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Spangler 12-05-2011 03:44 PM

A good starter table saw
 
I would love to but my new husband a table saw for Christmas. I am pretty low on funds, but I don't want to waste my money on something like a refurb skilsaw for 170 if its no good. Ant suggestions, help would be much appreciated!:smile:

Chaincarver Steve 12-05-2011 03:51 PM

The qualifier "starter" table saw implies that an upgrade will likely be in the future. Generally, with major power tools like that it's best to buy the best you can afford. The work quality will be higher, the user will have to fight it less and, in the long run, it's cheaper to buy better now than to buy then re-buy later.

That's just my opinion but I know others will agree.

JAGWAH 12-05-2011 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 268813)
I would love to but my new husband a table saw for Christmas. I am pretty low on funds, but I don't want to waste my money on something like a refurb skilsaw for 170 if its no good. Ant suggestions, help would be much appreciated!:smile:


I have the saw here that has wheels. It's been used to death in the field by me for the last 4 years, a good saw. The one without the wheels is the same saw but $100 cheaper.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...5yc1vZaqdkZ1aw

While I have a very expensive saw in the shop this saw has worked well. It's very easy to toss in the truck bed and take to the job site.

knotscott 12-05-2011 04:10 PM

That's a very nice gesture on your part :thumbsup: You're smart to not waste your money on that Skil refurb. Refurbs in general can be good investments, but I don't think that particular saw is a good buy.

A good used saw is likely to be your best bet. A good full size cast iron belt drive saw is the way to go IMHO....the full size saws have every advantage except for portability. New full size saws start in the $450 range and go up (Ridgid R4512, Craftsman 21833, Porter Cable PCB270TS, Steel City 35990SS).

It'd be good to list your general geographic location...someone here might have a candidate or know of a good one.

Spangler 12-08-2011 12:09 PM

Thanks!
 
I live in Manchester PA, near Harrisburg. I'm so glad for the thoughts, I am out of my element here!

knotscott 12-08-2011 01:38 PM

Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Here are some examples of full size (27" deep) cast iron contractor saws that can often be had for the same $150 you're looking to spend. These saws have a larger table area...especially in front of the blade, so there's more operating room. They're also much heavier duty, heavier, more stable, more dependable, quieter, more powerful, easier and cheaper to upgrade, easier and more feasible to fix if necessary, and they hold their resale value better. Most will weigh in the 225# to 300# range. It's worth noting that cast iron can rust if not prevented, but is typically easily cleaned up if it's not badly pitted and totally neglected....a little "patina" on an old saw is normal. A good full size used saw will be worth about what you paid for it should you decide to sell it later on....a cheap used portable won't be worth much for resale. Check Craigslist, Ebay, free woodworking classifieds on forums like this one for good used saws.

Here's an older Emerson made Craftsman contractor saw often found used in the $100-$200 range (and can be polished up and painted to look new if he likes):
http://www.triton381.com/images/tablesaw.JPG

Here's a similar slightly newer Emerson made Ridgid contractor saw:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attac...saw-ts3612.jpg

Here's a 10-12 year old Delta contractor saw:
http://js99.net/wood/pics/tablesaw.jpg


Other good brands to consider are Jet, Powermatic, Grizzly, Shop Fox, Bridgewood, Woodtek, Rockwell, and more....most full size contractor saws are very similar. These are all belt drive saws with "induction" motors...most will be hanging off the back of the saw, though some newer hybrid style contractor saws will have an induction motor housed inside the enclosure. These are fairly quiet motors...they just make an audible humming sound, with the blade being responsible for most of the noise. If you inquire about a used contractor saw, be sure it has that type motor and drive system and ask them to run it....if it screams like a circular saw, then it has a direct drive universal motor that isn't as desirable. It's good to take someone along who knows tools to help advise, but a competent woodworker and honest seller will usually take good care of their tools and will be open and honest about the saw.

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoind...ges/9140-E.jpg

In contrast, here's a look at some benchtop and portable saws with plastic enclosures, aluminum or composite tops, flimsy fences, that have direct drive universal motors and sell in the $150 range. They'll weigh 40-70#, are much smaller, less accurate, much louder, less reliable, are less likely to accept standard accessories, and are harder to upgrade....but they will cut wood! They're just not as easy to get good results from, and pose some additional dangers due to their inaccuracies and instabilities.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...30bd02_300.jpg http://www.woodworkerdan.com/images/...ertablesaw.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

Shop Dad 12-08-2011 02:59 PM

Buying used is definitely the way to go to save money, but then you have to go through buying a used table saw, transporting it etc. You might consider giving him a suprise "budget" for him to go pick out a table saw.

We need yocalif who is so great at foraging for deals! In his stead I'll throw some up for you to look at.

http://www.searchtempest.com/ is a great way to search Craig's List. I used it to find some candidates near you.

Here's what Knotscot was talking about, a decent used contractor saw:
http://york.craigslist.org/tls/2710682871.html

Here are some others, all pretty inexpensive:
http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/2741840320.html
http://york.craigslist.org/tls/2696293784.html
http://york.craigslist.org/tls/2673930937.html
http://york.craigslist.org/tls/2704844016.html

knotscott 12-08-2011 03:12 PM

This one Shop Dad listed from Halifax for $150 looks like a very solid deal. The fence is decent...an upgrade from many of the older Craftsman contractor saws, plus it has cast iron extension wings vs stamped steel.

The first one for $250 looks like a decent saw, but it's at least $50 overpriced...I'd offer $175 to $200 if it looks good in person and runs good. It's actually similar to the one linked above, but has steel wings, so is a bit of a downgrade for more money....still a possibility though.

yocalif 12-08-2011 03:25 PM

Thanks Shop Dad for the thumbs up I appreciate it.

First we need a realistic budget?

Are you ok with buying used, so you get most bang for your buck? Some people just won't do it, "my sis is one of those, and so is my bro-in-law", heck they are even snobby about new stuff if it isn't the right brand, look, etc.
2nd we need to know what your expectation is?
•(Do you want a newish saw that requires very little prep to put into service, this is my personal preference when shopping used.
Or sometimes you can find serious steals because the equip wasn't cared for and is being sold way under value and with a little TLC you could have a gem for a steal price. note this would take an experienced person).

If you have a friend that is local and can help you decide that might be useful.


Here are some saws on Craigslist near you:
NEW Craftsman 10" Prof Table Saw - $500 (Mechanicsburg)
I am selling this (NEVER USED) Craftsman Table Saw. It is a professional grade saw with 24" ripping capability. The table top is of cast iron and the weight of the unit is 350 lbs. After getting the saw home I realize it is too large for my small shop.
http://images.craigslist.org/5Q35T65...bc6fb91b03.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/5V45Z65...33ffee1d0b.jpg
PostingID: 2741027450

* I own this same model saw, it is a very nice saw for a starter. Since it is NEW and never used the guy believes he can get almost full price, these saws were regularly on sale for around $500 when Sears was still selling them. The saw cost him about $600, but he got a full warranty, you won't get a warranty so I would offer $350 and be prepared to go to $400. PS he will tell you it has a mobile base it is worth extra, the base is important for a garage shop, but stick to your guns.

JET JWTS-10JF TABLE SAW - $300 (Hempfield)
PostingID: 2730026654

Grizzly 10" Table Saw - $350
PostingID: 2667944511

10" Sears Professional Table Saw - $700 (Boonsboro Md)
10 inch Professional table saw, 3 years old, Excellent condition,
it has casters, so it is movable, Must Sell!
http://images.craigslist.org/5Q25W35...07b0e71c3d.jpg
PostingID: 2650815619

*I just bought this same model saw about 5 or 6 weeks ago for $400, with $200 of extras for $400. These go all the time for around $400-600 (sometimes even slightly less). The fence alone is worth $300. I would offer $400, no more than $500. The ad is old so may already be sold.

10 INCH BELT DRIVE TABLE SAW - $175 (Sykesville)
PostingID: 2741119238
If your budget is small this might be a ok starting point, looks ok, can't see much rust, offer $100-125

Table Saw - $300 (Browns Mills)
PostingID: 2728554937

NOTE I'm a newbie too, my only working experience is with the craftsman 22114 and 22124, I would recommend both. However generally you are safe buying the brand name others have recommended in this thread. It is easier picking that cost $500 or more because someone usually on this forum has had experience with that brand/model. Where it gets confused is the lower end, trying to find the gem that can get a newbie by until he/she is ready to step up to something better. Thus my listing above starts with saws that cost more, yet still are considered on the budget end when they were new. However they still offer performance most hobby wood workers need. Also I stayed away from the portable saws, while they are great for the right application, most on this forum use either a contractor, hybrid, or cabinet style table saw. And like cooking it isn't the pan or tool that makes the meal it's the chef, so any of those three styles of saws in the hands of someone who takes their time and cares/learns will do a great job.

PS, knotscott is WWT expert on the different models, no joke, he gives excellent advice..
PS. before making an offer on a particular model, post here and those with experience will give you a good starting point for a price.

Shop Dad 12-08-2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 268813)
Any suggestions, help would be much appreciated!


You asked! :laughing:

GeorgeC 12-08-2011 03:44 PM

The best advise I can give yous is DO NOT BUY YOUR HUSBAND A SAW. Give him an envelope with a note telling him he is to get the saw that HE WANTS within a specified budget.

He wil be the person using the saw. He is the one that knows best what saw he needs to fulfil what he wants to do with it.

George

yocalif 12-08-2011 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeC (Post 269898)
The best advise I can give yous is DO NOT BUY YOUR HUSBAND A SAW. Give him an envelope with a note telling him he is to get the saw that HE WANTS within a specified budget.

He wil be the person using the saw. He is the one that knows best what saw he needs to fulfil what he wants to do with it.

George

Actually pretty good advice. Unless that person is like my wife who takes that money and buys others gifts, she is so hard to buy for unless we get her something to wear.

woodnthings 12-08-2011 06:19 PM

The OP came here for advice
 
and she got some very good advice so far.
Whether she should buy the saw or give hubby the money is best decided by her, or by them together since she is a novice in the tool area. It will be difficult to return....:yes: it may be a lemon...:blink: and it may cause issues down the road. :eek:

This might work.... pick out the best saw on the used market and plan a joint road trip to check it out. At the time to make the purchase she can come up with the envelope..."surprise" ...:thumbsup:

I have this saw, a hybrid, and paid $500 new, on close out. It has everything you could possibly want...power, large table, out feed support, accurate fence (one of the best), and good dust collection. "must sell" means offer less...... However, for the price I don't consider this a "starter" saw. You could use this saw for 15 years and be very satisfied with it. Knotscott's Emerson contractor type is more in your price range. If you can find an older 12" Craftsman motorized saw, built in under the table motor, grab it! 220 Volts only however. They are a great saw. The last one I found was $186.00 on Craig's List.

10" Sears Professional Table Saw - $700 (Boonsboro Md)
10 inch Professional table saw, 3 years old, Excellent condition,
it has casters, so it is movable, Must Sell!
http://images.craigslist.org/5Q25W35...07b0e71c3d.jpg

Dominick 12-08-2011 08:17 PM

Wow yocalif that was the longest post i ever read. But thanks, good points.

drwood143 12-08-2011 08:31 PM

I have a Craftsman 10" table saw Model # 113.298750- this is in very good condition and has a brand new blade. It has a heavy cast iron worktop and all parts included. Asking 250.00 you must pickup or arrange shipping.

yocalif 12-09-2011 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominick (Post 269971)
Wow yocalif that was the longest post i ever read. But thanks, good points.

Why waste a good paragraph when it can be said in a sentence.
Unfortunately I'm a paragraph man. Often many paragraphs.

WoodySouth 12-09-2011 06:17 PM

Yep
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaincarver Steve (Post 268816)
The qualifier "starter" table saw implies that an upgrade will likely be in the future. Generally, with major power tools like that it's best to buy the best you can afford. The work quality will be higher, the user will have to fight it less and, in the long run, it's cheaper to buy better now than to buy then re-buy later.

That's just my opinion but I know others will agree.

You are quite right, always buy the best you can first or you will be doing it again later.

Al B Thayer 12-09-2011 07:47 PM

New guy here. I'm with the other guy, let him buy it. Wrap up a piece of wood and write on it, "cut on new table saw". Buy the best saw for the work he wants to do. Go in debt for it. It's the main stay in the shop and you both will never regret it. Pros can't use cheap tools and neither can we.

Spangler 12-11-2011 02:35 PM

drwood, where are you located? Thank you all so much, my husband will be getting this link for this great forum as well! My budget is probably maxed at 400. My other concerns are these, table vs contractor. He will be using the garage, which also houses both cars on snowy days. With the limited space - portability to stick in the corner is a must. We don't really have an area big enough to keep it out permanently. I think after all of your advice I probably have a handle on what he would like. I love the idea of the wood with a note for him to pick it out! Again, thanks so much for all of the advice!!

Spangler 12-11-2011 02:49 PM

Thanks again
 
:thumbsup: I am not opposed at all to a used saw, I would rather the quality gently used than a new cheaper saw. He feels the same, so thanks again and the best of the season to all of you!!

knotscott 12-11-2011 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 270733)
...My other concerns are these, table vs contractor....

These are all table saws....This article will help you understand the various classifications. A "contractor saw" is a full size (usually 27" deep x 40" wide including the width of the wings) stationary saw with a belt drive induction motor, but some of the newer contractor saws move the belt drive induction motor inside the enclosure, more like a hybrid saw. The term "contractor" saw is a bit of a misnomer, because contractors don't usually use them anymore, since the invention of portable jobsite saws a couple of decades ago. They were originally developed about 60 years ago as a somewhat portable alternative to a 500# cabinet saw, but at 250# contractor saws are still pretty big to move from jobsite to jobsite, however they'll roll around the shop nicely on a mobile base.

Full size contractor saws have numerous performance advantages if you can find a way to fit one in your garage. If not, one of the better portable jobsite saws like the Ridgid R4510, Bosch 4001, or DeWalt are typically the best of the bunch. I think you'd be better off skipping any of the cheaper benchtop saws and benchtop saws on leg stands if possible.

Spangler 12-12-2011 12:20 PM

where are you located?

woodnthings 12-12-2011 12:26 PM

Where are you drwood?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drwood143 (Post 269981)
I have a Craftsman 10" table saw Model # 113.298750- this is in very good condition and has a brand new blade. It has a heavy cast iron worktop and all parts included. Asking 250.00 you must pickup or arrange shipping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 270733)
drwood, where are you located? Thank you all so much, my husband will be getting this link for this great forum as well! My budget is probably maxed at 400. My other concerns are these, table vs contractor. He will be using the garage, which also houses both cars on snowy days. With the limited space - portability to stick in the corner is a must. We don't really have an area big enough to keep it out permanently. I think after all of your advice I probably have a handle on what he would like. I love the idea of the wood with a note for him to pick it out! Again, thanks so much for all of the advice!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 271020)
where are you located?

You mean drwood? :blink: bill
Send him a "visitor message" and he will get an email notification and then return to the forum

Spangler 12-15-2011 11:44 AM

Hi knotscott! They say you are an expert, what do you think? RYOBI 10" TABLE SAW / BT-3000 Precision Cutting System - $350 This gentleman seems sincere. Was thinking about offering 300??

Mandres 12-15-2011 12:45 PM

The Ryobi bt3000 is sort of an interesting saw design. There is an active community built around this model at www.bt3central.com . It could make a good first saw if that one is in good shape. I would probably offer $250 tops.

knotscott 12-15-2011 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 272214)
Hi knotscott! They say you are an expert, what do you think? RYOBI 10" TABLE SAW / BT-3000 Precision Cutting System - $350 This gentleman seems sincere. Was thinking about offering 300??

The BT is kind of a neat saw for the right person. Folks seem to love it or hate it, but it is capable of good cuts if setup correctly, which is something that needs to be learned. It's a little smaller than a full size saw, lighter, has a belt drive universal motor vs belt drive induction motor of a full size saw, and has a neat sliding miter table. Unfortunately, the gentleman is asking too much for it IMO. The newer updated BT3100 sold in the $300-$350 range when it was being made. The only current version still available is the Craftsman 21829...still made by Ryobi, but is on a rollaway stand and comes with a built in router table....sells new for ~ $500 ($444 today) with warranty and return privileges if it doesn't work out, which I think is a better deal than $350 for a 10-15 year old used one with no warranty. There's a website called BT3Central.com dedicated to this saw....they have all the answers on this saw and is a great support group for users. They'd probably agree with me on the price of this used one, but it wouldn't hurt to ask their opinions. :thumbsup:

edit: basically I agree with Mandres!

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...829-large.jpeg

yocalif 12-15-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 272214)
Hi knotscott! They say you are an expert, what do you think? RYOBI 10" TABLE SAW / BT-3000 Precision Cutting System - $350 This gentleman seems sincere. Was thinking about offering 300??

Hi again Spangler, I haven't had any experience with the BT3000, the first saw I bought was the Ryobi BTS21, admittedly the little brother of the BTS3000, and not a good replacement for the BTS20. Having said that I knew after the first cut that the BTS21 wasn't the TS for the stuff I had planned, (building shelving in garage, cabinets in garage, at least one bath vanity, outdoor furniture, planters, some simple furniture pieces and finally cabinets for the kitchen. Which doesn't include many other projects I have dreamed up. One of the main issues with the Ryobi saws, if your husband starts to take a real interest in building things, he will want to add accessories or jigs that any standard table saw would use, and he can't, notice the BT3000 has replaced the miter slot with a sliding table. The sliding table is nice for small pieces but as soon as you need to cut something large it becomes an obstacle. The fence will frustrate him because every time he has to move it he will have to calibrate it for accuracy. Plus the weight of that setup makes it difficult to cut large pieces, imagine trying cut a half sheet of plywood let alone a full sheet, on that saw.
Note that some people are very ingenious and can figure out how to make such a saw work for them in a variety of applications, however the extra effort & time necessary trying to figure out how to make something "get by" also produces lots of frustration, and that time and energy could have been better used actually building something easily with the right tool.

$400 you should be able to get a decent used real table saw, very stable, very expandable with either home made jigs and lots of store bought accessories, plus they are the standard for both hobby woodworkers and pros.

knotscott 12-15-2011 03:33 PM

It's worth noting that the BT series is very different from the direct drive Ryobi saws and similar direct drive saws due in part to being belt driven, which helps with accuracy and smoothness. TTI/Ryobi also made the most recent Ridgid contractor saws, which are also very different from other Ryobi saws. Most owners find the BT's fence to be pretty good, though perhaps not as robust as something like a steel Biesemeyer, as I'll occasionally read about someone breaking the clip off the end (it's easily repaired though). Yocalif's points about size and miter slots are valid, though I think some of the BT configurations have an optional miter slot available. The size and weight restrictions of a smaller saw remain, but they are a tad bigger and heavier than other Ryobi direct drive benchtops and portables. I personally don't find them as appealing as a full size traditional cast iron saw largely for those reasons, but it's hard for me to argue with the passion those that have mastered it's unique features have for the saw, which is one reason I think it's at least worth a look. DBHost has a version of one of these and usually weighs in on them....BTW where's he been?

Spangler 12-17-2011 11:26 AM

Where are you? I would love to take a look at it!

Spangler 12-17-2011 11:35 AM

I also was talking to this guy about his, he is asking me 450 currently, still a bit out of my reach but?......DeWalt table saw w/ rolling stand - $550 (listed $ 629 at Home Depot)

knotscott 12-17-2011 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 272911)
I also was talking to this guy about his, he is asking me 450 currently, still a bit out of my reach but?......DeWalt table saw w/ rolling stand - $550 (listed $ 629 at Home Depot)

Seems pretty high to me... $350 would be more appropriate IMO. That's a portable jobsite saw...still a pretty small, but if that's what suits the need, I'd also look into the Ridgid R4510.

Canarywood 12-17-2011 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spangler (Post 272911)
I also was talking to this guy about his, he is asking me 450 currently, still a bit out of my reach but?......DeWalt table saw w/ rolling stand - $550 (listed $ 629 at Home Depot)


You can buy that saw new at buy.com for $585.00 shipped.

drwood143 12-19-2011 08:59 PM

I am located in Bethlehem,PA

anturing84 04-08-2018 02:18 PM

Ryobi Experiment!
 
I know Christmas is over and the original poster probably got her husband a table saw already, but for anyone else reading the thread, I'm going to buy one of these Ryobi table saws next month. I'll post here again to let you all know how it went!

anturing84 04-08-2018 02:24 PM

Not sure if I should've started a new thread for this... :/


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