Drill the parts separately, starting each hole at the cut line.

Additional comments:
* I have never tried drilling on the lathe with the drill bit turning on the headstock and the workpiece driven into it from the tailstock. There must be a good reason that it isn't more commonly done, but it might work in cases where the workpiece might whip around.

* I have one advantage over @GEMcooter#2: If you are drilling your work to prepare it for turning (like pens), then the drill hole does not have to be perfectly centered along its length, as long as the drill hole is straight and there is enough wood material around the exit hole. The mounted workpiece may be somewhat unbalanced, but your next step will be to rough it to a cylinder that is parallel to the hole.
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post #17 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the information about drilling a hole through the length of a dowel. I'll try some the methods when I get ready to make another dump truck or excavator. I have been trying to get my inventory built for the spring shows. So far sense Christmas I have finished a school bus. a large jeep,a bucket truck, a mack dump truck,3 medium jeeps, 6 small ,jeeps,and today I finished 9 small tractors. I forgot I also made 2 small bull dozers. I have a lot more to do before our first show in March. Thanks again for the helpful information.Keep building. And may Gos Light shine on you all.GEMCooter
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-23-2019, 10:49 PM
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OK, A lot of good suggestions. There are 2 problems that need to be solved.

1 - Setting the drill press to drill in the exact center of the dowel.
2 - The actual drilling the hole process.

Start with a piece of true scrap. (S4S if you will.) Mill (router) or cut with a dado blade a "V" groove that is about ˝ the depth of the diameter of the dowel at the point of the "V". The "V" needs to be 90°.
Cut two pieces off the scrap that approximate the length of the dowel. Fold these two pieces together so that the "V" lines up. Clamp a drill bit the same size as the dowel between the scrap. Leave the shank of the drill bit extending beyond the scrap. Insert the drill bit into the chuck and clamp securely. Lower the chuck with drill bit and scrap as low as possible. Position the fence flat against the scrap and secure the fence in this position. Attach 'stops' to the fence and slide them snugly against the scrap and secure in this position. Mark the sides of the scrap that are against the fence for repeatability. Remove the drill from the chuck.

You have just centered the drill press on your dowel.

Put your dowel between the scrap and clamp. Drill away with the appropriate size drill.

I would drill in two passes. A small pilot hole followed by the desired hole.

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post #19 of 25 Old 01-24-2019, 05:24 AM
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Then find a nut that will have the correct inside drill diameter and again you may have to drill that hole out as well. Grind off the corners on the nut and epoxy it inside the PVC and there you have a durable precision centering jig for future use.
What setup do you use to grind the corners off concentric with the hole in the middle?
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post #20 of 25 Old 01-24-2019, 09:15 AM
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well, it is woodworking ....

So, accuracy is relative. I can think of several ways. One is to find a washer the right size, lock it onto a bolt and grind the nut down to the OD of the washer. You could use a file and do the same. No matter what method, do not hold the nut by hand to grind it. You could put the nut in a vise and grind or hand file it, eye balling the length of the flats. You could lock the nut on a bolt and chuck it in a drill press OR use a drill to spin it while grinding on a wheel or belt. It's not going to need 0.001" accuracy.




The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by Steve Neul; 01-25-2019 at 08:58 AM. Reason: minor correction
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