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post #21 of 91 Old 07-04-2008, 04:04 PM
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Pocket holes

I have been using the kreg master jig set now for about 2 months, built several projects with it, really had good luck & I really like the pocket hole system, really builds nice doors & face frames, & very nice tables.
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post #22 of 91 Old 07-04-2008, 09:05 PM
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Kreg screwing, or least the idea has been around for a very long time...Kreg , just came up with a nifty portable fixture/jig to introduce to the general public. To use the KREG JIG...you need the reduce tip drill bit that has a collar for setting the depth of drilling. The jig that I have needed to be fixed to a piece of 3/4 ply about 12"s x 16"s. Included with the set-up were the step bit. two support wings, the work piece clamp and spacer blocks...also the collar for the bit. The spacer blocks are for Kreging thicker boards. Note: when drilling the board the screw rides in...the bit should not protrude the bottom...but just leave a dimple that can be knocked off with your thumb nail or sanded off. The suggested screw is 1 and 5/8th"s long with coars or fine threads and a quad head. When screwing... set the drill speed to low and use the clutch...I now, have a Craftsman 18v bad. drill...I set the clutch at 12 to 16 of possable 22 being the hightest setting. I buy screws in 50lb boxes. And have never had the problems listed here! Rick

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post #23 of 91 Old 07-04-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
Kreg screwing, or least the idea has been around for a very long time...Kreg , just came up with a nifty portable fixture/jig to introduce to the general public. To use the KREG JIG...you need the reduce tip drill bit that has a collar for setting the depth of drilling. The jig that I have needed to be fixed to a piece of 3/4 ply about 12"s x 16"s. Included with the set-up were the step bit. two support wings, the work piece clamp and spacer blocks...also the collar for the bit. The spacer blocks are for Kreging thicker boards. Note: when drilling the board the screw rides in...the bit should not protrude the bottom...but just leave a dimple that can be knocked off with your thumb nail or sanded off. The suggested screw is 1 and 5/8th"s long with coars or fine threads and a quad head. When screwing... set the drill speed to low and use the clutch...I now, have a Craftsman 18v bad. drill...I set the clutch at 12 to 16 of possable 22 being the hightest setting. I buy screws in 50lb boxes. And have never had the problems listed here! Rick
The fixed base isn't used when drilling for face frames. With mine came the following: one support wing and no spacer blocks. One step drill bit. One short square drive bit as well as one long square drive bit. One clamp. And of course the guide and base etc. If you drill far enough to leave a dimple, you've drilled too far. The screw that the instruction manual calls for is 1 1/4". That is for 3/4" to 3/4". To the best of my knowledge, they don't make a 1 5/8" pan head screw. And according to the way you suggest to drill it and screw it, the screw would be waaay tooo long and blow right out the front of the wood. You can't drill that far into the stock and use that long of a screw and not have it come out the front. Even if you didn't drill that far, it would still come out the front because the screw is too long for that application.

The model # I have is the K3MS.
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post #24 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 12:55 AM
 
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recall

I know they recalled some of the bits because they were not machined properly. Kreg was giving out new bits that had the right depth from the point to the larger diameter of the bit.
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post #25 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyfromHouston View Post
I know they recalled some of the bits because they were not machined properly. Kreg was giving out new bits that had the right depth from the point to the larger diameter of the bit.
When was this? I don't think that I have a problem with the bit, but along with everything else, who knows? Of course that wouldn't have anything to do with the screw spliting out the wood. As I said earlier, if I could find a long bit, I could pre-drill. I don't think these screws drill like they say they do. I haven't seen it anyway. If they did drill like they are made to do, I don't think I would have the problem of spliting.
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post #26 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 11:10 AM
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Sorry I think I was wrong about the length of the screw...1 and 1/4" is right!

Never... I mean always... never mind Rick
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post #27 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 01:22 PM
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woodworks, I think you said you got the jig, etc. at Lowes...

Is it, in fact, the Kreg brand and Kreg screws?

Not a wanna-bee brand?

It's funny, I have never seen any demos performed mention the 1/32 slippage problem...

I have seen a special clamp that goes into an adjacent Pocket Hole while screwing another...

I have not used the stuff... but, I'm very close to buying a K3 Master pkg. ... eBay has some Free Shipping deals.

Last edited by Joe Lyddon; 07-05-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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post #28 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 02:33 PM
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????????????????

Just showing my ignorance here. I have never heard the pocket screw use or system.
Could some one fill me in on the uses of pocket screws. I feel humble and dumb. Dale
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post #29 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 05:11 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom-3 View Post
Just showing my ignorance here. I have never heard the pocket screw use or system.
Could some one fill me in on the uses of pocket screws. I feel humble and dumb. Dale
Here are some links that may give you an idea of what they are...

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki.../011183032.pdf

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=28013

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/index.php


http://www.kregtool.com/information_center/index.php
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post #30 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 05:42 PM
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FR3: Firstly MDF is a very poor material to use pocket screws with, way way too soft, it will blowout like you have just because it is mdf.
Second; are you trying to keep pockets INSIDE the box instead of outside where they are easier to get at?
Third: by keeping em outside they DO MAKE CLAMPS JUST FOR THIS
The are called RAC clamps; Right Angle Clamps for pockets. One leg is a 3/8 dia long pin to fit INSIDE the pocket and the other is the flat wide clamping face. With pockets out all you do is place the pins into 2 pockets clamp em tight, screw the other pockets then take em off and put screws in them.
Unless there is an acoustic reason for MDf plywood is way better to use, MDO ply gives a paint ready,super smooth face.
Yes you can get RAC's at Blowes
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post #31 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 08:20 PM
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Kreg.

Just to you all who have not tried pocket hole joinery, I have been using it now for about 3 months, it really is a great system, I have built several bookcases, end tables, night stands, & many other pieces, it really is a good way to go. I have the Kreg K3 master set- with the right angle clamp, I have not had one screw split out the wood yet, I am using oak & hickory, I have built several doors with it for cabinets, & other shelves, it really makes good looking doors, it makes fast & really strong joints. Let me know when some of you give it a try & let me know how you like it. Also good items to have also are the kreg dvds, the one on tables is really good, they have several ones available.
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post #32 of 91 Old 07-05-2008, 10:28 PM
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face frames

Woodworks,
I have always assembled my faceframes first and then lined it up on the cabinet box, which I use 3/4" furniture grade plywood, and then fastened the faceframe to the box with pocket screws. I have drilled the pocket screw holes on the inside of the box, and sometimes the outside of the box, depending on if the side of the cabinet is going to show when installed. I have not had any splitting either way. I normally use bar clamps to hold the face frame in position. I don't seem to have any movement. I think you have to be very careful not to overtighten the screws. Don't rely on clutch settings. I use a ryobi right angle drill which has no adjustable clutch. I use a very light trigger finger and ease up as the screw begins to seat, just letting it seat and I stop there. I also have the kreg clamp which is designed for clamping 90 degree corners. It has one jaw that fits in the pocket hole and the other clamps the two pieces together. It is made to do the hole next to the one you are clamping. You might also want to check to see if the Kreg rep ever comes to your area for a trade show or tool show. He comes to our area twice a year for the Harville Hardware tool sale. He is very good at demoing the tools usage and can answer questions such as yours and probably be able to tell you what to do to remedy the problems you are having. Good luck, don't give up, it is a fun tool.
Mike Hawkins
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post #33 of 91 Old 07-06-2008, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Lyddon View Post
woodworks, I think you said you got the jig, etc. at Lowes...

Is it, in fact, the Kreg brand and Kreg screws?

Not a wanna-bee brand?

It's funny, I have never seen any demos performed mention the 1/32 slippage problem...

I have seen a special clamp that goes into an adjacent Pocket Hole while screwing another...

I have not used the stuff... but, I'm very close to buying a K3 Master pkg. ... eBay has some Free Shipping deals.

No, I bought mine at Rockler. It and the screws are kreg.
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post #34 of 91 Old 07-06-2008, 02:03 AM
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firehawkmph

I have done it both ways. For me, I like doing it one piece at a time. Other then that, I am doing it the same way you are. When I clamp it, I don't have any movement either. I don't rely on the clutch alone. I have been doing this for well over 30 yrs. Not using the jig, just the woodworking.

Let's get past the clamping for now. My biggest problem is with the screws spliting the wood. When I hold the face frame flush with the outside of the cabinet and put in the screw, it is coming to within a 1/16 of an inch to the outside of the face frame. That is causing the wood to split. While the screw is not coming through, it is spliting the wood. I am already using a #7 screw. And yes it is fine thread. And no I haven't tried the #6 because as many times as I've twisted off the #7's, I can just imagine what the #6's would do. And yes, they will twist off even before the frame is sucked up to the cabinet in those cases where I can't use a clamp.

For all you guys that say this jig works fine for you, it would be nice to have someone close to me to prove it. As for my own experience, I can't say the same. Now I will admitt that I haven't used this on any other wood species. This is my first experience using the jig. And as luck would have it, I am using hickory. But, as far as I can see, I can't see where it would make any difference if I were using any other hardwood. It might be different in softwood.

F3RR3T:
I hope you are getting the help you need here. I really hope I haven't stepped on your toes. I'm still hopping someone will figure this out for me. I seem to have hit a dead end.
Maybe somebody would like to do a sample of some hardwood and see if they can duplicate what I am describing.

I am using 3/4" plywood as the box cabinet. I am planing my hickory down to 3/4" and using that as the face frame. I am keeping the outside edge flush with the outside of the cabinet. The screw is at such an angle that it is coming super close to the outside edge and that is what is causing the wood to split.

I know I am repeating myself, but I am hoping that maybe if I say it enough times, someone will see something I am missing and be able to point it out to me.

Thank you everyone that is trying to help both me and F3RR3T. I'm sure he appreciates it as much as I do.
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post #35 of 91 Old 07-06-2008, 12:18 PM
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Question

As I've said, I'm not using the Kreg jig yet, BUT, it sounds like your screws are TOO LONG. It doesn't seem right to me for them to be coming within 1/16th inch from other side.

Have you tried shorter screws.. shorter by 1/4"? Those screws would end up close to the middle... Am I thinking wrong?

EDIT: Either that or the hole you're drilling is too deep.
(unedit)

If someone could check this aspect, it may be the answer...

Last edited by Joe Lyddon; 07-06-2008 at 03:09 PM.
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post #36 of 91 Old 07-06-2008, 02:54 PM
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Woodworks, I do use the fixed Kreg Jig for my face frames and cabinet sides!! It`s portable...like I said...it`s mounted on a small sheet of ply. Rick

Never... I mean always... never mind Rick
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post #37 of 91 Old 07-06-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
Woodworks, I do use the fixed Kreg Jig for my face frames and cabinet sides!! It`s portable...like I said...it`s mounted on a small sheet of ply. Rick
I have the same setup as you do. My base is 13x26. I just choose not to use it on the cabinet sides. I just use the guide with the clamp. On this particular cabinet, the sides are 26" wide so it isn't as easy to manuver around. Using the guide with the clamp is much easier. In the end, it all comes out the exact same way (except that my wood splits and yours doesn't).

Joe Lyddon

I am doing it the EXACT way the instructions SAY to do it! That is what is so frustrating to me.

If I go with a shorter screw, it won't grip the wood. The same thing if I shorten the pocket. I really have tried everything that has been suggested here. That is why I am having such a hard time with understanding how these guys are coming out with such good results.

I have made a cabinet that the frame is made from 7/8" stock. Also it is 1/16" past flush. That seems to work better, but I am not able to finish all of my stock at 7/8". I usually have to finish it down to 3/4". Plus, I can't run it all past flush. That cabinet was made to be in line with a row of cabinets so they will be screwed to one another and you won't see the frame sticking past the side. This cabinet and a few others will be in a position where I need to keep the frames flush with the sides. Plus, the jig is supposed to make it so I can do it that way.

So if anyone has any other suggestions, please feel free to post them (unless of course they are the ones that tell me where to go).
I know most of you guys like this jig, and I can see why. What I don't see is why I'm not getting the same results you guys are.

And again, thank you one and all for all the help. I appreciate the time you are putting into trying to figure this out with me.
Jay
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post #38 of 91 Old 07-07-2008, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodworks View Post
I have the same setup as you do. My base is 13x26. I just choose not to use it on the cabinet sides. I just use the guide with the clamp. On this particular cabinet, the sides are 26" wide so it isn't as easy to manuver around. Using the guide with the clamp is much easier. In the end, it all comes out the exact same way (except that my wood splits and yours doesn't).

Joe Lyddon

I am doing it the EXACT way the instructions SAY to do it! That is what is so frustrating to me.

If I go with a shorter screw, it won't grip the wood. The same thing if I shorten the pocket. I really have tried everything that has been suggested here. That is why I am having such a hard time with understanding how these guys are coming out with such good results.

I have made a cabinet that the frame is made from 7/8" stock. Also it is 1/16" past flush. That seems to work better, but I am not able to finish all of my stock at 7/8". I usually have to finish it down to 3/4". Plus, I can't run it all past flush. That cabinet was made to be in line with a row of cabinets so they will be screwed to one another and you won't see the frame sticking past the side. This cabinet and a few others will be in a position where I need to keep the frames flush with the sides. Plus, the jig is supposed to make it so I can do it that way.

So if anyone has any other suggestions, please feel free to post them (unless of course they are the ones that tell me where to go).
I know most of you guys like this jig, and I can see why. What I don't see is why I'm not getting the same results you guys are.

And again, thank you one and all for all the help. I appreciate the time you are putting into trying to figure this out with me.
Jay
You need one on one Instruction!

IMHO


Good Luck!
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post #39 of 91 Old 07-07-2008, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Lyddon View Post
You need one on one Instruction!

IMHO

Good Luck!
Why, don't you think I know how to read instructions??? If I do as the manual says and I don't get the same results that the manual says I will, is that because I am not reading the manual correctly?
Or maybe you are just volunteering to come give me the instructions I need??? After all, you did say and I quote "I have never used one yet".

And there is no reason to get hostile with me.

IMHO

All others, please don't take this post as a front or hostility against anyone! I am and will always be grateful for the people that do what they can to help. I have received help on many occassions and am looking forward to continuing to do so. I have nothing but respect for the guys in here that put themselves out there to help when they don't have to.

I have a problem and according to the manual, and to the 99% of the guys that have responded, say I shouldn't have. That is why I am in here looking for the help I need. I have done my best to describe exactly what I have done so that you can maybe see what I am doing wrong, IF I am doing something wrong. Again, according to the manual, I am doing everything right. So either everyone is lying about getting the results they claim, or I am doing something not quite right. I personally believe the latter. Not everyone can lie that good.

And I STILL look forward to having you guys helping me figure this out. And just for the record, if there were anyone near me, I would be more then willing to get with them and converse about this and anything else.

Respectfully
Jay
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post #40 of 91 Old 07-07-2008, 11:37 AM
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just a suggestion, but if my screws were coming to close to the frame's face and splitting it, I'd put a washer or 2 on the screw to back it out a 16th or 2 that way you don't lose too much bite on your screw by going to a smaller size

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